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Two Russian Presidents: One Here, One There

Chomsky said:
You don't think those emails had any influence on the election? None?
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why are you so concerned where the emails came from vs what was in them?
I find the content and the attempt to rig an election to a specific candidate more concerning.

instead of being outraged at their own party for attempting to fix an election democrats and the left
are going nuts about where the emails came from.

seriously? I mean seriously?
 
joG said:
In what respect do you think he is illegitimate? True, the information was illegally attained. But it seems to have been correct enough and anyone that was versed in security and intelligence matters or was really interested knew more or less, what was and has beenn going on. Aspects of it had been discussed here in the forum. So, where is the problem besides the data theft?
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There's little doubt in my mind the emails had some effect in the election. The three determinant swing-states were all decided by a 1/2 pt, or less. I think a case can be made that the emails may have shifted the vote a 1/2 point, though there's no way to determine that, nor am I saying that absolutely occurred. I do think it likely was enough to swing the 11K (of 5M cast) that won MI for Trump. Seriously, 11K of 5M is a razor's edge that a slight breeze coulda' blown over!

But regardless, the election was legit in Constitutional terms - and we are thus bound.
 
Chomsky said:
Obama was as legit as the come, with a populace mandate and a 75% incoming approval rating, loved around the world to the point of receiving a Nobel prise!
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He like al gore did nothing to earn that prize it was a joke.

Trump is the antithetical opposite Obama, not winning a majority nor even a plurality! The worst incoming approval-disapproval in history (upside down)! And despised by most of the the world besides Putin, Duterte, and a few like-minded despots.
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Yes he won the majority of the electoral votes. PS Clinton didn't win a majority of the votes either :roll:.
So far he hasn't done anything to be despised you are simply making stuff up.

But ... he is legit in technical and legal terms. He's not legit in terms of the voting populous, but he is in terms of the Constitution. And until/unless that changes, we are bound.
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Yes he is legit in every way even by voting terms LOL that is why he is president.

But there will forever be an asterisk next to his Presidency, especially as more & more is being found-out about the Russian interference. With him so at odds with the majority of Americans, and the GOP controlling all government, and given his personality, including his penchant for desiring extra-Constitutional government prosecution, I fear he will not unite - but govern dictatorially by power. That of course will exasperate this already very troubled situation.
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No there will be no asterisk. There is nothing there for there to be an asterisk for.
Obama already set that precedent by his slew of unconstitutional EO.

let me know when trump gets there.
 
Chomsky said:
There's little doubt in my mind the emails had some effect in the election. The three determinant swing-states were all decided by a 1/2 pt, or less. I think a case can be made that the emails may have shifted the vote a 1/2 point, though there's no way to determine that, nor am I saying that absolutely occurred. I do think it likely was enough to swing the 11K (of 5M cast) that won MI for Trump. Seriously, 11K of 5M is a razor's edge that a slight breeze coulda' blown over!

But regardless, the election was legit in Constitutional terms - and we are thus bound.
Click to expand...

The emails got hacked because Podesta opened a phishing email and changed his password on it, while under the approval of his IT manager during the election campaign. So it was a stupid blunder by the Dems more than anything else.
 
Chomsky said:
There's little doubt in my mind the emails had some effect in the election. The three determinant swing-states were all decided by a 1/2 pt, or less. I think a case can be made that the emails may have shifted the vote a 1/2 point, though there's no way to determine that, nor am I saying that absolutely occurred. I do think it likely was enough to swing the 11K (of 5M cast) that won MI for Trump. Seriously, 11K of 5M is a razor's edge that a slight breeze coulda' blown over!

But regardless, the election was legit in Constitutional terms - and we are thus bound.
Click to expand...

so you are simply throwing out conjecture without evidence good that is basically what the cia and FBI did.

coulda woulda shoulda didn't.

maybe if Clinton had campaigned there she might have won.
 
