• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Might it have been different?

MaggieD said:
If it's true, then the Dems did a terrible job of getting the message out. Terrible.

How can a president fail at that so miserably? The bully pulpit sure wasn't used effectively.
Click to expand...

I believe the country heard the Democrats's message loud and clear and rejected it.
 
apdst said:
One? That all you have? :lamo
Click to expand...

Oh apdst, I don't know why I even bother, your attempts at debate are just so shockingly pathetic.

ZgwIASL.gif
 
apdst said:
Who said he was illegitimate?
Click to expand...

The people claiming that he wasn't a native born citizen. Like Donald Trump for one. How quick our memories fade. Or maybe some of us just chose to remember what makes us feel better about our partisanship.
 
apdst said:
I believe the country heard the Democrats's message loud and clear and rejected it.
Click to expand...

I dunno so much about that. Shillary was a horrible candidate, yet she still got more votes than Trump. And republicans only hold a slim margin in both houses of congress.
 
imagep said:
How is that different than what happened to Obummer?
Click to expand...

Did 10's of thousands of people march in protest of his election? Did people hold major protests against his election? Was large scale civil disobedience planned in D.C. during his inauguration?

Did Hollywood talent role out never ending tirades against Obama? Did the MSM go all out to discredit Obama and lead credence to fake news stories invented to smear him?

Or was it a relatively small group of noisy people who, with some degree of reasonable objection, questioned Obama's purposefully murky background and eligibility?
 
leoborn said:
I just blinked! How much is it going to cost this time? :thumbdown:
Click to expand...

Obama is out in a few days and the republicans control the Senate , the House and the presidency , so you no longer have to worry about COSTS ! :2wave: :lol:
 
ocean515 said:
Did 10's of thousands of people march in protest of his election? Did people hold major protests against his election? Was large scale civil disobedience planned in D.C. during his inauguration?

Did Hollywood talent role out never ending tirades against Obama? Did the MSM go all out to discredit Obama and lead credence to fake news stories invented to smear him?

Or was it a relatively small group of noisy people who, with some degree of reasonable objection, questioned Obama's purposefully murky background and eligibility?
Click to expand...

Did Obama denigrate our democratic system by calling it rigged before a vote was even cast?

Was Obama filmed saying women would let him do anything to them cause he was a star and that he comes after them like a b**** and grabs them by the P****?

Did Obama attack an ex-beauty queen for putting on weight and claim she wasn't any angel so people should look for "the sex tape"?

Did Obama propose kicking out even the immigrants brought here as kids and raised here for years while refering clumsily to Mexicans as rapists?

Did Obama propose banning immigrants based on religion in a country with freedom of religion as one of its core values? Or making members of that religion register?

Did the main stream media not cover the "birther" conspiracy theory for years?

Did 41% of republicans not still believe Obama was definitely not born in the United States as of 08-2016?

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over '''Birther''' Question - NBC News

People didn't protest Obama because he hadn't divided the country to an "unpresidented"( to use Trump's word) extend before he even got into office.
 
Last edited:
vash1012 said:
Did Obama denigrate our democratic system by calling it rigged before a vote was even cast?

Did Obama propose banning immigrants based on religion in a country with freedom of religion as one of its core values? Or making members of that religion register?

Did the main stream media not cover the "birther" conspiracy theory for years?

Did 41% of republicans not still believe Obama was definitely not born in the United States as of 08-2016?

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over '''Birther''' Question - NBC News
Click to expand...

As the emails proved, the democratic system was rigged. Did you miss that?

Why are you attempting to deny Trump clarified the reporters attempt to misrepresent his statement by saying the US needs to ban entry of Muslims from countries known to harbor terrorists until the "we figure out what is going on"? That on the record statement refutes this deceitful talking point the left continually tries to keep alive.

If you read how the media covered the "birther" issue, you will note it was to denigrate the accusers, and not the President they were in full court press to protect and promote. Obama could have silenced the whole thing by taking action much earlier than he did, but he held off for political gain.

And finally, no, 41% of Republicans do not believe Obama was not eligible to serve as President because of his birthplace. The NBC/Survey Monkey polls are deeply flawed and have been proven to be unreliable.

If 10's of millions of voters didn't think Obama was eligible, don't you think they would have spent far more time on the subject over the last 8 years?

