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Thread: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear Arms?

  1. #21
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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I think its the other way around. If someone tries to stifle freedom of speech and we can kill them we can protect that right as well as others.

    when an oppressive government has a monopoly on firepower, all of your rights are subject to its whim
    Or we can just elect people who won't do that by openly talking about and forming parties/policies that remove those who are restricting our freedom.

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

    ...and of course, the other way around.

    Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

    and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?

    It's a dumb question.

    It's very much like asking which blade of a pair of scissors is more important.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

    ...and of course, the other way around.

    Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

    and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?
    What's more important in your car - the gas pedal or the brake or is it the steering wheel?

    It depends on what you need right then. When I'm driving down the interstate on a full tank of gas, it seems like the brake is unnecessary. The steering wheel can get me out of just about any problem I face. But, if things go wrong or if I have to get off the interstate, I need the brake. And, when I need it, I really need it. It doesn't matter how fast the gas pedal got me going or how well the steering works, if you need the brake pedal, it better be there and it better work.
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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

    ...and of course, the other way around.

    Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

    and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?
    If the people are unarmed what will stop the government from taking away your other rights? Scream I have free speech while armed men arrest you or shoot you? Write a angry letter to a politician while you are in your jail cell for saying something the officials dislike? Free speech and the right to bear arms are equally important.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 12-04-11 at 10:44 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Or we can just elect people who won't do that by openly talking about and forming parties/policies that remove those who are restricting our freedom.
    If the people are unarmed and the government wishes to take away other rights wouldn't they take away your ability to form another party or right to vote.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If the people are unarmed what will stop the government from taking away your other rights? Scream I have free speech while armed men arrest you or shoot you? Write a angry letter to a politician while you are in your jail cell for saying something the officials dislike? Free speech and the right to bear arms are equally important.
    this appears to be a strawman, as most protests over the last 40 years in the USA have not been armed.

  7. #27
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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this appears to be a strawman, as most protests over the last 40 years in the USA have not been armed.
    It's not a strawman - james isn't talking about protests. He's saying your ability to speak can't protect you against armed agressors. But, your ability to shoot someone can protect your right to speak. "Scream"/"letter" = forms of speech. Protests are also a form of speech.

    james then also said, essentially, that free speech can protect your right to bear arms - except against armed agressors.
    Last edited by GreenvilleGrows; 12-04-11 at 03:02 PM.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If the people are unarmed and the government wishes to take away other rights wouldn't they take away your ability to form another party or right to vote.
    Sure and they would also take away one's right to bear arms. The fact is that if a government is taking away any of the fundamental rights, then they are likely going to try to take away all rights. However, if I had to choose between the right to free speech and the right to bear arms, I would choose speech because I could just get weapons on the black market and hide them with relative ease if they were necessary. But in order to organize freely, I would need freedom of speech.

    The right to bear arms is important, but freedom of speech threatens tyranny more than weapons does simply because freedom of speech always carries the threat of widespread dissent and organization. I think it would be much easier to develop an underground weapons trade than it would be to develop an underground organized revolution.

    Also, I'd be much more likely to accidentally say something illegal, than to accidentally carry a weapon.

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Sure and they would also take away one's right to bear arms. The fact is that if a government is taking away any of the fundamental rights, then they are likely going to try to take away all rights. However, if I had to choose between the right to free speech and the right to bear arms, I would choose speech because I could just get weapons on the black market and hide them with relative ease if they were necessary. But in order to organize freely, I would need freedom of speech.

    The right to bear arms is important, but freedom of speech threatens tyranny more than weapons does simply because freedom of speech always carries the threat of widespread dissent and organization. I think it would be much easier to develop an underground weapons trade than it would be to develop an underground organized revolution.

    Also, I'd be much more likely to accidentally say something illegal, than to accidentally carry a weapon.
    Truly an interesting answer. Nice.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

    many rights & freedoms have been defended without the use of firearms.

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