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Thread: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Part III

    And one other thing. As a direct refutation on Bayer's work, the book, "American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History" was published 2007. In it 17 APA members who participated in the 1973 APA meeting, are interviewed and discuss what really happened and what the attitudes towards homosexuality was like, at the time. These are people who were actually there, not someone like Bayer, who just reported on this. Here is a description:

    Product Description
    Interviews and first-hand accounts of an historic decision that affected the mental health profession—and American society and culture Through the personal accounts of those who were there, American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History examines the 1973 decision by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to remove homosexuality from its diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (DSM). This unique book includes candid, one-on-one interviews with key mental health professionals who played a role in the APA’s decision, those who helped organize gay, lesbian, and bisexual psychiatrists after the decision, and others who have made significant contributions in this area within the mental health field.
    American Psychiatry and Homosexuality presents an insider’s view of how homosexuality was removed from the DSM, the gradual organization of gay and lesbian psychiatrists within the APA, and the eventual formation of the APA-allied Association of Gay & Lesbian Psychiatrists (AGLP). The book profiles 17 individuals, both straight and gay, who made important contributions to organized psychiatry and the mental health needs of lesbian and gay patients, and illustrates the role that gay and lesbian psychiatrists would later play in the mental health field when they no longer had to hide their identities.
    Individuals profiled in American Psychiatry and Homosexuality include:

    Dr. John Fryer, who disguised his identity to speak before the APA’s annual meeting in 1972 on the discrimination gay psychiatrists faced in their own profession
    Dr. Charles Silverstein, who saw the diagnosis of homosexuality as a means of social control
    Dr. Lawrence Hartmann, who helped reform the APA and later served as its President in 1991-92
    Dr. Robert J. Campbell, who helped persuade the APA’s Nomenclature Committee to hear scientific data presented by gay activists
    Dr. Judd Marmor, an early psychoanalytic critic of theories that pathologized homosexuality
    Dr. Robert Spitzer, who chaired the APA’s Nomenclature Committee
    Dr. Frank Rundle, who helped organize the first meeting of what would become the APA Caucus of Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Psychiatrists
    Dr. David Kessler, AGLP President from 1980-82
    Dr. Nanette Gartrell, a pioneer of feminist issues within the APA
    Dr. Stuart Nichols, President of the AGLP in 1983-84 and a founding member of the Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists of New York (GLPNY)
    Dr. Emery Hetrick, a founding member of both AGLP and GLPNY
    Dr. Bertram Schaffner, who was instrumental in providing group psychotherapy for physicians with AIDS
    Dr. Martha Kirkpatrick, a long-time leader in psychiatry and psychoanalysis, both as a woman and an “out” lesbian
    Dr. Richard Isay, the first openly gay psychoanalyst in the American Psychoanalytic Association
    Dr. Richard Pillard, best known for studying the incidence of homosexuality in families of twins
    Dr. Edward Hanin, former Speaker of the APA Assembly
    Dr. Ralph Roughton, the first openly gay Training and Supervising Psychoanalyst to be recognized within the American and International Psychoanalytic Associations
    American Psychiatry and Homosexuality presents the personal, behind-the-scenes accounts of a major historical event in psychiatry and medicine and of a decision that has affected society and culture ever since. This is an essential resource for mental health educators, supervisors, and professionals; historians; and LGBT readers in general.
    Amazon.com: American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History: Jack Drescher, Joseph P. Merlino: Books
    Some quotes and anectodes from the book:

