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Interesting piece on the state of the DNC

jmotivator

jmotivator

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Democrats in the Wilderness - POLITICO Magazine

"What’s clear from interviews with several dozen top Democratic politicians and operatives at all levels, however, is that there is no comeback strategy—just a collection of half-formed ideas, all of them challenged by reality. And for whatever scheme they come up with, Democrats don’t even have a flag-carrier. Barack Obama? He doesn’t want the job. Hillary Clinton? Too damaged. Bernie Sanders? Too socialist. Joe Biden? Too tied to Obama. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer? Too Washington. Elizabeth Warren? Maybe. And all of them old, old, old."


A quote from one of my favorite movies, MILLER'S CROSSING:

Leo: "Jesus, Tom, you make it sound like it's a bad break for me I wasn't killed."
 
jmotivator said:
Democrats in the Wilderness - POLITICO Magazine

"What’s clear from interviews with several dozen top Democratic politicians and operatives at all levels, however, is that there is no comeback strategy—just a collection of half-formed ideas, all of them challenged by reality. And for whatever scheme they come up with, Democrats don’t even have a flag-carrier. Barack Obama? He doesn’t want the job. Hillary Clinton? Too damaged. Bernie Sanders? Too socialist. Joe Biden? Too tied to Obama. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer? Too Washington. Elizabeth Warren? Maybe. And all of them old, old, old."


A quote from one of my favorite movies, MILLER'S CROSSING:

Leo: "Jesus, Tom, you make it sound like it's a bad break for me I wasn't killed."
Click to expand...
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
 
jmotivator said:
Democrats in the Wilderness - POLITICO Magazine

"What’s clear from interviews with several dozen top Democratic politicians and operatives at all levels, however, is that there is no comeback strategy—just a collection of half-formed ideas, all of them challenged by reality. And for whatever scheme they come up with, Democrats don’t even have a flag-carrier. Barack Obama? He doesn’t want the job. Hillary Clinton? Too damaged. Bernie Sanders? Too socialist. Joe Biden? Too tied to Obama. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer? Too Washington. Elizabeth Warren? Maybe. And all of them old, old, old."


A quote from one of my favorite movies, MILLER'S CROSSING:

Leo: "Jesus, Tom, you make it sound like it's a bad break for me I wasn't killed."
Click to expand...

They are shell shocked and worn out. But with good psychiatrists and 8 years to dwell on defeat. ...
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

I am afraid you are right. In neither case is it at all sure that they can shake the fundamental error that the defining principle of society is for it to assume responsibility at the expense of the Constitution.
 
Just my opinion but the Dems seem to place WAY too much emphasis on wedge issues. It's like building a house on sand.

Equality sounds great and everything but at the end of the day people are more worried about getting a better life for THEMSELVES than they are about whether or not "Johnny" can take a leak in the woman's can because he feels like a woman.
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

True. This piece is much like the doom and gloom pieces written about Republicans in 2009.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Just my opinion but the Dems seem to place WAY too much emphasis on wedge issues. It's like building a house on sand.

Equality sounds great and everything but at the end of the day people are more worried about getting a better life for THEMSELVES than they are about whether or not "Johnny" can take a leak in the woman's can because he feels like a woman.
Click to expand...
Whut?

The economy was front and center throughout the campaign, it was economic inequality....and the Dump made promises to angry rural whites he has no intention of keeping.
 
jmotivator said:
True. This piece is much like the doom and gloom pieces written about Republicans in 2009.
Click to expand...
LOL...so you decided to post an article...that has no validity...in your view.

Well done.
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

The thing is, we don't know what can happen between now and 2020. Look at Donald Trump. Everyone thought the GOP nominee was going to either be Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, or even Scott Walker. Basically, an establishment candidate. And then Trump, originally thought to be a joke, came out of nowhere and steamrolled his way to the nomination and presidency. So anything can happen, even in a short amount of time.

I also know that Americans historically get tired of one political party being in power too long. So even if Trump is successful, I suspect we'll see a Democrat president any way in 2024. Success would get Trump a second term (assuming he runs again), but I doubt it will get him and his party permanent power.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Whut?

The economy was front and center throughout the campaign, it was economic inequality....and the Dump made promises to angry rural whites he has no intention of keeping.
Click to expand...

Hillary's economic message got TOTALLY drowned out by all the noise and rhetoric about "racist this" and "bigot that". What was her economic message, anyway, other than generic platitudes?
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...
What I can say is that Dubya ran the government into the ground which paved the way for Obama. Trump isn't picking the same swamp monsters from the Bush administration so the bumbling incompence shouldn't be repeated.
 
reinoe said:
What I can say is that Dubya ran the government into the ground which paved the way for Obama. Trump isn't picking the same swamp monsters from the Bush administration so the bumbling incompence shouldn't be repeated.
Click to expand...

You're right. He's picking his own batch of swamp monsters.
 
jmotivator said:
True. This piece is much like the doom and gloom pieces written about Republicans in 2009.
Click to expand...
And in 2012/2013.

Articles which claim the doom of one party or another are not worth reading or considering.
Jack Fabulous said:
Hillary's economic message got TOTALLY drowned out by all the noise and rhetoric about "racist this" and "bigot that". What was her economic message, anyway, other than generic platitudes?
Click to expand...
She didn't have one, aside from empty platititudes. In fact, she held very few specific positions that weren't empty platitudes. In fairness, neither did Donald Trump, but when people don't trust you (they don't trust Hillary) and when they make clear they don't want typical politicians, if all you offer is platitudes devoid of any real substance, then you're going to have a lot of trouble.

