Thread: Should students stand up for the pledge?

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

Sometimes kids have to be controlled, and mind. Our teachers said, "please stand for the pledge". Is this what you consider force? Nobody ever refused. As has been stated, most kids under 13 don't even know what it means, so how could they knowingly refuse to say it? Now if they did refuse, I'd say it was parent manipulation which has dangers to it as well, when the parents know their kids are going to a school and they will be relinquishing their control for about 6 hrs. a day.

There's nothing harmful in saying the pledge. We all know the words. The pledge just shows a unity. It tells us we have something in common. Most kids just know they are all doing the same thing at the same time and that's it. To me it's unity if they are all standing at the same time. I don't think most kids know the patriotism thing, but later in life they will, and the pledge may bring them to get emotional or filled with pride when they hear it. The doing it for so many years is a big part of how we feel about it.

There's nothing unifying about people being forced to do something. Oh look, we're unified in subjugation?

I refused to say the pledge when I came to understand it. My parents had nothing at all to do with it, but even if they had, that certainly would NOT have been dangerous.

And parents do not relinquish control when children go to school. They allow the control to be shared to a certain degree. That doesn't mean that the parents have to agree with everything a school decides to do.

There is nothing at ALL patriotic about forcing children to pledge allegiance to something they do not understand.

Patriotism and unity cannot be forced.

Originally Posted by rivrrat

Originally Posted by reefedjib

My Brother-in-law teaches high school engineering. I mentioned this conversation we are having to him and he LAUGHED. His high school REQUIRES the pledge be made in homeroom, during announcements. He said he has had no one object to it and wonders why they would. I explained you positions. He told me that when it comes time to do the pledge, he stands and faces away from his class. The students are required to do the same, but he said if he even caught a kid not doing it he would get fired, so he chooses to ignore them.

I think we have each explained our position with no resolution possible. Perhaps we could end this discussion and move on.

So, he chooses to ignore the rules his employer set forth, and ignore those who might break the rules, and yet ponders why some might object to those rules to begin with?

Obviously, he objects to the rules too. Otherwise, he'd watch his class and suspend any student who didn't stand up and recite the pledge like a good little nazi.

I found out I got this wrong. The school plays the pledge, but students are NOT REQUIRED to stand for the pledge. It is their choice. If he were to force a student to stand, he would be FIRED, so he ignores them.

I'm ok with that policy, I think.

Originally Posted by reefedjib

I found out I got this wrong. The school plays the pledge, but students are NOT REQUIRED to stand for the pledge. It is their choice. If he were to force a student to stand, he would be FIRED, so he ignores them.

I'm ok with that policy, I think.

I'm fine with that as well, as long as the students know they have the freedom to choose.

Originally Posted by rivrrat

I'm fine with that as well, as long as the students know they have the freedom to choose.

I love it!

Originally Posted by reefedjib

I love it!

I'm all about choice. I care very little about what people choose to do, only that they actually HAVE the choice to begin with.

Originally Posted by rivrrat

I'm all about choice. I care very little about what people choose to do, only that they actually HAVE the choice to begin with.

I'm really into choice myself. Not sure why I took such a hard line on this particular issue. I suspect it is because I didn't want to see things go the other way and not have any choice to make because it wasn't available anymore.

Originally Posted by apdst

They need to carry their ass back where they came from, then, if they can't show a little respect for the country that gave them more freedom than the **** hole they came from.

Again, there is nothing inherently "good" or "bad" about showing respect for one's country. Misplaced jingoism is worse than not showing any respect at all, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Dav

So you're both arguing that the Pledge does nothing.

Why feel so strongly about it then? If it does no harm, why not just let it be?

Thanks all for contributing to this thread. Lots to read in this forum but I like it.

Originally Posted by Arch Enemy

Patriotism is dangerous.

Only to people that hate their country.

I never stood for the flag in my high school years. I was protesting civil rights inequities and the draft for the Vietnam War.

Now I stand to respect others, but I do not recite the pledge. (religious reasons)