Apply so logic to that question.
 
ocean515 said:
As the emails proved, the democratic system was rigged. Did you miss that?

Why are you attempting to deny Trump clarified the reporters attempt to misrepresent his statement by saying the US needs to ban entry of Muslims from countries known to harbor terrorists until the "we figure out what is going on"? That on the record statement refutes this deceitful talking point the left continually tries to keep alive.

If you read how the media covered the "birther" issue, you will note it was to denigrate the accusers, and not the President they were in full court press to protect and promote. Obama could have silenced the whole thing by taking action much earlier than he did, but he held off for political gain.

And finally, no, 41% of Republicans do not believe Obama was not eligible to serve as President because of his birthplace. The NBC/Survey Monkey polls are deeply flawed and have been proven to be unreliable.

If 10's of millions of voters didn't think Obama was eligible, don't you think they would have spent far more time on the subject over the last 8 years?

Apply so logic to that question.
Click to expand...

1. No I did not miss that because that is not what happened. Regardless of attempts by the DNC to promote Clinton, that does not make our democratic system rigged any more than Russia's attempts to promote Trump did. Don't be an idiot.

2. He didn't clarify that for nearly a year. He changed his position after months and months of repeating himself. No one misrepresented his statements when he called in my home state for a TOTAL AND COMPLETE SHUT DOWN OF MUSLIMS ENTERING THIS COUNTRY.

From his website:
"(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

The media is covering Donald Trump's dossier thing just fine. It has infinitely more validity than any assertion that Obama was a kenyan born Muslim anyway. They are reporting the facts. Its unverified. Its political opposition research. Its believed to be being investigated by the FBI and CIA. Buzzfeed should not have released the report, but Buzzfeed is not news. Its a click bait blog that is trying to change into a journalism site.

If you think NBC's polls are way off, provide a more accurate poll.

And no, I don't think the media should have spent more time than they did. They spent years on the subject and it was unfounded and totally wrong to begin with. Only an idiot would believe you can become President of the United States, much less a Senator, without having your identity verified.
 
vash1012 said:
1. No I did not miss that because that is not what happened. Regardless of attempts by the DNC to promote Clinton, that does not make our democratic system rigged any more than Russia's attempts to promote Trump did. Don't be an idiot.

2. He didn't clarify that for nearly a year. He changed his position after months and months of repeating himself. No one misrepresented his statements when he called in my home state for a TOTAL AND COMPLETE SHUT DOWN OF MUSLIMS ENTERING THIS COUNTRY.

From his website:
"(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

The media is covering Donald Trump's dossier thing just fine. It has infinitely more validity than any assertion that Obama was a kenyan born Muslim anyway. They are reporting the facts. Its unverified. Its political opposition research. Its believed to be being investigated by the FBI and CIA. Buzzfeed should not have released the report, but Buzzfeed is not news. Its a click bait blog that is trying to change into a journalism site.

If you think NBC's polls are way off, provide a more accurate poll.

And no, I don't think the media should have spent more time than they did. They spent years on the subject and it was unfounded and totally wrong to begin with. Only an idiot would believe you can become President of the United States, much less a Senator, without having your identity verified.
Click to expand...


Trump corrected the reporters attempt to misrepresent his comments about registration within one day. You are totally incorrect to claim otherwise.

What may be confusing you is Trumps repeated effort to stop the lies being told about his Muslim Registry comments, since Hillary's MSM kept spreading them. I don't dismiss the comments from his website. However, that is not what the left, and Hillary's MSM represented. They said Trump wanted to register all Muslims living in the US, or attempting to enter it.

Hillary purposefully, and by her command, demanded her political machine manipulate the vote, influence the election to her advantage, and she used the MSM to provide unfair advantage to her and her campaign. And all the left wants to talk about is the unproven story that Russia tilted the election towards Trump.

Take your own advice and don't be an idiot. Or at least, don't expect others to adopt this idiotic suggestion.
 
ocean515 said:
Trump corrected the reporters attempt to misrepresent his comments about registration within one day. You are totally incorrect to claim otherwise.

What may be confusing you is Trumps repeated effort to stop the lies being told about his Muslim Registry comments, since Hillary's MSM kept spreading them. I don't dismiss the comments from his website. However, that is not what the left, and Hillary's MSM represented. They said Trump wanted to register all Muslims living in the US, or attempting to enter it.

