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Pictures of the hallowed ground around the WTC site

Zyphlin said:
I came into this post thinking there would be an intelligent point.

Nope.

Look, I think the notion of "hallowed" ground is idiotic when people use it literally. However I don't think many are using in a literalistic "holy" sense as in religious but more in regards to a more patriotic nature, such as a monument type of thing.

Dunken Donuts were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Strip Clubs were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

BBQ joints were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

People selling T-Shirts with the logos of the heroes that went in saving people after the attacks were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Gambling halls were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Know what WAS directly and heavily involved in influencing the plan, method, and reason for the attack? Islam.

Know what's probably not tactful to have as a giant glaring reminder of the evils of that day rather than the heroism and mourning of it? A mosque dedicated to said religion whose purpose in its location is highly dubious and questionable.
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You know what? All the people who bombed the WTC were MEN! That's right! Therefore, no men should be allowed anywhere near the World Trade Center. Not only that, but all the people who bombed Pearl Harbor were Japanese! No Japanese people should be allowed in America, nor should they be allowed to build any Buddhist or Shinto temples near Pearl Harbor! (Oh, wait, there already are some there? Never mind)

Hey, Zyphiln: How much is al Qada paying you to say just the exact right things they want you to say so they can recruit more members? ;)
 
Groucho said:
You know what? All the people who bombed the WTC were MEN!
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Really? Do you want to have an actual discussion or just keep throwing out mindlessly ignorant comments like this?

Being male was not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Not only that, but all the people who bombed Pearl Harbor were Japanese! No Japanese people should be allowed in America, nor should they be allowed to build any Buddhist or Shinto temples near Pearl Harbor! (Oh, wait, there already are some there? Never mind)
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"Japanese" as an ethnicity was not the cause for Pearl Harbor. Nice strawman, but notice I'm not saying muslims should be banned from visiting Ground Zero.

However, I would agree completely, if they created a historical japanese museum extolling the emperors of the 1800-1900's within quick walking distance from Pearl Harbor ten years after the fact I'd find that incredibly tactless as well.

Hey, Zyphiln: How much is al Qada paying you to say just the exact right things they want you to say so they can recruit more members? ;)
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Aww, its cute, you think you're stupid little off hand comment trying to insult me would actually give you any credibilty for your pathetic points and inability to actually counter my statements. Its always so fun watchign people flounder with an inability to make a cogent response so they resort to pathetic little gimmicks as if it makes people not see their glaring inability to actually back up their points.
 
Zyphlin said:
Really? Do you want to have an actual discussion or just keep throwing out mindlessly ignorant comments like this?
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I see that my complicated metaphor was too subtle for your simple mind, my inferior foe! Once more, good triumphs over evil! (flies away into the sunset as the crowd cheers)
 
apdst said:
The people building the mosque haven't condemned the terroists who did fly those aircraft into the WTC and The Pentagon. Have they?

In fact, imam whateverthehellhisnameis said that it was our fault. Do you support that claim?
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Imam Rauf. He also refuses to call Hamas a terrorist organization. Terrorism is a complicated subject ya know.

Where is the money coming from? This man has questionable ties to a man named Sayyed Nadeem Kazmi, and to George Soros.
If Rauf wants to build bridges he is failing miserably. How about a little honesty from him? Why is this spot so important to him? This building was damaged on 9/11 so it's not important that it's two blocks away.
Any grade schooler knows he has a RIGHT to build it. The big question is WHY there?
 
Groucho said:
I see that my complicated metaphor was too subtle for your simple mind, my inferior foe! Once more, good triumphs over evil! (flies away into the sunset as the crowd cheers)
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Thanks for proving my point.
 
Groucho said:
You know what? All the people who bombed the WTC were MEN! That's right! Therefore, no men should be allowed anywhere near the World Trade Center. Not only that, but all the people who bombed Pearl Harbor were Japanese! No Japanese people should be allowed in America, nor should they be allowed to build any Buddhist or Shinto temples near Pearl Harbor!
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There's a Shinto Temple in close proximity to Pearl Harbor? Prove it.
 
Orion said:
Mosque-Near-Ground-Zero1.jpg


All of these claims about the mosque being built at ground zero are just a bunch of racist, hyperbolic non-sense.

The mosque also received a 9-0 vote from the Landmark commission in NYC to go ahead with building it.
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Islam isn't a race. :roll:

I can't believe people still don't realize that.
 
I'm not surprised that the fact it can neither see nor be seen from GZ does not stop the haters from insisting that it does.
 
Just reading through this thread, it's striking to me that the opponents of the mosque believe that 9/11 was a religiously motivated attack. That may be partially true, but anybody who's studied up on Bin Laden's history knows that US presence on the Arabian peninsula motivates him and his organization. In my mind, their fanatical religious beliefs give them the false sense that their politically motivated attacks are permissible. That doesn't mean that their religion directly inspires their violent actions.
 