Chomsky said:
"Deplorables" was Hillary's ridiculous statement, surely not mine or those I know, nor the supporters of her's I know. I'm also smart enough to know most Trump's supporters don't believe they can grab womens' vaginas at will, just because Trump said it.

The deal is: I'm not talking about what the candidates are saying - you are - I'm talking about what the *supporters* are saying.

And yes, rather than come together to rally against this Russian interference, many are seeming celebrating it and cheering it on, or at the least accepting it - in the name of partisanship. To those, I call it anti-American. If you don't believe my feelings in this, look at my posting history to see my love of the Constitution and this country, from the time my family came here from Europe (running from Germany & Russia!). My pop was so happy to be American & have America's freedom, that he patriotically took-up arms for this country - and he wasn't even born here! So this isn't just hollow rhetoric I'm spouting-off.

The influence was political.

There's nothing wrong with skepticism of government, and it should be encouraged. But what I'm seeing here is a blatant disregard for intelligence in the attempts by Russia to influence our election. My family came from Europe, Poland on my Dad's side. We know how Russia acts. This is what they do. They cause pandemonium. Right now Putin & his boys are having orgasms, squealing with delight! You guys are making a deal with the devil. In part due to the guts of some Polish union workers in Gdansk, the U.S.S.R was beaten back 1991. But now, we have a U.S. President giving legitimacy & credibility and rise to the Russian President - a former KYB agent and now head of the SVC!! Argh!

Trump and his pro-Putin supporters are in danger of alienating us from Europe. Why not see what those familiar with Putin opine about this:

Enthusiasm for Trump in Poland Is Tempered by Distrust of Putin
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Irredeemable and Deplorable may be a Hillary statement, but it was taken up by her supporters, the Progressive Machine supporting her run, and her MSM partners.

Add in the rest of what I stated, and I think these accusations are very dangerous.

Politically, they are really dumb.

Notice there is no discussion, hardly a sentence, on why Russia would want Trump over Hillary. It's totally left to subjective opinion.

Why is that?

When you have some time, go back and review intrusions and analysis from the past. Look at what was written. In almost every case there has been considerable thoughtful discussion on the reason certain propaganda efforts were undertaken. It was to influence NATO, or undermine certain political figures in order to accomplish some goal or other.

In this case, there is almost nothing written. About the only thing written is just political hyperbole. Putin and Trump are buddies. That's about it. That is absurd.

So why is the discussion of motive missing? Why is it pretty much papered over?
 
PoS said:
The emails got hacked because Podesta opened a phishing email and changed his password on it, while under the approval of his IT manager during the election campaign. So it was a stupid blunder by the Dems more than anything else.
Click to expand...

The other key is that they interecepted Clintons emails since they were throwing passwords all over the place it seems to be.
they were openly transmitting her password and everything else over the cloud.

how stupid are these people?
 
ludin said:
why are you so concerned where the emails came from vs what was in them?
I find the content and the attempt to rig an election to a specific candidate more concerning.

instead of being outraged at their own party for attempting to fix an election democrats and the left
are going nuts about where the emails came from.

seriously? I mean seriously?
Click to expand...
The Dems are not my party.

And of course, the Dems should be outraged of what occurred within their party.

But, and I say this with no false empathy: The country should be even more outraged at Trump's words and actions concerning the election matter. And I believe that also goes for his supporters that refuse to hold him to task.
 
Chomsky said:
There's little doubt in my mind the emails had some effect in the election. The three determinant swing-states were all decided by a 1/2 pt, or less. I think a case can be made that the emails may have shifted the vote a 1/2 point, though there's no way to determine that, nor am I saying that absolutely occurred. I do think it likely was enough to swing the 11K (of 5M cast) that won MI for Trump. Seriously, 11K of 5M is a razor's edge that a slight breeze coulda' blown over!