    By contrast, these first-person accounts provide corrective insider views of the process. Several speak of the depressing psychiatric attitudes prior to 1973. Lawrence Hartmann recalls, "The few analysts who wrote about gay people tended to describe them as nasty psychopaths, close to psychosis. I am not making this up!"
    Judd Marmor recalls the view that "homosexuals were inherently seriously mentally disturbed, irresponsible, and completely driven by needs over which they had no control." They were supposedly "emotionally immature, deceptive, impulsive, unreliable, and incapable of truly loving."
    ...gay activist Ron Gold arranged for gays to meet with the APA's Committee on Nomenclature where they laid out evidence from studies supporting gay mental health. Robert Jean Campbell recalls, "They had a lot of data that I had never seen. I don't know where they got it, but I was really overwhelmed by the data."
    Campbell argued that the committee should take its own look at the scientific evidence about homosexuality.
    Spitzer recalls thinking, "Is there something that they (other mental disorders) all share that I can argue does not apply to homosexuality?" His conclusion was that people with other conditions "were usually not very happy about it. They had distress or...in some way the condition interfered with their overall functioning."
    Spitzer continues, "If you accepted what the activists said, clearly here were homosexuals who were not distressed by being homosexual. Instead, they might be distressed by how people reacted to their being gay."
    Cure-therapists, mostly psychoanalysts such as Irving Bieber and the zealously homophobic Charles Socarides (whose son is openly gay), were furious and began gathering signatures demanding a referendum to overturn the board's decision. Edward Hanin recalls, "The controversy was led by people who essentially said this was politics intruding into science. It wasn't. The APA Board of Trustees had reviewed very carefully the evidence related to homosexuality."
    Judd Marmor agrees: "The fact is that the decision to remove homosexuality...was not based on gay political pressure but on scientific correctness and only after a full year of exploratory hearings and study of the issue. The so-called 'politics' surrounding the decision was subsequently instilled into the process by opponents."
    Robert Jean Campbell comments, "I thought the only reason they were worried was that they wouldn't have any patients if this went through. People would no longer go to them for something that was no longer a disease."
    Dr. John Fryer, M.D., a psychiatrist who in 1972 spoke at a psychiatry panel on homosexuality, appearing as “Dr. H. Anonymous,” disguising his true physical identity—and even his voice. In those days, to come out as a gay psychiatrist meant a ruined career.
    I would take the word of those who were there, rather than that of a reseracher-reporter, any day.

    I hope this has been helpful and cleared up a lot of misconceptions. I do not believe that those on the opposite side of this issue will change their mind because of this information. Prejudice and bigotry can rarely altered, even in the light of irrefutable evidence. Thing is, regardless of whether they believe it or not, they are wrong. And that is factual.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    As you can see in the last post, these are comments from folks who were actually there. Far more accurate account of anything that Pat offered.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    And, one more piece of information. All of Pat's posts were taken from a "book" written by Ryan Sorba... a member of the Young Americans for Freedom and completely moronic anti-gay bigot. Some of Pat's paragraphs are plagiarized, word for word from Sorba's "book". Sorba was booed off the stage of the 2010 Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) for making bigoted anti-gay comments and denouncing the Conservative Political Action Conference for allowing GOProud, an organization representing conservatives gays, lesbians, and transgendereds. Because of his comments, 22 groups, including the Heritage Foundation and The Family Research Council (James Dobson's group) pulled out of the CPAC. If Dobson's group left because of Sorba's comments, we can easily identify how bigoted and idiotic they were... as are all of what Sorba states... hence the irrelevancy of Pat's posts. Also, one of the chapters of The Young Americans For Freedom is considered a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Founder David Franke has denounced the group that he helped found as being extremist and having nothing to do with his original group.

    Clearly, with all of this information, including the information in my posts, we can see that the post made by Pat, citing Ryan Sorba's work are worthless and irrelevant anti-gay propaganda, having neither credibility or validity.

    Information used in this destructive rebuttal:

    The American Conservative » Young Americans for Foolishness
    Young Americans for Freedom - SourceWatch
    Have Gays Found Their Place in the GOP? - CBS News
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Pat, was it necessary to copy&paste that much? A couple of your links were broken, so I assume it's from an old post. I think it would have been much more compelling to make a concise, brief summary of your argument--or even boil down why you think the evidence that homosexuality doesn't correlate with mental distress or illness is wrong?

    Did it ever occur to you that previously every patient being "treated" for homosexuality was already in mental distress due to issues not relating to heir sexuality? Either they were mental patients, in therapy, in military prison awaiting dishonorable discharge, in jail or already going through emotional trauma. If you lived in a society that forced you to hide a trait, like your religion, you'd be diagnosed as paranoid by a quack doctor too.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would take the word of those who were there, rather than that of a reseracher-reporter, any day.

    I hope this has been helpful and cleared up a lot of misconceptions. I do not believe that those on the opposite side of this issue will change their mind because of this information. Prejudice and bigotry can rarely altered, even in the light of irrefutable evidence. Thing is, regardless of whether they believe it or not, they are wrong. And that is factual.
    Thanks for absolutely destroying his massive dump. Even if it doesn't change his mind, it was good reading.
    Last edited by joe six-pack; 03-20-11 at 03:24 AM.
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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Quote Originally Posted by joe six-pack View Post
    Pat, was it necessary to copy&paste that much? A couple of your links were broken, so I assume it's from an old post. I think it would have been much more compelling to make a concise, brief summary of your argument--or even boil down why you think the evidence that homosexuality doesn't correlate with mental distress or illness is wrong?