Hillary purposefully, and by her command, demanded her political machine manipulate the vote, influence the election to her advantage, and she used the MSM to provide unfair advantage to her and her campaign. And all the left wants to talk about is the unproven story that Russia tilted the election towards Trump.

Take your own advice and don't be an idiot. Or at least, don't expect others to adopt this idiotic suggestion.
Click to expand...

You changed your tune from one post to the next as you have to attempt to defend his positions. First, you said:

"Why are you attempting to deny Trump clarified the reporters attempt to misrepresent his statement by saying the US needs to ban entry of Muslims from countries known to harbor terrorists until the "we figure out what is going on"? That on the record statement refutes this deceitful talking point the left continually tries to keep alive."

Now you are talking about something completely different. He didn't clarify this position. He CHANGED his position after repeating it for months. And he CHANGED his position because the media covered it appropriately and the citizens responded.

As far as his Muslim registry comments, you can read the entire outline of all of his comments here. While it is somewhat true, he didn't actively propose the idea. He did not dismiss it and through multiple attempts by multiple reporters, including Fox, to clarify his position, he repeatedly says something that sounds like a yes and something that sounds like a maybe and never once says No. Then he blames the MEDIA for HIM not clarifying his statements coherently. This is the challenge of covering Trump. He says wishy washy vague answers, waits to see how people react, then if its bad enough, he says he never said that and the media is attacking him.

"On ABC News’ This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump, "You did stir up a controversy with those comments over the database. Let's try to clear that up. Are you unequivocally now ruling out a database on all Muslims?"

"No, not at all," Trump responded."

""So the database -- I said yeah, that’s alright fine," he said. "But they also said the wall, and I said the wall, and I was referring to the wall, but database is okay, and watch list is okay, and surveillance is okay."

""Let's hear it directly from you," said host Kimberly Guilfoyle. "Would President Donald Trump support a full Muslim database?"

"Basically the suggestion was made and (it’s) certainly something we should start thinking about," Trump said, repeating that the reporter presented the idea."

"The next day, an MSNBC reporter asked Trump, "Should there be a database or system that tracks Muslims in this country?"

"There should be a lot of systems," Trump responded. "Beyond databases. I mean, we should have a lot of systems."

Trump then digressed to talk about a wall along the southern border, before the reporter interjected, "But that’s something your White House would like to implement."

"I would certainly implement that. Absolutely," Trump said."

In Context: Donald Trump's comments on a database of American Muslims | PolitiFact

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THE MEDIA MISREPRESENTED HIS COMMENTS
 
Last edited:
vash1012 said:
You changed your tune from one post to the next as you have to attempt to defend his positions. First, you said:

"Why are you attempting to deny Trump clarified the reporters attempt to misrepresent his statement by saying the US needs to ban entry of Muslims from countries known to harbor terrorists until the "we figure out what is going on"? That on the record statement refutes this deceitful talking point the left continually tries to keep alive."

Now you are talking about something completely different. He didn't clarify this position. He CHANGED his position after repeating it for months. And he CHANGED his position because the media covered it appropriately and the citizens responded.

As far as his Muslim registry comments, you can read the entire outline of all of his comments here. While it is somewhat true, he didn't actively propose the idea. He did not dismiss it and through multiple attempts by multiple reporters, including Fox, to clarify his position, he repeatedly says something that sounds like a yes and something that sounds like a maybe and never once says No. Then he blames the MEDIA for HIM not clarifying his statements coherently. This is the challenge of covering Trump. He says wishy washy vague answers, waits to see how people react, then if its bad enough, he says he never said that and the media is attacking him.

"On ABC News’ This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump, "You did stir up a controversy with those comments over the database. Let's try to clear that up. Are you unequivocally now ruling out a database on all Muslims?"

"No, not at all," Trump responded."

""So the database -- I said yeah, that’s alright fine," he said. "But they also said the wall, and I said the wall, and I was referring to the wall, but database is okay, and watch list is okay, and surveillance is okay."

""Let's hear it directly from you," said host Kimberly Guilfoyle. "Would President Donald Trump support a full Muslim database?"

"Basically the suggestion was made and (it’s) certainly something we should start thinking about," Trump said, repeating that the reporter presented the idea."

