• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Republicans Champion Government Health Insurance

Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
1,563
Reaction score
138
Location
In the land of steers and queers
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
...proof that big government programs are popular with the American people

A sense of irony is clearly a luxury that politicians can't afford. So was the irony totally lost on Republican senators that after months and months of relentless attacks on a "government takeover of health care," they spent most of the week stomping their feet "defending" Medicare, our national government health insurance program for seniors and people with serious disabilities?

There have been a lot of comments on Republican hypocrisy, with John McCain as Hypocrite-In-Chief, for railing against Democratic proposals to reduce the rate of Medicare spending. Republicans have a long history of proposing gutting or privatizing Medicare which, unlike the Democratic proposals, included reducing Medicare benefits. But what has largely gone unnoticed is the broader context of the debate. Following their traditional playbook, with a refresher chapter written by longtime author Frank Luntz, Republicans have founded their major message against reform this year as a "government takeover of health care." Then this week, they put all their political capital into defending the biggest government health insurance program in the nation.

If you ever needed proof that big government programs are popular with the American people, the Republican defense of Medicare could be exhibit one. Medicare is so popular that the best political attack Republicans have against the health care reform bill is to scare seniors about the legislation's impact on Medicare.

For Republicans, the leading example of the alleged government takeover of health care is giving some people the choice of a public insurance plan to compete with private insurers. The public option would be a very small version of the very big Medicare program.

There are lots of reasons that Medicare is so popular. It allows you to go to any doctor or hospital without having to get permission from an insurance company. It doesn't require your doctor to beg at the feet of an insurance bureaucrat to provide the care that he or she thinks is needed. You can take it with you wherever you go, every community across the country. And you don't have to worry about being dropped from Medicare or seeing your premiums hiked because you have a history of actually needing health care.

You'd think with all these features, Medicare would have trouble controlling health spending. But the fact is that despite its fee-for-service system, Medicare costs for the benefits it offers went up 4.4% a year from 1997 to 2007 while spending under private health insurance increased 7.4% a year. In other words Medicare does a much better job of controlling health care costs than private insurance. The same is true when held up against its privatized competitor, the inaptly named Medicare Advantage. MA commands a 14% cushion to provide the same services as in Medicare.

That's one big reason that we need a public insurance option to compete with private insurers in the new health care system. If insurers have to compete with a health insurance plan that offers better access to care and costs less, they'll either have to become more efficient and charge less - reducing their huge administrative costs, executive salaries, and profits - or lose customers to the public option. It's also one big reason why Republicans don't want the public option to be established. If it is, they'll soon have to face the embarrassment of defending another popular government program.

Richard Kirsch: Republicans Champion Government Health Insurance...for Seniors
 
Why don't you just post a link to the Huffington Post in one place, and forget the individual threads?
 
...proof that big government programs are popular with the American people

A sense of irony is clearly a luxury that politicians can't afford. So was the irony totally lost on Republican senators that after months and months of relentless attacks on a "government takeover of health care," they spent most of the week stomping their feet "defending" Medicare, our national government health insurance program for seniors and people with serious disabilities?

There have been a lot of comments on Republican hypocrisy, with John McCain as Hypocrite-In-Chief, for railing against Democratic proposals to reduce the rate of Medicare spending. Republicans have a long history of proposing gutting or privatizing Medicare which, unlike the Democratic proposals, included reducing Medicare benefits. But what has largely gone unnoticed is the broader context of the debate. Following their traditional playbook, with a refresher chapter written by longtime author Frank Luntz, Republicans have founded their major message against reform this year as a "government takeover of health care." Then this week, they put all their political capital into defending the biggest government health insurance program in the nation.

If you ever needed proof that big government programs are popular with the American people, the Republican defense of Medicare could be exhibit one. Medicare is so popular that the best political attack Republicans have against the health care reform bill is to scare seniors about the legislation's impact on Medicare.

For Republicans, the leading example of the alleged government takeover of health care is giving some people the choice of a public insurance plan to compete with private insurers. The public option would be a very small version of the very big Medicare program.

There are lots of reasons that Medicare is so popular. It allows you to go to any doctor or hospital without having to get permission from an insurance company. It doesn't require your doctor to beg at the feet of an insurance bureaucrat to provide the care that he or she thinks is needed. You can take it with you wherever you go, every community across the country. And you don't have to worry about being dropped from Medicare or seeing your premiums hiked because you have a history of actually needing health care.

You'd think with all these features, Medicare would have trouble controlling health spending. But the fact is that despite its fee-for-service system, Medicare costs for the benefits it offers went up 4.4% a year from 1997 to 2007 while spending under private health insurance increased 7.4% a year. In other words Medicare does a much better job of controlling health care costs than private insurance. The same is true when held up against its privatized competitor, the inaptly named Medicare Advantage. MA commands a 14% cushion to provide the same services as in Medicare.

That's one big reason that we need a public insurance option to compete with private insurers in the new health care system. If insurers have to compete with a health insurance plan that offers better access to care and costs less, they'll either have to become more efficient and charge less - reducing their huge administrative costs, executive salaries, and profits - or lose customers to the public option. It's also one big reason why Republicans don't want the public option to be established. If it is, they'll soon have to face the embarrassment of defending another popular government program.