    Did it ever occur to you that previously every patient being "treated" for homosexuality was already in mental distress due to issues not relating to heir sexuality? Either they were mental patients, in therapy, in military prison awaiting dishonorable discharge, in jail or already going through emotional trauma. If you lived in a society that forced you to hide a trait, like your religion, you'd be diagnosed as paranoid by a quack doctor too.
    His post was taken word for word, in parts from Ryan Sorba's book... a "book" that makes many of the logical errors and distorts/misrepresents information on homosexuality just as most virtualent anti-gay bigots do. Your comments are just one of a multitude of errors in Pat's comments.

    Thanks for absolutely destroying his massive dump. Even if it doesn't change his mind, it was good reading.
    Facts and logic always trump lying propaganda. Folks who post that crap make my job easy. Thanks for the comment.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

  6. #1316
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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    CaptianCourtesy claims that all the info I presented was from Bayer's book and further claims that it was taken out of context, which is simply a repeat of what homosexual activists claim....yet doesn't specify anything more. CC may want to read Bayer's book more carefully, especially the first few pages.
    To say Bayer wasn't there is and unfounded claim, for the bullying and coercion from homoactivists took place over the course of a few years and at several conventions. Maybe CC's bias is showing? Does any of the words convey Bayer's happiness with the way the decision was made? Not. Bayer, though, could have written his book in a less confusing manner. Sometimes he seems to play both sides. I thought I'd add these other words Bayer wrote just to clarify my point: "America's psychiatrists were called to vote upon the question of whether homosexuality ought to be considered a mental disease. The entire process, from the first confrontations organized by gay demonstrators at psychiatric conventions to the referendum demanded by orthodox psychiatrists, seemed to violate the most basic expectations about how questions of science should be resolved. Instead of being engaged in a sober consideration of data, psychiatrists were swept up in a political controversy. The American Psychiatric Association had fallen victim to the disorder of a tumultuous era, when disruptive conflicts threatened to politicize every aspect of American social life. A furious egalitarianism that challenged every instance of authority had compelled psychiatric experts to negotiate the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals themselves."

    Sure sounds like Bayer thinks negotiating the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals makes about as much sense as negotiating the pathological status of (say) schizophrenia with schizophrenics or sociopathy with sociopaths. (I'm not comparing homosexuality with schizophrenia or sociopathy. Just illustrating a point.) Also, do you believe that Bayer believes psychological illnesses, no matter how seemingly extreme or bizarre they are to everyday people, do NOT exist in reality, that they are ALL merely socio/political constructs? If he does believe that I would find his position untenable, to say the least.

    Could you explain to me how a female mind in a male body is a disorder but a homosexual mind in a heterosexual body is NOT a disorder? It's pretty obvious that, just like a male mind in a female body and a female mind in a male body are disorders, so a homosexual mind in a heterosexual body is a disorder (which the APA for decades used to logically consider it before caving). If you do some research you'll find the APA actually ignored one of its own criteria when it "normalized" homosexuality. It's decision is clearly irrational. But what the real issue is, is whether the APA's decision was rational. I maintain that it doesn't make sense (except, perhaps, from a political standpoint). Those people who truly value logic and science know that homosexuality is a disorder and that it shouldn't have been removed from the APA's official list of psychological disorders.

    Captain Courtesy tries to frame my information as only based out of Bayer's book at the same time choosing to ignore all the admissions documented by homosexual activists in their very own pro-homosexual articles and journals. CaptainCourtesy simply repeats the homosexual activist talking points and then proceed to copy and paste the previous info he/she already posted.