"The next day, an MSNBC reporter asked Trump, "Should there be a database or system that tracks Muslims in this country?"

"There should be a lot of systems," Trump responded. "Beyond databases. I mean, we should have a lot of systems."

Trump then digressed to talk about a wall along the southern border, before the reporter interjected, "But that’s something your White House would like to implement."

"I would certainly implement that. Absolutely," Trump said."

In Context: Donald Trump's comments on a database of American Muslims | PolitiFact

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THE MEDIA MISREPRESENTED HIS COMMENTS
Click to expand...

I didn't change my tone or position. The initial comment about a database was made when a reported cornered Trump while they were walking out of an event.

This has been debated over and over.

FYI, I would question every analysis from the far left Progressive Politifact, so inclusion of their "review" is meaningless.
 
ocean515 said:
I didn't change my tone or position. The initial comment about a database was made when a reported cornered Trump while they were walking out of an event.

This has been debated over and over.

FYI, I would question every analysis from the far left Progressive Politifact, so inclusion of their "review" is meaningless.
Click to expand...

I quoted exactly your words where you changed topics. Anyway, its irrelevant. If you won't even consider a word for word transcript if its written on a "far left Progressive" Politifact site, regardless of the fact that you have links to the videos and audio in the link for the most part and they are available on the internet, then, again, why are you responding? You made a claim. I proved you wrong conclusively to the best of my ability since I don't have a time machine and teleporter and can't go back and record Trump myself. Its documented word for word what he said. Initially, its probably true he misunderstood the question, but he was given MULTIPLE chances to state unequivocally that he wouldn't support a Muslim registry for citizens and HE refused. He said he would "absolutely" consider it. It's vague at times and others he clearly says he would consider a Muslim database for all Muslims. As a reporter, you have to report what they say and, while I'm sure some places reported it as him for sure saying he supported a Muslim database when the actual quote is less clear (because he doesn't make any damn sense), its not a media lie. He actually said it. Its recorded. You are taking his bait hook, line, and sinker. Its really sad.
 
Last edited:
vash1012 said:
I quoted exactly your words where you changed topics. Anyway, its irrelevant. If you won't even consider a word for word transcript if its written on a "far left Progressive" Politifact site, regardless of the fact that you have links to the videos and audio in the link for the most part and they are available on the internet, then, again, why are you responding? You made a claim. I proved you wrong conclusively to the best of my ability since I don't have a time machine and teleporter and can't go back and record Trump myself. Its documented word for word what he said. Initially, its probably true he misunderstood the question, but he was given MULTIPLE chances to state unequivocally that he wouldn't support a Muslim registry for citizens and HE refused. He said he would "absolutely" consider it. It's vague at times and others he clearly says he would consider a Muslim database for all Muslims. As a reporter, you have to report what they say and, while I'm sure some places reported it as him for sure saying he supported a Muslim database when the actual quote is less clear (because he doesn't make any damn sense), its not a media lie. He actually said it. Its recorded. You are taking his bait hook, line, and sinker. Its really sad.
Click to expand...

:roll:

No, what is sad is the continuous effort by the left's MSM partners to misrepresent facts.

Politifact is operated by the Tampa Bay Times, which is published by the Poynter Institute, a far left liberal/socialist progressive organization funded in part by George Soro's and his partners.

As a reporter, they are bound by the unwritten rules of honest journalism, which were completely abandoned by the MSM this election cycle.

Don't feel sad for me, feel sad for yourself.
 
Socrates1 said:
Obama is out in a few days and the republicans control the Senate , the House and the presidency , so you no longer have to worry about COSTS ! :2wave: :lol:
Click to expand...

Yup. The deficit and budget are going to skyrocket. at least that's historically what has always happened under republican leadership. Republicans desire a good economy while in charge, and they are smart enough to realize that deficit spending is good for the economy. that's why they complain about the deficit when we have democrats in charge, but stop complaining when republicans are in charge.
 
imagep said:
Yup. The deficit and budget are going to skyrocket. at least that's historically what has always happened under republican leadership. Republicans desire a good economy while in charge, and they are smart enough to realize that deficit spending is good for the economy. that's why they complain about the deficit when we have democrats in charge, but stop complaining when republicans are in charge.
Click to expand...

