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Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear Arms?

Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

jamesrage said:
If the people are unarmed what will stop the government from taking away your other rights? Scream I have free speech while armed men arrest you or shoot you? Write a angry letter to a politician while you are in your jail cell for saying something the officials dislike? Free speech and the right to bear arms are equally important.
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this appears to be a strawman, as most protests over the last 40 years in the USA have not been armed.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
this appears to be a strawman, as most protests over the last 40 years in the USA have not been armed.
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It's not a strawman - james isn't talking about protests. He's saying your ability to speak can't protect you against armed agressors. But, your ability to shoot someone can protect your right to speak. "Scream"/"letter" = forms of speech. Protests are also a form of speech.

james then also said, essentially, that free speech can protect your right to bear arms - except against armed agressors.
 
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Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

jamesrage said:
If the people are unarmed and the government wishes to take away other rights wouldn't they take away your ability to form another party or right to vote.
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Sure and they would also take away one's right to bear arms. The fact is that if a government is taking away any of the fundamental rights, then they are likely going to try to take away all rights. However, if I had to choose between the right to free speech and the right to bear arms, I would choose speech because I could just get weapons on the black market and hide them with relative ease if they were necessary. But in order to organize freely, I would need freedom of speech.

The right to bear arms is important, but freedom of speech threatens tyranny more than weapons does simply because freedom of speech always carries the threat of widespread dissent and organization. I think it would be much easier to develop an underground weapons trade than it would be to develop an underground organized revolution.

Also, I'd be much more likely to accidentally say something illegal, than to accidentally carry a weapon.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

theplaydrive said:
Sure and they would also take away one's right to bear arms. The fact is that if a government is taking away any of the fundamental rights, then they are likely going to try to take away all rights. However, if I had to choose between the right to free speech and the right to bear arms, I would choose speech because I could just get weapons on the black market and hide them with relative ease if they were necessary. But in order to organize freely, I would need freedom of speech.

The right to bear arms is important, but freedom of speech threatens tyranny more than weapons does simply because freedom of speech always carries the threat of widespread dissent and organization. I think it would be much easier to develop an underground weapons trade than it would be to develop an underground organized revolution.

Also, I'd be much more likely to accidentally say something illegal, than to accidentally carry a weapon.
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Truly an interesting answer. Nice.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

many rights & freedoms have been defended without the use of firearms.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
this appears to be a strawman, as most protests over the last 40 years in the USA have not been armed.
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I never said the protesters were armed. I do not think any has said the protesters were armed.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

While both are rather important, if I had to chose one it would be freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech allows constructive criticism, which is the best thing ever. It allows governments to know where/what they are doing wrong, or just people in general. If freedom of speech was not allowed, constructive criticisms would plummet due to fear of being jailed. While guns are good, being able to speak intelligently without fear is the road to success.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

And also, having guns and no free speech would just cause violence everywhere. People would fight for their freedom of speech using their guns, and so on.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

I see this is probably another bait thread, but is astounded that people actually choose preference and get baited.
Those two are both equally important constitutional laws in the US. Not in the rest of the world, but in the US (as I assume the setting of the debate to be), both are equally important
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
many rights & freedoms have been defended without the use of firearms.
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And many more times they have been. What's the point?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

theplaydrive said:
Really? Because I don't have arms and I haven't been shot.
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If you don't have arms, how are you typing?

(Sorry, had to do it.)
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Henrin said:
That is so backwards. Without arms you will be shot when you open your mouth.
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Not in the thought experiment of this thread though. It garauntees one or the other, but not both.

Which is why, in the real world, we don't make such a choice. We choose both.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

...and of course, the other way around.

Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?
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False choice, there is no "OR".
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

You cannot chose one or the other. ALL civil liberties are equally important. In a courtroom however, it really doesn't matter what we think. The U.S. Supreme Court has established the Preferred Position Doctrine, which means that if faced with a case pitting the two amendments against each other and forced to chose, would side with 1st amendment rights over all other civil liberties.
 
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If I had to choose. I would picked arms. If Im arm then I can protect my ablility to speak freely.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

If you take my 2A away I can only use my voice to protect the other rights. If you take 1A away and keep the 2A I will not only get the 1A rights back but keep all the others. Because of this I always thought the 1A & 2A should have been the other way around. :peace
 
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Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

I think it's very interesting that people seem to think it's a quick and immediate leap into oppressive dictatorship if guns are somehow removed from society.

Reflects something rather sad and unfortunate about America.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Dragonfly said:
I think it's very interesting that people seem to think it's a quick and immediate leap into oppressive dictatorship if guns are somehow removed from society.

Reflects something rather sad and unfortunate about America.
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especially considering that some nations that are more armed than the USA, have less freedom.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Based on a very quick google search, the UK appears to have some fairly strict gun laws.

I don't think they're considered to be an evil, rogue nation led by devil-chanting dictators and nefarious types.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Dragonfly said:
Based on a very quick google search, the UK appears to have some fairly strict gun laws.

I don't think they're considered to be an evil, rogue nation led by devil-chanting dictators and nefarious types.
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plus the fact that many believe that lots o' guns= more safety.

well, the USA has more than 300 million guns, and we have a much higher crime rate than most of the industrialized Western world.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
plus the fact that many believe that lots o' guns= more safety.

well, the USA has more than 300 million guns, and we have a much higher crime rate than most of the industrialized Western world.
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I believe that there's also plenty of stats to show we have the highest per-capita prison population in western cultures too.

Seems odd doesn't it? Or does it? :mrgreen:
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Dragonfly said:
I believe that there's also plenty of stats to show we have the highest per-capita prison population in western cultures too.

Seems odd doesn't it? Or does it? :mrgreen:
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highest murder rate. higher prison rate. & highest per-capita number of guns.

how does this work again? ;)
 
Aww silly anti-gun people.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

cpgrad08 said:
Aww silly anti-gun people.

Cpl USMC MILITARY POLICE K-9 Unit. VIA taptalk.
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care to explain the strange corrolation between America's high gun-ownership rate, its high crime rate, and its high imprisonment rate?

looks like: more guns= more crime= less safe society.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
highest murder rate. higher prison rate. & highest per-capita number of guns.

how does this work again? ;)
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Murder rate is likely related to guns since guns make it easier to kill. But that would be a guess, and it's not to say that overall we suffer higher violent crime in general. Highest per capita number of guns is of course related to the fact that we allow guns; so that's a no-brainer. Highest prison rate is because the government loves to throw people in jail and we have laws against pretty much everything. That one isn't so much related to guns as much as it's related to overzealous government and its use of force against the People.
 
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