But regardless, the election was legit in Constitutional terms - and we are thus bound.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt in my mind that not campaigning in a state, calling folks deplorable and bragging about killing the coal mining industry had more of an impact. There is also no doubt that DNC/MSM collusion to favor Hillary was election meddling.
 
calamity said:
I believe the intelligence report leaked to NBC explains it quite well. You are free to give it a read if you like.
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The intelligence report indicate that Putin tried to influence the election.

The question is to what extent he was successful.
 
haymarket said:
Which was NEVER the intent or included in the scope of the investigation. All that means is they did NOT even consider that question. It does NOT mean that the Russian activities did NOT impact the election voting results.
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Nobody has disputed the truth of what was released.
 
Chomsky said:
The Dems are not my party.

And of course, the Dems should be outraged of what occurred within their party.

But, and I say this with no false empathy: The country should be even more outraged at Trump's words and actions concerning the election matter. And I believe that also goes for his supporters that refuse to hold him to task.
Click to expand...

show me where he did any wrong doing?
you want people to be outraged over something he had no connection with and even the FBI and CIA report state that the hack came from a
piece of Ukrainian software that anyone can download off the internet.

their so called evidence that it was the Russian government and the more outlandish claim that trump was involved by some conspiracy theorists
is all conjecture at this point.
 
Chomsky said:
You don't think those emails had any influence on the election? None?
Click to expand...



If they did, It was fractions of percentages of voters. Keep in mind, the discovery of HRC’s private server had nothing to do with any Russian cyber intrusion. I feel you are missing the obvious because you are such a fan of Obama. I wouldn’t go as far as stating you are a partisan hack but it seams you are excusing the inept and dismal leadership of the last eight years in this country. Yes, I could type pages on this subject followed by pages by you trying to refute my opinion but what’s the point?

Obama got elected because folks yearn for hope and change. But after eight years of broken promises and lies, HRC was just a continuance of that. Folks didn’t need the Russians to tell us that HRC was everything all hate with politicians, she started building on that decades ago when she married Billy-boy.

Know this, From Obama on down the democratic party is doing their level best to put as many boulders in the road of a smooth transition of power as possible. For me It’s expected with Obama, he is a class-less hack that would absolutely put his political agenda ahead of this countries security and wellbeing.
 
ludin said:
He like al gore did nothing to earn that prize it was a joke..
Click to expand...
You're opinion, obviously. You're entitled to it. Thankfully, the Committee - not you - choses, and they disagree with you.

Yes he won the majority of the electoral votes. PS Clinton didn't win a majority of the votes either :roll:.
So far he hasn't done anything to be despised you are simply making stuff up.

Yes he is legit in every way even by voting terms LOL that is why he is president..
Click to expand...
No one's "making stuff up". Trump is the Constitutionally elected President, and you know my post does not deny that - so why portray it as such?


No there will be no asterisk. There is nothing there for there to be an asterisk for.
Obama already set that precedent by his slew of unconstitutional EO.

let me know when trump gets there.
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You're attempting to take this literally, and dispel it.

Of course there will likely always be an asterisk in the footnotes of history amongst many who see Trump's unwillingness to confront the issue. No different than in 2000 when the SC came in, stopped the vote count, and summarily handed the Presidency to Bush. I think it's naive to think history will not remember the Russian interference, even if many disagree on it's effect on the election.
 
PoS said:
The emails got hacked because Podesta opened a phishing email and changed his password on it, while under the approval of his IT manager during the election campaign. So it was a stupid blunder by the Dems more than anything else.
Click to expand...
All true, but that's not the issue at all. The issue isn't even about Russia's actions. The issue is how Trump is handling it, and the way some Americans are responding.
 
ludin said:
so you are simply throwing out conjecture without evidence good that is basically what the cia and FBI did.

coulda woulda shoulda didn't.

maybe if Clinton had campaigned there she might have won.
Click to expand...
To compare my conjecture (though I bet I'm right on MI) to that of the intelligence agencies, appears to be a desperate ploy.
 