Obama added more to the debt than ALL 43 presidents before combined !
 
MaggieD said:
If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare
Click to expand...

Interesting question.

But I cannot answer that counter-factual until you address one that explains why he might not have done so: What if the Republicans had not agreed, before he was even inaugurated, to oppose everything he did, especially "socialist" Obamacare?



But, y'know, he kind of did consult the Republicans. Specifically, he borrowed the main provisions of The Heritage Foundation's plan from the early 90s, which was backed as Republicans as an opposition to the health care reform Bill Clinton sold on behalf of Hillary Clinton.



MaggieD said:
I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.
Click to expand...

Republicans accusing Obama of lying about his Christianity, of lying about his place of birth, of being a socialist, of being racist against white people (because Wright), of hating the US (because Wright), that's all cool?

And despite what you say about whether or not it's cool, how on Earth can you possibly ignore it when looking at Obama's response to them when it comes to legislating?




They reacted to Obama's election even more hysterically than people are reacting to Trump's. It was clear that he wasn't going to get anything done without a massive fight, that they hated him, that they'd oppose everything, so of course he's going to try to maximize D power when he sits down. What else could you or anyone possibly expect?

He'll arrive and sit down to have neutral negotiations with the people who questioned the legitimacy of of his presidency, of his religion, and accused him of being a communist/socialist who hates white people?

:lamo





His failure was not in using that power. His failure was in using it to address health care rather than get the kind of stimulus economists recommended for a much better turnaround: 3x bigger, but actual "shovel-ready jobs". Win there, keep winning. Instead he played right into the Rs' hands. age in greater histrionics. Then you w











(Btw. Can I bookmark this? I just want to see what gets said if Trump and the Rs run roughshod over the Ds, especially if they pick up later seats. I'm sure it'll all get explained as perfectly reasonable and innocent, but I do like getting proven wrong about these things - if I'm proven wrong in such a prediction, my faith in humanity nudges up just a teensy bit).
 
Socrates1 said:
Obama added more to the debt than ALL 43 presidents before combined !
Click to expand...

So?

Reagan was a great president, and he added more debt than ALL the presidents before him also.

The debt doesn't particularly matter, it's just an accounting issue. and is dealt with using accounting entries.

You still gunna be worried about the debt when Trump adds more debt than all the presidents before him, including Reagan and Obama?
 
Last edited:
ocean515 said:
:roll:

No, what is sad is the continuous effort by the left's MSM partners to misrepresent facts.

Politifact is operated by the Tampa Bay Times, which is published by the Poynter Institute, a far left liberal/socialist progressive organization funded in part by George Soro's and his partners.

As a reporter, they are bound by the unwritten rules of honest journalism, which were completely abandoned by the MSM this election cycle.

Don't feel sad for me, feel sad for yourself.
Click to expand...

Blah, Blah, Blah. Alt right conspiracies instead of addressing reality. He said it. Then he blamed it on the media. How about addressing what he actually SAYS. Can you try that for once?
 
ocean515 said:
:roll:

No, what is sad is the continuous effort by the left's MSM partners to misrepresent facts.

Politifact is operated by the Tampa Bay Times, which is published by the Poynter Institute, a far left liberal/socialist progressive organization funded in part by George Soro's and his partners.

As a reporter, they are bound by the unwritten rules of honest journalism, which were completely abandoned by the MSM this election cycle.

Don't feel sad for me, feel sad for yourself.
Click to expand...

""Let's hear it directly from you," said host Kimberly Guilfoyle. "Would President Donald Trump support a full Muslim database?"

"Basically the suggestion was made and (it’s) certainly something we should start thinking about,"

Trump Clarifies He Wants a Database for Refugees, Not All U.S. Muslims | Fox News Insider

You can watch the video from fox news, right there. Given the chance to unequivocally deny he would support a registry for all muslims, he says "its certainly something we should start thinking about" before going on to talk about definitely wanting a registry for Syrian Refugees.

In the original MSNBC report, its fair that when he said he would "absolutely implement that",he may have misunderstood, but he still went on to answer 3-4 more questions about how he would register Muslims. That is not the media's fault. They also printed his twitter statement from the next day about it not being "his suggestion" which also is not a denial that he supports one. What else do you want them to do exactly?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom