A Challenge For Our Liberal And Conservative Posters

Where do you agree with those on the other end of the spectrum? That is, liberals, where do you line up better with conservative beliefs, and conservatives, where do you agree more with a liberal position? Most people are not 100 % ideologically pure liberal or conservative I don't believe, so i think it might be fun, interesting and revealing seeing where you differ from your base ideology and agree with those on the other end. Please try and name 5 issues you agree with those at the other end of the spectrum. I am asking for 5 because that is enough to make it a challenge.

Please do not turn this thread into a debate on the issues. We have dozens of threads on every one of these topics. Let's stick to talking about where we overlap with the other ideology.

For me:

1) Hate Crime Laws: liberals tend to support these, conservatives oppose. I think they are a horrible idea

2) Immigration: I tend to agree with the conservative opinion that illegal immigration is a crime and people who enter the country are criminals and we should go after them with the full force of law enforcement.

3) Strong Defense: I trend to think our military expenditure is more important than liberals tend to believe and that we have a military roll in the world.

4) Gun rights: this is admittedly weak, since I think liberals support gun rights far more than given credit for, but I do think the right to own guns is a constitutionally protected right

5) Drug laws: There are lots and lots of exceptions among conservatives, but as a general rule, conservatives support keeping drugs illegal(including marijuana), and I agree with that.

Which group would claim me?

Gardener said:

Which group would claim me?

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You are trying to get me in trouble.

For me:
1) Abortion
2) Capital Punishment

I am for a strong military, but think America's neocon foreign policy during the Bush era was ridiculously flawed and that there is definitely a lot of waste when it comes to defense spending (i.e. too many flag and general positions, too much money being used on contractors and consultants, flawed weapons systems procurement process, etc.) Compared to the Cold War era, we are spending more money and getting less. This is a huge problem.

Redress said:

You are trying to get me in trouble.

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Well, I don't even know if you are female, so I can't be too certain of whether or not I can get get you in trouble.

I agree with the more conservative position on capital punishment. Some people are just six feet of stacked waste stinking up society and ruining innocent lives. I do not want to spend $30K or more feeding them and having them lift weights for the next fifty years. Fry them and be done with it.

It may surprise some people to know it , but .... I am fairly progressive on most other issues.

I depart from many conservatives on a few important issues.

I reluctantly support progressive tax as a necessary evil. I don't think we can impose a flat rate on the poor and middle-class that would support government's current budget, and I don't think that we could pragmatically cut the budget enough to make a flat tax rate that wouldn't bankrupt the lower third of income earners.

I tend to favor the legalization of marijuana, not only possession but also the production, distribution and sale, to legal adults, for a variety of reasons. I'm still on the fence about other drugs. My primary reasoning is concern about our movement towards a police-state due to the drug war, and about de-funding the gangs and cartels by depriving them of their primary income stream.

Things like the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretaps do not sit well with me. I don't think that this is entirely a liberal/conservative issue... there are many people on both sides who don't like some of the things gov't is doing under the umbrella of homeland security.

While I think business and finance are over-regulated in many ways, I don't support total de-regulation. I think some necessary regulation is needed to keep things from going crazy... I just don't support as MUCH regulation as big-gov liberals, or the near-total DEregulation some conservatives and libertarians espouse. I suppose I am centrist on that particular issue.

I've recently become more concerned with fiscal issues than social ones, because I believe we are heading for big trouble if we don't get spending under control. I would move most of the big conservative social issues (abortion, SSM, etc) to one side for the time being in order to focus on what I see as the single biggest issue facing us: out of control spending leading us to national economic collapse. Some social conservatives might well disagree with my choice of priorities.

Here are my positions on various issues:

1) Hate Crime Laws: I support them since the targeting of an individual affects an entire community, and the individual has no previous connection to the perp.

2) Immigration: I do not view illegal immigrants as criminals. I have known too many over the years to think if them as criminals. To me, criminals are defined by their actual criminality.

3) Strong Defense/foreign policy: I believe the greatest current threat we face is that posed by Islamists, and think our efforts need to be further refined from the cold cold war type paradigms of fighting nation states to a more flexible approach. Our chief failing has to do with our inability to define what and who we are fighting and our inability to articulate the values we hold dear as well as living up to them.

4) Gun rights: I support the right of "the people" to own guns, but with strong regulation as to what types can be owned and with background checks for the individuals who wish to own them..