    Evidence of countless studies indicates that homosexual relationships are not only radically different from heterosexual couples, but also associated with much higher pathologies in the following in several key respects:

    - duration of relationship
    - promiscuity
    - relationship commitment
    - number of children being raised
    - health risks
    - rates of intimate partner violence
    - psych problems

    Here is just a handful of the countless amount of studies:

    - National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2001)
    - Current Population Reports: U.S. Census Bureau (2002)
    - Robert Gebeloff and Mary Jo Patterson, "Married and Gay Couples Are Not All that Different" Times-Picayune (November 22, 2003).
    - Matthew D. Bramlett and William D. Mosher, "First Marriage Dissolution, Divorce and Remarriage: United States," Advance Data, National Center for Health Statistics (May 31, 2001):
    - Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration of Marriages and Divorces: 1996" Current Population Reports, P70-80, U.S. Census Bureau, Washington, D.C. (February 2002): 5.
    - "Largest Gay Study Examines 2004 Relationships," GayWire Latest Breaking Releases, glcensus.org - gl census Resources and Information. This website is for sale!.
    - Adrian Brune, "City Gays Skip Long-term Relationships: Study Says," Washington Blade (February 27, 04): 12.
    - Maria Xiridou, et al, "The Contribution of Steady and Casual Partnerships to the Incidence of HIV Infection among Homosexual Men in Amsterdam," AIDS 17 (2003): 1031.
    - M. Pollak, "Male Homosexuality," in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, ed. P. Aries and A. Bejin, translated by Anthony Forster (New York, NY: B. Blackwell, 1985): 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality (Northvale, New Jersey: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991): 124, 125.
    - M. Saghir and E. Robins, Male and Female Homosexuality (Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1973): 225; L. A. Peplau and H. Amaro, "Understanding Lesbian Relationships," in Homosexuality:Social, Psychological, and Biological Issues, ed. J. Weinrich and W. Paul (Beverly Hills: Sage, 1982).
    - Michael W. Wiederman, "Extramarital Sex: Prevalence and Correlates in a National Survey," Journal of Sex Research 34 (1997): 170.
    - E. O. Laumann et al., The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States (Chicago:University of Chicago Press, 1994 ): 216.
    - "Sexual Habits of Americans Have Changed Dramatically in Ten Years: New National Survey Finds Both Men and Women More Committed and Caring" PR Newswire (August 4, 1994).
    - A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 309; See also A. P. Bell, M. S. Weinberg, and S. K. Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981).
    - Paul Van de Ven et al., "A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men," Journal of Sex Research 34 (1997): 354.
    - "Sex Survey Results," Genre (October 1996), quoted in "Survey Finds 40 percent of Gay Men Have Had More Than 40 Sex Partners," Lambda Report, January 1998: 20.
    - Ryan Lee, "Gay Couples Likely to Try Non-monogamy, Study Shows," Washington Blade (August 22, 2003): 18.
    - David H. Demo, et al., editors, Handbook of Family Diversity (New York:Oxford University Press, 2000): 73.
    - David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison, The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop (Englewood Cliffs: Prentice-Hall, 1984): 252, 253.
    - Van de Ven et al., "A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile," 354.
    - Bradley P. Hayton, "To Marry or Not: The Legalization of Marriage and Adoption of Homosexual Couples," (Newport Beach: The Pacific Policy Institute, 1993): 9.
    - Dan Black, et al., "Demographics of the Gay and Lesbian Population in the United States: Evidence from Available Systematic Data Sources," Demography 37 (May 2000): 141.
    - "DP1. Profile of General Demographic Characteristics:Vermont" U.S. Census Bureau: Census 2000 Summary File 1 (SF 1) 100-Percent Data.
    - Fred Bayles, "Vermont's Gay Civil Unions Mostly Affairs of the Heart," USA Today (January 7, 2004): 1.
    - Tavia Simmons and Martin O'Connell, "Married-Couple and Unmarried-Partner Households:2000," Census 2000 Special Reports (U.S. Census Bureau, February 2003), 4, Table 2. Online at: http:www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/censr-5.pdf.
    - "Facts:Population," Directory and Complete Guide to Sweden, 2000: available at: Real Estate | Online Education | Airline Tickets | Jobs | Sweden Dating | Matchmaker at Sweden.com.
    - Scott Shane, "Many Swedes Say 'I Don't' to Nuptials; Unions" Baltimore Sun (January 16, 2004): 1A.
    - "At a Glance: Netherlands Statistics" UNICEF:available at: UNICEF - At a glance: Netherlands - UNICEF in the Netherlands.
    - "OLR Backgrounder: Legal Recognition of Same-sex Partnerships," OLR Research Report (October 9, 2002): 1.
    - Stanley Kurtz, "The End of Marriage in Scandinavia," Weekly Standard (February 2, 2004): 26.
    - Judith Stacey and Timothy J. Biblarz, "(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" American Sociological Review 66 (April, 2001): 167.
    - "Married-Couple and Unmarried Partner Households: 2000" (Census 2000 Special Reports, February 2003): 2.
    - Stacey and Biblarz, Fathers and Families 167.
    - "Married-Couple and Unmarried Partner Households: 2000," 10.
    - David M. Smith and Gary J. Gates, "Gay and Lesbian Families in the United States: Same-Sex Unmarried Partner Households," Human Rights Campaign (August 22, 2001): 2.
    - Dan Black et al., "Demographics of the Gay and Lesbian Population," "4.7 percent of men in the combined samples have had at least one same-sex experience since age 18, but only 2.5 percent of men have engaged in exclusively same-sex sex over the year preceding the survey. Similarly, 3.5 percent of women have had at least one same-sex sexual experience, but only 1.4 percent have had exclusively same-sex sex over the year preceding the survey." (141)
    - A.P.M. Coxon et al., "Sex Role Separation in Diaries of Homosexual Men," AIDS (July 1993):877-882.
    - G. J. Hart et al., "Risk Behaviour, Anti-HIV and Anti-Hepatitis B Core Prevalence in Clinic and Non-clinic Samples of Gay Men in England, 1991-1992," AIDS (July 1993): 863-869, cited in "Homosexual Marriage: The Next Demand," Position Analysis paper by Colorado for Family Values, May 1994.
    - Jon Garbo, "More Young Gay Men are Contracting HIV from Steady Partners," GayHealth (July 25, 2001).
    - BJM "Sexually Transmitted Infections," 347.
    - R. Herrell, et al., "A Co-Twin Study in Adult Men," Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 867-874.
    - Lettie L. Lockhart et al., "Letting out the Secret:Violence in Lesbian Relationships," Journal of Interpersonal Violence 9 (1994): 469-492.
    - Gwat Yong Lie and Sabrina Gentlewarrier, "Intimate Violence in Lesbian Relationships: Discussion of Survey Findings and Practice Implications," Journal of Social Service Research 15 (1991): 46.
    - Major American study of donor-conceived children, “My Daddy’s Name is Donor” (2010)
    - http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/regent.pdf
    - Manning: Adolescent Well-Being in Cohabiting, Married, and Single-Parent Families study of 19,000 young people, Parental Cohabitation and Adolescent Well Being, richly demonstrates that children with biological parents do best
    - Briefs
    - http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/...NAL508COMP.pdf
    - William C. Nichols, et al, editors, Handbook of Family Development and Intervention (New York:John Wiley and Sons, Inc., 2000): 393.
    - D. Island and P. Letellier, Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence (New York: Haworth Press, 1991): 14.
    - "Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence," U.S. Department of Justice: Office of Justice Programs (July, 2000): 30.
    - "Intimate Partner Violence," Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report (U.S. Department of Justice, May, 2000): 11
    - Paula Ettelbrick, quoted in William B. Rubenstein, "Since When Is Marriage a Path to Liberation?" Lesbians, Gay Men, and the Law, (New York: The New Press, 1993):398, 400.
    - Michelangelo Signorile, Life Outside (New York: HarperCollins, 1997): 213.
    - Mary Mendola, The Mendola Report (New York: Crown, 1980):53.
    - William Aaron, Straight (New York: Bantam Books, 1972): 208.
    - http://www.gendermatters.org.au/Home...w%20res%29.pdf
    - Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders Findings From the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study ..Theo G. M. Sandfort, PhD; Ron de Graaf, PhD; Rob V. Bijl, PhD; Paul Schnabel, PhD.. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001;58:85-91