Chomsky said:
All true, but that's not the issue at all. The issue isn't even about Russia's actions. The issue is how Trump is handling it, and the way some Americans are responding.
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A year ago had anyone suggested any election result had been changed by foreign intervention there would have been riots in the streets.

Now its totally cool because a gross, stupid, womanizing bully says doesn't believe the FBI...the same FBI he had championed only weeks before when they opened an investigation in Trump's opponent.

This is going to be government by twitter, and the twits will all fall in line. Like slime in a gutter it will adapt to anything.....

Now do you remembering him saying "I could kill someone on Park Avenue and they would still support me"; it was one a very few true statements in the campaign

Ominous words.....and with the power he now has he can wipe out who ever he likes, and simply dismiss the FBI reports as thought it never happened.

Anyone paying attention would know that Putin hates the west and has wanted to deliver a blow to western democracy...and Trump has allowed him a huge one. There will be more
 
ocean515 said:
Irredeemable and Deplorable may be a Hillary statement, but it was taken up by her supporters, the Progressive Machine supporting her run, and her MSM partners.

Add in the rest of what I stated, and I think these accusations are very dangerous.

Politically, they are really dumb.

Notice there is no discussion, hardly a sentence, on why Russia would want Trump over Hillary. It's totally left to subjective opinion.

Why is that?

When you have some time, go back and review intrusions and analysis from the past. Look at what was written. In almost every case there has been considerable thoughtful discussion on the reason certain propaganda efforts were undertaken. It was to influence NATO, or undermine certain political figures in order to accomplish some goal or other.

In this case, there is almost nothing written. About the only thing written is just political hyperbole. Putin and Trump are buddies. That's about it. That is absurd.

So why is the discussion of motive missing? Why is it pretty much papered over?
Click to expand...
You are definitely right in that this thing is going way beyond where it should, but Trump is doing nothing to curtail it. In fact, he's exasperating it!

I think he forgets he never won-over the populace, and is treating the entire country as if it's one of his supporters.

All the guy has to do is take this as seriously as much of the rest of the country, denounce it, let the people know he understands, and that he will get to the bottom of it and attempt his best to see it doesn't happen again.

But rather than come together for the betterment of the country, he is more worried about his perceived legitimacy! Unless he has something more to be worried about? Now that would really be scary stuff, and his lack of actions is only going to cause many to wonder even further.
 
Fearandloathing said:
A year ago had anyone suggested any election result had been changed by foreign intervention there would have been riots in the streets.

Now its totally cool because a gross, stupid, womanizing bully says doesn't believe the FBI...the same FBI he had championed only weeks before when they opened an investigation in Trump's opponent.

This is going to be government by twitter, and the twits will all fall in line. Like slime in a gutter it will adapt to anything.....

Now do you remembering him saying "I could kill someone on Park Avenue and they would still support me"; it was one a very few true statements in the campaign

Ominous words.....and with the power he now has he can wipe out who ever he likes, and simply dismiss the FBI reports as thought it never happened.

Anyone paying attention would know that Putin hates the west and has wanted to deliver a blow to western democracy...and Trump has allowed him a huge one. There will be more
Click to expand...
Please explain the impact of the email leaks on the election results.
 
woodsman said:
If they did, It was fractions of percentages of voters. Keep in mind, the discovery of HRC’s private server had nothing to do with any Russian cyber intrusion. I feel you are missing the obvious because you are such a fan of Obama. I wouldn’t go as far as stating you are a partisan hack but it seams you are excusing the inept and dismal leadership of the last eight years in this country. Yes, I could type pages on this subject followed by pages by you trying to refute my opinion but what’s the point?

Obama got elected because folks yearn for hope and change. But after eight years of broken promises and lies, HRC was just a continuance of that. Folks didn’t need the Russians to tell us that HRC was everything all hate with politicians, she started building on that decades ago when she married Billy-boy.