5) Drug laws: I think marijuana should be decriminalized, and that all other drug laws should be based upon selling drugs rather than possessing them.

6)business: I support small business, and wish more people (including our government) did.

7) taxation -- I favor progressive taxation.

8) The Environment -- I favor very strong regulations on toxic substances as well as greenhouse emissions. We should be investing heavily in green technology.

9) separation of church and state -- I favor a very strong separation, but do think some secularists have gone to far in trying to stomp out all vestiges of religion -- especially when those expressions are personal in nature and not systematic.

10) Gay rights -- I favor gay marriage.

Well, I'm not all that liberal, though I do identify myself more as a liberal than a conservative, but anyway, here's issues that I agree more with conservatives than liberals on.

1. Immigration. Illegal immigrants are criminals, and we should be working to keep them out of the country.
2. Taxes. While I'm not in favor of a completely flat tax, I think we need tax reform in this country to make things more fair, and more importantly to make them simpler.
3. Capital punishment. I'm in favor of it. Some people's crimes are so monstrous that they should be killed to ensure that they can never commit them again.
4. Gun control. While I'm not in favor of no gun control, I'm in favor of less gun control (and different kinds of gun control) than most liberals.
5. Foreign policy. I'm not in favor of the interventionist foreign policy and massive foreign aid that some liberals seem to favor.

I support legal immigration, and think that that illegals must be expelled from the country. I think that calling people that oppose illegal immigration racist is hate speech and offenders should be prosecuted.

I oppose SSM but support CU.

I generally oppose welfare programs. I support welfare programs which are goal oriented and time limited.

I support gun ownership but believe in gun control. Common sense controls and wait periods make sense to me.

I think we spend way to much militarily. I do believe in a strong defense, but think it's time to start closing down overseas bases where they aren't needed. Europe, for example.

I strongly oppose abortion.

I support the patriot act, but believe in the right to privacy. I think the government must be able to pursue leads for our domestic defense but oversight on these programs should be intense.

I generally oppose "parental" laws. Things like seat belt laws, etc.

I support legalizing pot, but not narcotics.

I could go on and on.......

.

Agree with all of the Redress list. Disagree with most of Gardner's list....


.

I'm having trouble finding anything I agree with liberals on.

SSM don't have a problem with, but think it should be left to the states.

Legalizing Marijuana? I guess I'm for if they can make it profitable for the states that want to legalize it.

Immigration? I'd like to see a faster track for immigrants to become legal. However am totally against any kind of amnesty, even as proposed in the Dream Act.

That's really all I can think of where I'd be on common ground with liberals. Maybe I'll think of something later.

Just a note: this is looking for where you agree with those on the other end of the political spectrum, not just listing your political positions. Thanks for some interesting answers so far guys and keep them coming. Also, try for 5 if you can. It's hard, trust me I know, but I think it is doable.

Redress said:

Where do you agree with those on the other end of the spectrum? That is, liberals, where do you line up better with conservative beliefs, and conservatives, where do you agree more with a liberal position? Most people are not 100 % ideologically pure liberal or conservative I don't believe, so i think it might be fun, interesting and revealing seeing where you differ from your base ideology and agree with those on the other end. Please try and name 5 issues you agree with those at the other end of the spectrum. I am asking for 5 because that is enough to make it a challenge.

Please do not turn this thread into a debate on the issues. We have dozens of threads on every one of these topics. Let's stick to talking about where we overlap with the other ideology.

For me:

1) Hate Crime Laws: liberals tend to support these, conservatives oppose. I think they are a horrible idea

2) Immigration: I tend to agree with the conservative opinion that illegal immigration is a crime and people who enter the country are criminals and we should go after them with the full force of law enforcement.

3) Strong Defense: I trend to think our military expenditure is more important than liberals tend to believe and that we have a military roll in the world.

4) Gun rights: this is admittedly weak, since I think liberals support gun rights far more than given credit for, but I do think the right to own guns is a constitutionally protected right

5) Drug laws: There are lots and lots of exceptions among conservatives, but as a general rule, conservatives support keeping drugs illegal(including marijuana), and I agree with that.