    Overcome unwanted same-sex attractions (homosexual, gay)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnem2sbQBs
    Last edited by Pat; 03-20-11 at 04:20 AM.

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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    The words 'bigot' and 'bigotry' are two of the most overused and misused terms in current sociopolitical discourse. Properly speaking, a bigot is someone so suffused with a sense of their own rightness and righteousness, that they are intolerant of other people's freedom of expression. That, of course, is a perfect description of the attitudes and practices of much of the "progressive" liberal-left and the homosexualists within most of their discourse. Truth cannot be discredited or disproven, therefore the argument is reduced to attempts to discredit the source instead.

    Even though they won't admit it, this occurs because they believe themselves to be both morally and intellectually superior, they have appropriated or framed the word by changing its usage to mean expressing, even just holding, different opinions to them. They are not merely invincibly self-righteous, but reflexively self-referential. In their subconscious minds,' bigotry' means thinking differently than them.

    It is their tactical device throughout, continuously and repetitiously aimed at dissenters and other critics as "bigots." Their language is purposefully crude to enhance that idea. Most may not even realize it, but it's much like the "big lie" theory developed in the 1920s and 1930s by the Nazis, the constant repetition of this eventually has the desired psychological effect on masses of people.

    The sick joke in all this is that they use flowery words like 'diversity, 'love,' 'equality,' and 'tolerance' to justify their own attempts to expunge the only form of diversity and tolerance that is actually worthwhile to them - i.e. diversity of ONLY their thoughts and beliefs - and without which all other forms of diversity are meaningless. It is a house of cards that will fall down some day. What will replace it remains to be seen.

    CC chooses to overlook that Sorba's book is merely a documentation of what the homosexual activists admit in their own articles and journals.
    Sorba was brave enough to stand up for true conservative principles, and faux conservative GoProud will not be invited back to CPAC.

    About Southern Poverty Law Center...

    http://www.splcreport.com/

    Acceptance of homosexuality by the general public, thanks to a lot of lies and manipulation, is a million times better than it was 10-15 yrs ago, yet the much higher rates of psychological problems and promiscuity prominent with people who identify as homosexuals have NOT decreased. Since the 90s, HIV rates in the homosexual community have greatly increased, while it has decreased in the heterosexual community. "Homophobia" and this "It Gets Better" campaign are the REAL social constructs, and is a BIG LIE. It will get better when people STOP letting themselves become emotionally manipulated by the lies of the homosexual activists, and when they STOP engaging in homosexual behavior and start making efforts to get help/therapy to overcome their same sex attraction. REAL LOVE and COMPASSION is grounded in TRUTH.
    Last edited by Pat; 03-20-11 at 04:35 AM.

  8. #1318
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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Partisan hackery, false assumptions, a Nazi analogy (Godwins law) and then some more partisan hackery, great post there Pat.
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    CaptianCourtesy claims that all the info I presented was from Bayer's book and further claims that it was taken out of context, which is simply a repeat of what homosexual activists claim....yet doesn't specify anything more. CC may want to read Bayer's book more carefully, especially the first few pages. To say Bayer wasn't there is and unfounded claim, for the bullying and coercion from homoactivists took place over the course of a few years and at several conventions. Maybe CC's bias is showing? Does any of the words convey Bayer's happiness with the way the decision was made? Not. Bayer, though, could have written his book in a less confusing manner. Sometimes he seems to play both sides. I thought I'd add these other words Bayer wrote just to clarify my point: "America's psychiatrists were called to vote upon the question of whether homosexuality ought to be considered a mental disease. The entire process, from the first confrontations organized by gay demonstrators at psychiatric conventions to the referendum demanded by orthodox psychiatrists, seemed to violate the most basic expectations about how questions of science should be resolved. Instead of being engaged in a sober consideration of data, psychiatrists were swept up in a political controversy. The American Psychiatric Association had fallen victim to the disorder of a tumultuous era, when disruptive conflicts threatened to politicize every aspect of American social life. A furious egalitarianism that challenged every instance of authority had compelled psychiatric experts to negotiate the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals themselves."

    Sure sounds like Bayer thinks negotiating the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals makes about as much sense as negotiating the pathological status of (say) schizophrenia with schizophrenics or sociopathy with sociopaths. (I'm not comparing homosexuality with schizophrenia or sociopathy. Just illustrating a point.) Also, do you believe that Bayer believes psychological illnesses, no matter how seemingly extreme or bizarre they are to everyday people, do NOT exist in reality, that they are ALL merely socio/political constructs? If he does believe that I would find his position untenable, to say the least.
    Amazing how you use so many words and say so little. There is nothing here that I have not already refuted completely. Just more anti-gay propaganda that has no basis in reality.

    Could you explain to me how a female mind in a male body is a disorder but a homosexual mind in a heterosexual body is NOT a disorder? It's pretty obvious that, just like a male mind in a female body and a female mind in a male body are disorders, so a homosexual mind in a heterosexual body is a disorder (which the APA for decades used to logically consider it before caving).
    This line of thinking demonstrates that you do not even have the basic understanding of sexual orientation. One who is homosexual does NOT have a "female" mind. Further, you have no understanding of what constitutes a disorder. But let's start your education on this issue with this.