Know this, From Obama on down the democratic party is doing their level best to put as many boulders in the road of a smooth transition of power as possible. For me It’s expected with Obama, he is a class-less hack that would absolutely put his political agenda ahead of this countries security and wellbeing.
Click to expand...


"It was fractions of percentages of voters"


Show the proof of that statement.

Obviously all the flag waving and bomb bursting in air songs are all show, no go.

In effect, with that statement, you are saying you don't give a **** about democracy, only getting your way, and to hell with the way we won.

You got spied on dude. Russia just went trough all your panties and changed the outcome of an election in a nation that claims of itself the greatest democracy in the world, is actually a corroded and corrupt system that's needed changes for a hundred years. Moscow took advantage of that and stupid Trump to show the world they are the real tough guys...the USA is irrelevant.
 
Chomsky said:
You are definitely right in that this thing is going way beyond where it should, but Trump is doing nothing to curtail it. In fact, he's exasperating it!

I think he forgets he never won-over the populace, and is treating the entire country as if it's one of his supporters.

All the guy has to do is take this as seriously as much of the rest of the country, denounce it, let the people know he understands, and that he will get to the bottom of it and attempt his best to see it doesn't happen again.

But rather than come together for the betterment of the country, he is more worried about his perceived legitimacy! Unless he has something more to be worried about? Now that would really be scary stuff, and his lack of actions is only going to cause many to wonder even further.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you just aren't aware, but this entire issue is being drummed up by your masters to achieve one thing: question his legitimacy. Not one email to of from Hillary was released. Please explain how this cause Hillary to lose Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Thanks.
 
Chomsky said:
But what I'm seeing here is a blatant disregard for intelligence in the attempts by Russia to influence our election. My family came from Europe, Poland on my Dad's side. We know how Russia acts. This is what they do. They cause pandemonium. Right now Putin & his boys are having orgasms, squealing with delight! You guys are making a deal with the devil. In part due to the guts of some Polish union workers in Gdansk, the U.S.S.R was beaten back 1991. But now, we have a U.S. President giving legitimacy & credibility and rise to the Russian President - a former KYB agent and now head of the SVC!! Argh!

Trump and his pro-Putin supporters are in danger of alienating us from Europe. Why not see what those familiar with Putin opine about this:

Enthusiasm for Trump in Poland Is Tempered by Distrust of Putin
Click to expand...

Look-- it's ridiculous for Trump and his supporters to claim that Putin is too upstanding a gentleman to try to influence an American election.
But it is also ridiculous to listen to Democrats sound like cold warriors, after eight years of silence following Putin's various depredations.

The reason why Trump supporters suddenly sound like they think that Putin should be on mt. Rushmore, is because it's clear the Democrats are trying to delegitimize Trump's election. They're hostility to Putin is for simple domestic political consumption, it's not sincere. The folks in Poland and Europe need to understand this.
 
MaggieD said:
So what did Putin do to influence our election? Please be specific...if you can. And why is it our government basically ignored it until the election was over? And what are they doing RIGHT NOW to make sure it's stopped? Please advise if John Podesta has changed his password yet.

From PASSWORD.

Must've been reeeeally worried, huh??
Click to expand...

What? Come on!

President Obama didn't want to interfere in the election. Unfortunately, that didn't stop Comey and Putin from meddling.

But most importantly, Podesta didn't deserve to be hacked because he allegedly had a poor password.
 
Fearandloathing said:
"It was fractions of percentages of voters"


Show the proof of that statement.

Obviously all the flag waving and bomb bursting in air songs are all show, no go.

In effect, with that statement, you are saying you don't give a **** about democracy, only getting your way, and to hell with the way we won.

You got spied on dude. Russia just went trough all your panties and changed the outcome of an election in a nation that claims of itself the greatest democracy in the world, is actually a corroded and corrupt system that's needed changes for a hundred years. Moscow took advantage of that and stupid Trump to show the world they are the real tough guys...the USA is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof of the bolded? ANY? No, you do not.
 
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