This election boiled down to which candidate could a voter stomach more. For most people who aren't dedicated to voting for a letter, there wasn't a good candidate in this election, only one which was worse than another. And while more people thought Trump was worse than Hillary, more people in states that mattered more thought Hillary was worse than Trump.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Hillary's economic message got TOTALLY drowned out by all the noise and rhetoric about "racist this" and "bigot that".
Click to expand...
Whoa, hold on cowboy, you jumped off yer "bathroom" argument.....to some other distraction. What's wrong? Can't handle the horse you rode in on?
What was her economic message, anyway, other than generic platitudes?
Click to expand...
I can see that you never paid attention on the first go around when her campaign made it's arguments, and you think you heard her main theme was about bathrooms....and even now when I tried to remind you what it was, you diverted to "racism".....so what is the point, there is zero focus on yer side of the screen.
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

If Trump fails the Democrats have to be perceived as having no part in that failure. They have to be able to stand there and be convincing when they say "It wasn't me!". If they take some kind of action to undermine Trump they'll only turn more independents away from the party.
 
jmotivator said:
Democrats in the Wilderness - POLITICO Magazine

"What’s clear from interviews with several dozen top Democratic politicians and operatives at all levels, however, is that there is no comeback strategy—just a collection of half-formed ideas, all of them challenged by reality. And for whatever scheme they come up with, Democrats don’t even have a flag-carrier. Barack Obama? He doesn’t want the job. Hillary Clinton? Too damaged. Bernie Sanders? Too socialist. Joe Biden? Too tied to Obama. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer? Too Washington. Elizabeth Warren? Maybe. And all of them old, old, old."


A quote from one of my favorite movies, MILLER'S CROSSING:

Leo: "Jesus, Tom, you make it sound like it's a bad break for me I wasn't killed."
Click to expand...

Probably best to just lay back and let the Republicans hang themselves with all that rope they've taken.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Whoa, hold on cowboy, you jumped off yer "bathroom" argument.....to some other distraction. What's wrong? Can't handle the horse you rode in on?I can see that you never paid attention on the first go around when her campaign made it's arguments, and you think you heard her main theme was about bathrooms....and even now when I tried to remind you what it was, you diverted to "racism".....so what is the point, there is zero focus on yer side of the screen.
Click to expand...
Does this mean that you can't articulate her economic plan beyond platitudes?
 
Slyfox696 said:
She didn't have one, aside from empty platititudes. In fact, she held very few specific positions that weren't empty platitudes. In fairness, neither did Donald Trump, but when people don't trust you (they don't trust Hillary) and when they make clear they don't want typical politicians, if all you offer is platitudes devoid of any real substance, then you're going to have a lot of trouble.

This election boiled down to which candidate could a voter stomach more. For most people who aren't dedicated to voting for a letter, there wasn't a good candidate in this election, only one which was worse than another. And while more people thought Trump was worse than Hillary, more people in states that mattered more thought Hillary was worse than Trump.
Click to expand...

This cycle pitted possibly the two worst candidates to ever seek the office against each other. Something had to give.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Does this mean that you can't articulate her economic plan beyond platitudes?
Click to expand...
Why should I, you just got done telling us the main argument was about "wedges", ie, bathrooms. I just gone done telling you it wasn't, you missed it, and NOW yer demanding it to be repeated. For what purpose? It makes no difference to you, it never will. What yer attempting is to test me....but I have no doubt about what the message was. The topic was what you heard, you brought that up. I really have no interested in trying to rectify yer understanding, I'm here countering the idea that "bathrooms" was the focus of her campaign. Were you trapped in an echo chamber?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Why should I, you just got done telling us the main argument was about "wedges", ie, bathrooms. I just gone done telling you it wasn't, you missed it, and NOW yer demanding it to be repeated. For what purpose? It makes no difference to you, it never will. What yer attempting is to test me....but I have no doubt about what the message was. The topic was what you heard, you brought that up. I really have no interested in trying to rectify yer understanding, I'm here countering the idea that "bathrooms" was the focus of her campaign. Were you trapped in an echo chamber?
Click to expand...
I clearly said "wedge issues" and "bathrooms" clearly belong under that umbrella. "Bathrooms" were also a topic that received a great deal attention over the past year with opinions on the matter pretty much divided along party lines.

It's not my fault that you can't seem to come to grips with the fact that a campaign built upon platitudes and wedge issues is a losing formula. It's also not my fault that you can't see that this was exactly the perception held by huge numbers of voters. It isn't what you say that matters, it's what people HEAR that matters.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
It's not my fault that you can't seem to come to grips with the fact that a campaign built upon platitudes and wedge issues is a losing formula.
Click to expand...
What is my fault is thinking I can have a reasonable debate with a poster who only heard about and seems obsessed with trans/bathrooms...and thinks it was what HRC built her campaign on.

My mistake.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
What is my fault is thinking I can have a reasonable debate with a poster who only heard about and seems obsessed with trans/bathrooms...and thinks it was what HRC built her campaign on.

My mistake.
Click to expand...
...AND platitudes.

(they always forget the platitudes)
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems had their chance in Bernie or Biden, as old as they are. I believe either would have prevailed in 2016.

But their perhaps demise is in the hands of Trump & the GOP. If the Trump experiment works, the Dems will remain in trouble. But Trump has the possibility to put the Dems in a position where whoever they run may prevail. Every time the GOP run the government, they get thrown out pretty resoundingly.

We'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

Yup...Trump very well might be the vehicle for the recovery of the Democrat Party.
 
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