Richard Kirsch: Republicans Champion Government Health Insurance...for Seniors

Interesting post. Please name for me one govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away?

I don't have a lot of use today for the GOP but the fact remains that Medicare is an entitlement program that is bankrupt yet the Democrats want to cut the program yet now add 30 million more to the program.

Liberals seem to have a problem with reality and their answer to everything is spend more money even though we are tillions in debt and they put Bush spending on steroids.

For eight years I heard about the debt, the war, corruption, and failure to have transparency. Now Obama has put spending on steroids, has radicals and corrupt members of his administration, provided no transparency in any legislation offered this past year and not a word from anyone including the media.

Barack Obama had a record that the majority in this country ignored. Now we are seeing that elections truly have consequences.
 
Please name for me one govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away?
First, you name for me one private sector program that costs what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away?
 
First, you name for me one private sector program that costs what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away?

Does it matter what private sector programs cost? How does that affect you or your family? You have a choice with the private sector.

Interesting logic on your part. Too bad you don't worry more about how your tax dollars are spent vs. how the private sector spends THEIR money which isn't yours.
 
If that is true, why are Medicare claims being paid?


Pretty simple, govt. just prints money. Eventually the value of the dollar will be worthless. Why do you think the value of the dollar is shrinking? Look up inflation and get back to me.
 
Interesting post. Please name for me one govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away?

VA healthcare.

I don't have a lot of use today for the GOP but the fact remains that Medicare is an entitlement program that is bankrupt yet the Democrats want to cut the program yet now add 30 million more to the program.


Your right Medicare is an entitlement program, it is an entitlement program whose expenses have grown at the rate of 9.7 percent per person as apposed to private health insurance whose cost grew by 11.1 percent. So …in my opinion lets fix Medicare and do away with private health insurance, seeing as they are gouging us at a unsustainable rate.

Liberals seem to have a problem with reality and their answer to everything is spend more money even though we are tillions in debt and they put Bush spending on steroids.

Seems strange to see conservatives bitch about debt after the record of the last few so-called conservative Presidents,Reagan, Bush both one and two. It took Clinton eight years to get the Reagan debacle straightened out, we have a President that’s been in office a little over one year and he inherited almost a depression brought on by eight years incompetence, so it may take another eight year term to straighten this mess out.

For eight years I heard about the debt, the war, corruption, and failure to have transparency. Now Obama has put spending on steroids, has radicals and corrupt members of his administration, provided no transparency in any legislation offered this past year and not a word from anyone including the media.

Campaign promise fulfilled!

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/20091208 - OpenGovernmentDirective.pdf
 
Seems strange to see conservatives bitch about debt after the record of the last few so-called conservative Presidents,Reagan, Bush both one and two. It took Clinton eight years to get the Reagan debacle straightened out, we have a President that’s been in office a little over one year and he inherited almost a depression brought on by eight years incompetence, so it may take another eight year term to straighten this mess out.

seal.jpg
 
VA healthcare.




Your right Medicare is an entitlement program, it is an entitlement program whose expenses have grown at the rate of 9.7 percent per person as apposed to private health insurance whose cost grew by 11.1 percent. So …in my opinion lets fix Medicare and do away with private health insurance, seeing as they are gouging us at a unsustainable rate.



Seems strange to see conservatives bitch about debt after the record of the last few so-called conservative Presidents,Reagan, Bush both one and two. It took Clinton eight years to get the Reagan debacle straightened out, we have a President that’s been in office a little over one year and he inherited almost a depression brought on by eight years incompetence, so it may take another eight year term to straighten this mess out.



Campaign promise fulfilled!

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/20091208 - OpenGovernmentDirective.pdf

Typical response from someone who appears to not have a clue as to the foundation upon which this country was built, free enterprise and capitalism.

You mentioned the VA as an example of a govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and went away. Prove it! There is waste, fraud, and abuse in the VA system just like with any govt. run program and the taxpayer pays for it.

Medicare was a multi million dollar program that now costs billions and you point that to success? You claim private insurance is rising at a faster rate, prove it. Private insurance is highly regulated which costs money. Any insurance rate increases are due to govt. regulation and a legal profession gone wild. Someone has to pay for the cost of lawsuits against doctors, most of which are foolish.

Now regarding Clinton. When Clinton took office the debt was 4.4 trillion. When he left it was 5.6 trillion. SS is part of the General Fund and was used to "balance" the budget replacing the "SS Trust Fund" with an IOU, hardly balancing the budget. Get the facts before spouting your opinion.

Bill Clinton had a GOP Congress that fought him on spending and shutdown the govt. because the GOP CUT HIS BUDGETS.

Now you want to put spending on steroids? Obama added more debt in one year than Bush did in his last 4. Those are the facts. Go to the U.S. Treasury Dept. and get the facts. Bush had 9/11, two wars, and the cost of Katrina. The last two years Democrats controlled Congress and Obama was in the Congress. He voted for all spending bills but now wants to blame Bush. Minion cult followers buy the rhetoric. Tell me you are smarter than that?
 