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1) Spending. I believe we need to get spending down to income or near it. (I am not against social programs, but they need not bankrupt us)
2) Welfare. History has shown that simply giving people money without them working for it means they will not value it and waste it. Welfare programs should require that the person is either working full time or they go pick up trash off the side of the road if not working. Same with unemployment.
3) Gun rights. I personally feel no desire to own a gun, but I am all for gun rights
4) Immigration. I believe that people here should respect our laws and abide by them. If we want to change the laws, thats another discussion.

Conservatives: Religion is good for people. Secularization should be done with moderation, not as a way of life.

Liberals: Some segments of the populace are unique to the situation of welfare state programs where there is a limited amount one can do to have them be self-sufficient. For that segment (for instance, those who are mentally disabled), more benefits tend to help them rather than stunt them.

(Strangely finding this labeled this way, but apparently it is)-Conservatives: America is an exceptional nation. Though, I heard American exceptionalism philosophy in Obama's speeches....anyhow.

Liberals-Gay marriage is a-okay and should be encouraged.

Conservatives (Again, a surprise this is seen as "conservative", but alas, it is)-The "Founding Fathers", so labeled, are still a treasure trove to read, admire, and use as a public discourse for guiding government.

Redress said:

It's hard, trust me I know, but I think it is doable.

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So the premise of this thread is to pick ideas that they agree with that are on the opposite side of the left/right spectrum than the one that they typically identify with? Sounds like that should only be hard for complete partisan hacks.

Fiddytree said:

Conservatives: Religion is good for people. Secularization should be done with moderation, not as a way of life.

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I don't follow what you are saying here.

To not maintain a theocracy, but encourage religion to help sway the character of the American people and its government. Or, if I dare be called elitist, allow religion to be used as a public unifier and moral guide that should not impede the actions of the state.

Fiddytree said:

To not maintain a theocracy, but encourage religion to help sway the character of the American people and its government. Or, if I dare be called elitist, allow religion to be used as a public unifier and moral guide that should not impede the actions of the state.

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Thank you for the clarification, and I 100 % disagree.

Guy Incognito said:

So the premise of this thread is to pick ideas that they agree with that are on the opposite side of the left/right spectrum than the one that they typically identify with? Sounds like that should only be hard for complete partisan hacks.

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It should be easy for you then. Have you listed you 5 yet?
1
2
3
4
5

Redress said:

Thank you for the clarification, and I 100 % disagree.

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And that's why, though always thought of myself as a man on the political left (who was suspicious of religious conservatives), I came to slowly realize I would not want an entirely secular society because it would not work in my view. I also found American public discourse of centuries past to still be enlightening, moving, and healthy-even with all of that "religion" in public life. That was also a way for me to realize, it was quickly a social conservative realization (even a criticism of the high-enlightenment era philosophy, which is a big no-no for liberals as well as "classical liberals" who are more in line with Ron Paul).

Fiddytree said:

And that's why, though always thought of myself as a man on the political left (who was suspicious of religious conservatives), I came to slowly realize I would not want an entirely secular society because it would not work in my view. I also found American public discourse of centuries past to still be enlightening, moving, and healthy-even with all of that "religion" in public life. That was also a way for me to realize, it was quickly a social conservative realization (even a criticism of the high-enlightenment era philosophy, which is a big no-no for liberals as well as "classical liberals" who are more in line with Ron Paul).

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I want to have this conversation with you, but would rather do it in another thread if possible.

Since I have my own ideology, I'll list five for "conservatives" and five for "liberals".


Five "conservative" views I hold:

1. Gay marriage laws should be left to the states
2. Abortion laws should be left to the states
3. Prayer in school should be left to state and local governments
4. I support decreasing federal spending
5. I support the rights of states like Arizona to pass their own immigration ordinances



Five "Liberal" positions

1. I support legalizing gay marriage
2. I support legalized abortion
3. I oppose prayer in school
4. I support entitlement programs if they are run at the state level.
5. I am openly pro-illegal immigrant and I support the rights of states to grant legal residency to any person they deem worthy.


The fact that many people think my views are contradictory is something I consider to be a major problem in the US today.

Redress said:

Just a note: this is looking for where you agree with those on the other end of the political spectrum, not just listing your political positions. Thanks for some interesting answers so far guys and keep them coming. Also, try for 5 if you can. It's hard, trust me I know, but I think it is doable.

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Which end are people like me that don't align with either side supposed to agree with?

mac said:

Which end are people like me that don't align with either side supposed to agree with?

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Do what I did. List five from both.