    Tell us how you would describe a disorder.

    If you do some research you'll find the APA actually ignored one of its own criteria when it "normalized" homosexuality. It's decision is clearly irrational. But what the real issue is, is whether the APA's decision was rational. I maintain that it doesn't make sense (except, perhaps, from a political standpoint). Those people who truly value logic and science know that homosexuality is a disorder and that it shouldn't have been removed from the APA's official list of psychological disorders.
    And yet science and research has proven you wrong. What you "maintain" is nothing but your erroneous opinion... which is valueless. But again, in order for me to teach you anything about this topic, we need to start at the beginning. Define a disorder.

    Captain Courtesy tries to frame my information as only based out of Bayer's book at the same time choosing to ignore all the admissions documented by homosexual activists in their very own pro-homosexual articles and journals. CaptainCourtesy simply repeats the homosexual activist talking points and then proceed to copy and paste the previous info he/she already posted.
    All you have done is repeat the standard anti-gay talking points that get refuted here every day. You also ignore the comments from the people who were actually at the 1973 conference. Further, Bayer was NOT there and is a PhD. in Political Science, not Psychology. This is another fact that you have ignored... because it is inconvenient.

    Evidence of countless studies indicates that homosexual relationships are not only radically different from heterosexual couples, but also associated with much higher pathologies in the following in several key respects:

    - duration of relationship
    - promiscuity
    - relationship commitment
    - number of children being raised
    - health risks
    - rates of intimate partner violence
    - psych problems
    See, here you make the classic mistake of correlation without causation... one of the most common logical fallacies by the anti-gay crowd. Further, each of these issue potientially has another cause, or is irrelevant to homosexuality being a disorder. Let us examine each:

    duration of relationship:
    Show me studies that compare straight marriages to gay marriages. Until you do, this point cannot be compared. Point negated.

    promiscuity:
    Until gay marriage is legal, this point, also, cannot be compared because there is no similar frame of reference. Point negated.

    relationship commitment:
    Poor Pat. Running out of things to say, so you just repeat #1. Same as above.

    number of children being raised:
    Irrelevant to homosexuality being a disorder. Further, studies show that children of gays do just as well as children of straights. Point negated.

    health risks:
    Irrelevant to homosexuality being a disorder. What you are talking about is dangerous sexual behaviors. I bet you are another one who doesn't know the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior. Point negated.

    rates of intimate partner violence:
    Irrelevant to homosexuality being a disorder... unless you can prove causation. Go to it.

    psych problems:
    Prove causation. You can't. There are many factors that go towards an individual having psych. problems.

    Here is just a handful of the countless amount of studies:
    And yet not ONE of your "studies" proves or even barely supports your position. You must try harder if you are going to attempt to debate this issue here. All you are posting is standard anti-gay rhetoric with no substantiation. You are making this really easy. I also suspect that you are plagiarizing again.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

  10. #1320
    Pat
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    Re: Pushing the "gay" agenda in schools..

    Homosexuals and casual sex. 88% reported having casual sex in the last 6 months.
    Atypon Link - Error

    GRINDR - Turning on the ‘gaydar’
    Technology - smh.com.au

    Homosexual COUPLES Study — N.I.H. N.Y. Times - Over 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us...etro.html?_r=1

    Homosexual ACTIVIST LEADER Dan Savage who started the “It gets better campaign” lecturing on a college campus about how not being sexually monogamous helps make a couple stronger. In addition to admitting that “monogamy” for the homosexual community more often means sharing with others, he like many falsely compares human sexuality to the animal kingdom. Yes, we are mammals, but there is absolutely NO animal model that accurately reflects HUMAN sexuality…Apes don’t date, ducks don’t go to church, and mice don’t fall in love. Also, notice how, under the guise of humor, he talks about heterosexual relationships as if they were an outdated concept…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm9Bwpxy4V0

    Homosexual ACTIVIST LEADER Andrew Sullivan contrasts male-female marriages with same sex relationships and explains, “there is more likely to be a greater understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman” (p202).
    Amazon.com: Virtually Normal (9780679746140): Andrew Sullivan: Books

    LESBIAN ACTIVIST BLOGGER Yasmin Nair - How Homosexual Marriage Put an End to Homosexual Sex
    How Gay Marriage Put an End to Gay Sex | The Bilerico Project

    Homosexual SUPPORTIVE THERAPISTS: Michael Shernoff, MSW: “Non-monogamy is ubiquitous in the gay world, and my homosexual clients often see it as a possible solution to their couple problems, particularly diminished sexual interest.” Jack Morin, PhD: “Non-monogamous options are thoroughly woven into the tapestry of queer love and are lived out on a richly diverse continuum.”
    Monogamy and Gay Men

    Homosexual SUPPORTIVE THERAPISTS: Are homosexual Male Couples Monogamous Ever After? Is it cheating if both partners agree to be non-monogamous? Homosexual ACTIVIST LEADER David Nimmons, President of New York’s Lesbian & Gay Community Services Center for six years: “David Nimmons cites numerous studies which show that 75% of homosexual male couples are in successful open relationships.”

    …”Homosexual couples often report that what works best for them is to engage in sexual encounters based on sexual attraction only and not emotions or affection.”
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ouples-…

    So what are some more of the underlining reasons why homosexual males and females are more promiscuous, and why it is not only more prevelant than but also not comparable to heterosexual promiscuity?…

    Promiscuity displayed by the average heterosecually orientated person is due to solely to external influences, such as exposure to porn. It is not the nature of heterosexuality to be promiscuous; the balance of maleness with femaleness minimizes/prevents that.

    Men are driven by their physical attractions, so 2 men together, they are going to be much more promiscuous. Women are more about emotions. Two women are more prone for emotional enmeshment, and that is why lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic abuse/violence, high drama, and bad break-ups. Men are form and women are matter, they are designed not only biologically for each other, but emotionally as well to balance each other out. This goes back to the whole yin/yang complimentary opposites.

    Lesbians identified women are not as promiscuous as homosexual men, but as the above studies show, they are far more promiscuous than heterosexual women. And even though they identify themselves as “lesbian,” they have many more male partners than hetero women have on average, and more likely these males are bisexual too. When a “lesbian” girl asks her partner if she was with any men and whether or not any of these men are bisexual? How many of these girls would simply lie out of fear of conflict. How many “lesbian” girls even bother to ask in the first place? How many “lesbian” women still falsely believe that “lesbian” sex is still safer than hetero sex? Perception is NOT reality here, and these are many of the reasons that places them in an even higher health risk category for HIV, STDs, and cancers as explained in the WSW video above.

    So it isn’t just about the fact that heterosexuality makes sense in the biological sense, but also when it comes to the overall safety of our health. The word “natural” is also defined by what is safest for one’s health.

    Also, people with heterosexual orientation do not overtly wave a flag signifying their heterosexuality. We tend not to identify themselves mostly on what we’re attracted to. Male machoness and girls acting like princesses is an immaturity problem that most grow out of. For those who embrace the “gay” or “lesbian” identity, they are essentially defining themselves more according to what they are attracted to rather than the whole of their personality and character. This is another reason why “lesbian” women are more promiscuous than hetero women, and homosexual men are much more promiscuos that heterosexual men. The homosexual condition itself has shown to have outcomes of much higher levels of promiscuity and the higher health risks and outcomes are the consequences that only continue to rise in that sub-culture.

    Here’s even more documentation of homosexual males and females inadvertenly admitting the truth of how the homosexual condition is pathologically linked to higher levels of promiscuity. It’s ashame that they cannot make the connection between safety of health and what is biologically self-evident. Of course every individual is different when it comes to learning how to overcome their issues, addictions, etc, but this just goes to show how powerful this addiction can be…

    Sexual Suicide

    Keep in mind, that more money each year is spent on treatment for AIDs each year. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC) the heterosexual population AIDs rates have declined, while the homosexual community rates of AIDs has increased. Money is allocated to everybody who has the virus regardless of their sexual preference, and out and open self-identified homosexuals only account for (at the most) 4% of the entire population.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqfUmLZq5as

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijjq8dcRqmI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSTCO-5soVE

    Even more testimonials…

    Dr. Benzion Sorotzkin, Psy.D. - Shedding Light on the Gay Issue

    PFOX - Personal Stories

    Why Would Anyone Want to Change?

    One by One

    Overcoming same sex attraction, and rediscovering your heterosexual potential…

    How to Prevent Homosexuality

    Overcome unwanted same-sex attractions (homosexual, gay)

    http://executableoutlines.com/hom/hom_05.ht

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