Last edited:

Yep, blame Bush for Obama spending. This country cannot afford 8 years of Obama.

What is it exactly that Obama has proposed or initiated that you support and why? You buy the rhetoric and ignore the reality.

Bush isn't in office and BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury Dept. give a much different picture of his record than you and the media paint. I suggest you stop listening to the mainstream media and actually do some research.
 
There is no waste, fraud or abuse whatsoever in the VA system, Con Man.

Didn't take long for name calling to begin. Calling me a con man is typical of someone who ignores the facts.

There IS waste, fraud, and abuse in the VA system just like there is in every Govt. run program that the taxpayers have to fund. It does appear that as long as you seem to get what you want you ignore what is going on behind the scenes. Live for today and ignore tomorrow liberals got us into the mess we are in today.
 
I'll take that to mean you don't know of an example of a private sector program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and then went away.

You can take it as an example of something I don't care about. I can choose where I go to buy things but I cannot choose to pay taxes or where that money goes. The govt. wasting money affects us all whereas Private business wasting money affects the shareholders or other business owners. Apparently personal choice only matters to a liberal when they murder the unborn or promote larget govt.

Keep diverting because that is what you do best. Private sector spending doesn't affect you or me at all because it isn't our money. Explain to me how that is even relevant?
 
Didn't take long for name calling to begin. Calling me a con man is typical of someone who ignores the facts.

There IS waste, fraud, and abuse in the VA system just like there is in every Govt. run program that the taxpayers have to fund. It does appear that as long as you seem to get what you want you ignore what is going on behind the scenes. Live for today and ignore tomorrow liberals got us into the mess we are in today.
"Con Man" was an abbreviation of "Conservative Man", Con Man.
 
You can take it as an example of something I don't care about. I can choose where I go to buy things but I cannot choose to pay taxes or where that money goes. The govt. wasting money affects us all whereas Private business wasting money affects the shareholders or other business owners. Apparently personal choice only matters to a liberal when they murder the unborn or promote larget govt.

Keep diverting because that is what you do best. Private sector spending doesn't affect you or me at all because it isn't our money. Explain to me how that is even relevant?

The widespread use of generic prescription drugs and other proven pharmacy benefit management tools in Medicare Part D has resulted in the program coming in 30 percent under original budget projections.

PCMA PBM Tools Help Part D Come in 30% Under Budget Estimates
 
It appears that you don't have a proper understanding of bankruptcy.

Actually it appears that you have no understanding of bankruptcy. As long as the govt. has the ability to print money they have the ability to pay their bills. Right now Medicare is insolvent, spending much more than it takes in and the unfunded mandates for the future make it bankrupt. Bankrupt businesses reorganize and continue in business. Medicare is funded by the taxpayer and regardless of the liabilities will remain "in business."

What is the Obama solution? Spend more money, cut the budget for medicare and add more people to it. I suggest you pay closer attention to what your govt. is doing with your tax money, if you pay taxes.
 
The widespread use of generic prescription drugs and other proven pharmacy benefit management tools in Medicare Part D has resulted in the program coming in 30 percent under original budget projections.

PCMA PBM Tools Help Part D Come in 30% Under Budget Estimates

Goes to show what happens when you provide incentive and free markets to any program. That is what Bush did and was demonized for it. Medicare Part D is only part of the Medicare program. You cannot add 30 million people to the program and pay for it by Medicare Part D savings.
 
Seems strange to see conservatives bitch about debt after the record of the last few so-called conservative Presidents,Reagan, Bush both one and two. It took Clinton eight years to get the Reagan debacle straightened out, we have a President that’s been in office a little over one year and he inherited almost a depression brought on by eight years incompetence, so it may take another eight year term to straighten this mess out.

So-Called conservative is correct but Clinton didn't really straighten anything out, since spending exceeded revenues for every single year he was in office.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
 
So-Called conservative is correct but Clinton didn't really straighten anything out, since spending exceeded revenues for every single year he was in office.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999

"so called conservative" LOL, the one thing no one will ever do is get a liberal to actually get facts to justify their opinion as listening to rhetoric is a lot easier than doing research.

You are absolutely correct, Clinton did absolutely nothing to straighten anything out but that doesn't prevent supporters from stating that lie over and over again.
 
Actually it appears that you have no understanding of bankruptcy. As long as the govt. has the ability to print money they have the ability to pay their bills. Right now Medicare is insolvent, spending much more than it takes in and the unfunded mandates for the future make it bankrupt. Bankrupt businesses reorganize and continue in business. Medicare is funded by the taxpayer and regardless of the liabilities will remain "in business."

What is the Obama solution? Spend more money, cut the budget for medicare and add more people to it. I suggest you pay closer attention to what your govt. is doing with your tax money, if you pay taxes.

Bankruptcy is the inability to pay financial debts as they come due. Medicare, at this time, is able to pay its financial debts as they come dude.
 
Back
Top Bottom