Zyphlin said:
Thanks for proving my point.
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Ah, and thank you for proving mine, my esteemed foe!

You see, I learned years ago that it is a complete waste of my time to attempt to argue with someone who has bigoted views. No facts can sway their opinion, no logic affects their mind. Instead, I merely laugh at them -- ho ho! -- and go on to more productive ventures. And if I can make them feel foolish along the way, all the better!

Tally ho!
 
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Groucho said:
Ah, and thank you for proving mine, my esteemed foe!

You see, I learned years ago that it is a complete waste of my time to attempt to argue with someone who has bigoted views. No facts can sway their opinion, no logic affects their mind. Instead, I merely laugh at them -- ho ho! -- and go on to more productive ventures. And if I can make them feel foolish along the way, all the better!

Tally ho!
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Look, more bull****ting and gimmicks highlighting your inability to actually address my point with any kind of reasonable or worth while response. Who'd have thunk.
 
Groucho said:
As you can see, we wouldn't want a mosque upsetting the sacred area around this spot.
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Funny...I dont remember any of the arguments against the mosque being hinged on sanctity or how hallowed the ground is. :shrug:
 
salatomatic.com: Manhattan

How far away does a community center, with a mosque, being converted from an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory store need to be before it isn't "disrespectful"?

What about the mosques in the link?
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Ignorance is that 1.5billion people are responsible for the actions of 19.
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You'd think with that many Muslims you'd be able to hear them stand up and clearly state how they are against the attack on the USA. But all I heard was crickets and complaining about anti Muslim sentiment in this country.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
You'd think with that many Muslims you'd be able to hear them stand up and clearly state how they are against the attack on the USA. But all I heard was crickets and complaining about anti Muslim sentiment in this country.
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It appears an audiology visit is in order.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
You'd think with that many Muslims you'd be able to hear them stand up and clearly state how they are against the attack on the USA. But all I heard was crickets and complaining about anti Muslim sentiment in this country.
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Otherwise you assume they're for it? Nice.

I haven't heard you stand up and clearly state how you are against child molestation, ergo you are in favor of it.
 
Groucho said:
Let's see -- how many links did I find in google? I guess that was too difficult for you. Here's the top one:

Shinto Shrine Near Pearl Harbor | Japan Probe
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lol that Shinto Shrine had already been established in 1920. FAIL.

How about this: Since the pentagon was also attacked on 9/11, should we allow a Muslim mosque in the actual pentagon itself? Oops! Too late!


Mosque Controversy Skips Pentagon: Muslims Gather at 9/11 Crash Site for Daily Prayer - ABC News
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It's a non-denominational prayer area not a Mosque. UBERFAIL.
 
Mustachio said:
Just reading through this thread, it's striking to me that the opponents of the mosque believe that 9/11 was a religiously motivated attack. That may be partially true, but anybody who's studied up on Bin Laden's history knows that US presence on the Arabian peninsula motivates him and his organization. In my mind, their fanatical religious beliefs give them the false sense that their politically motivated attacks are permissible. That doesn't mean that their religion directly inspires their violent actions.
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A) Why is he opposed to U.S. presence on the Arabian Peninsula? Because he believes his religion does not allow infidels near the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina, that is directly motivated by his arcane religious beliefs.

B) He has clearly stated in a tape never meant to be heard by western audiences that he was "ordered by god to fight the infidel until they say there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet."

C) Bin Laden is a Qutbist. Do you know what Jahiliyya is? It is the concept of ignorance of the divine inspirations granted to Mohammad by God through the Archangel Gabriele which was transliterated in the Koran. He believes that western decadence is corrupting the world and turning the people and even Muslims towards the path of Jahilliya and that the only way to combat this is to bring down all world governments and replace them with puritanical Sharia based Islamic theocracies.
 
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How far away does a community center, with a mosque, being converted from an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory store need to be before it isn't "disrespectful"?
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This is a valid point. How far is far enough? What is an "acceptable" distance for Muslims to worship? What about Muslims living in the area? They worship personally in that zone. Should they be relocated?

The entire argument against the Mosque is the whole "clash of civilizations" argument. Essentially that because the people who perpetrated the attacks claimed to be Muslim, this means that it was an attack by Islam on the non-Islam (and more specifically, Judeo-Christian) "west" by these "Orientals". Thus, it is an open slap in the face for any Muslims to worship in the vicinity, as they are invariably guilty by association with the 9/11 hijackers.

Let's not mention, of course, the Muslims that died in the tragedy, or that this was an act not against the "west" but against the United States financial center specifically, perpetrated by those who are about as Muslim as Timothy McVeigh was Christian.

I wonder how many churches are constructed in the vicinity of the Murrah Building...
 
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