Easy way to deport illegals, but right wingers won't like it!!!!!!

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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why dont you just pass laws which prohibit the hiring of illegals, by placing very heavy fines first on business and if they repeat the offense take away their business license.

illegals will leave if they cannot get a job and support themselves, ....self deportation

My method would be to grant citizenship to illegals who serve a specific number of community service hours building the wall. This way, Mexico will pay for the wall, the wall gets built, and we won't have as many illegals to deal with.

Your 'solution' of course only inconveniences the 99% of us who are not illegals. And there's already a federal database of fingerprints that most are on since they were school kids, and for any job you need a card known as social security (and often birth certificate). There are a few jobs that should require fingerprinting, but being a waiter? Guess what, people find ways around laws, they go underground. Often this means exploitation, using child labor and paying sub minimum wage in cash (also illegal), but obviously you don't care about that.

So do non illegals, all the time. That child labor paid in cash? Saw it firsthand at a local restaurant with an american kid. He was also smoking and drinking at the bar right in front of the owner. Tons of citizens i know made $$ online and never reported it on taxes. It'd be easy as hell to get around your ID for housing law for both sides, the same way people on SSI disability have someone else buy them property, and how would this not be thrown out by a judge since people have a right to sell their own property to anyone? You don't have to be a citizen to buy property, look at all the chinese land grabbing in california. You just can't enter or stay in the country without a visa / passport, and it's on the fed to enforce that, not everyday people

Any policy that tries to combat human nature is doomed to fail. Just look at those fleeing syria in rafts. A wall is never going to work. I don't see where we get off trying either, being a nation of immigrants that slaughtered the natives

Master PO said:

why dont you just pass laws which prohibit the hiring of illegals, by placing very heavy fines first on business and if they repeat the offense take away their business license.

illegals will leave if they cannot get a job and support themselves, ....self deportation

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The problem is 60% or so of migrants coming into California have "documents".

Forged, but they have them.

The employers have to play detective with the documents.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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What? :doh

Chomsky said:

What? :doh

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Nuff said. Not much more to say than what you did.

Master PO said:

why dont you just pass laws which prohibit the hiring of illegals, by placing very heavy fines first on business and if they repeat the offense take away their business license.

illegals will leave if they cannot get a job and support themselves, ....self deportation

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This. This is the easy low-cost solution to the illegal immigration problem. My dad told me a story once about how when he was a kid it was really easy to buy beer when you were under age. There were 3 or 4 stores in the very small town he grew up in that would sell to people they knew were minors. The punishment back then for selling to minors was just a relatively small fine, and the store owners made more money selling to minors than the fine cost them, so it was beneficial to break the law. Then at some point, they upped the penalty, and now selling to minors can result in a much stiffer fine and the loss of your liquor license. And now there are far fewer stores who will knowingly sell to minors. The same logic could be applied to the hiring of illegal aliens.

But it would be seen as anti-business, so those on the right aren't likely to support it.

molten_dragon said:

This. This is the easy low-cost solution to the illegal immigration problem. My dad told me a story once about how when he was a kid it was really easy to buy beer when you were under age. There were 3 or 4 stores in the very small town he grew up in that would sell to people they knew were minors. The punishment back then for selling to minors was just a relatively small fine, and the store owners made more money selling to minors than the fine cost them, so it was beneficial to break the law. Then at some point, they upped the penalty, and now selling to minors can result in a much stiffer fine and the loss of your liquor license. And now there are far fewer stores who will knowingly sell to minors. The same logic could be applied to the hiring of illegal aliens.

But it would be seen as anti-business, so those on the right aren't likely to support it.

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Absolutely. HEAVILY fine any store or company that hires an illegal. Make the fine so hefty that it seriously hurts. This is the best solution to curbing the influx of illegals. If they can't make money, they won't come.

chromium said:

Your 'solution' of course only inconveniences the 99% of us who are not illegals. And there's already a federal database of fingerprints that most are on since they were school kids, and for any job you need a card known as social security (and often birth certificate). There are a few jobs that should require fingerprinting, but being a waiter? Guess what, people find ways around laws, they go underground. Often this means exploitation, using child labor and paying sub minimum wage in cash (also illegal), but obviously you don't care about that.

So do non illegals, all the time. That child labor paid in cash? Saw it firsthand at a local restaurant with an american kid. He was also smoking and drinking at the bar right in front of the owner. Tons of citizens i know made $$ online and never reported it on taxes. It'd be easy as hell to get around your ID for housing law for both sides, the same way people on SSI disability have someone else buy them property, and how would this not be thrown out by a judge since people have a right to sell their own property to anyone? You don't have to be a citizen to buy property, look at all the chinese land grabbing in california. You just can't enter or stay in the country without a visa / passport, and it's on the fed to enforce that, not everyday people

Any policy that tries to combat human nature is doomed to fail. Just look at those fleeing syria in rafts. A wall is never going to work. I don't see where we get off trying either, being a nation of immigrants that slaughtered the natives

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I agree. You can't do a fingerprint so you just go under the table and once you get paid in cash, there's a lot of people out there who will work with cash instead of the government.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home.

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Well that’s not deporting them, just seeking to make daily life so difficult that they’d want to leave.

I think you’d face all sorts of practical problems. You’d be requiring every single employer, private renter, casual car-seller etc. to purchase the necessary equipment and establish the connectivity to the national registry. In some places that would be literally impossible and even with a relatively low individual cost, the overall expenditure at the national level would be massive. That’s even before we consider the infrastructure necessarily for a database of hundreds of millions of fingerprints that would be at the same time secure and available nationwide.

And after all that, would it really work? I suspect there’d be lots of people determined to remain in the country and lots of people happy to profit from their desire to do so to see plenty of people circumventing the rules in all sorts of imaginative ways. It’s not as if there aren’t already thriving black markets and unofficial employment available for them to make use of. On the flip side, there would inevitably be difficulties and complications, due to technical issues, human error or practical complications which mean an not insignificant number of perfectly innocent people would be significantly impacted.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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That is a totalitarian's wet dream.

Too much potential for abuse to turn off access to services to ones enemies. Citizens should be able to live off the grid if they want. The USD, or some means of carrying value should always be legal tender. One should always be able to trade something valuable for the means to buy things they need.

HonestJoe said:

Well that’s not deporting them, just seeking to make daily life so difficult that they’d want to leave.

I think you’d face all sorts of practical problems. You’d be requiring every single employer, private renter, casual car-seller etc. to purchase the necessary equipment and establish the connectivity to the national registry. In some places that would be literally impossible and even with a relatively low individual cost, the overall expenditure at the national level would be massive. That’s even before we consider the infrastructure necessarily for a database of hundreds of millions of fingerprints that would be at the same time secure and available nationwide.

And after all that, would it really work? I suspect there’d be lots of people determined to remain in the country and lots of people happy to profit from their desire to do so to see plenty of people circumventing the rules in all sorts of imaginative ways. It’s not as if there aren’t already thriving black markets and unofficial employment available for them to make use of. On the flip side, there would inevitably be difficulties and complications, due to technical issues, human error or practical complications which mean an not insignificant number of perfectly innocent people would be significantly impacted.

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That's just it. These conservatives / xenophobes just want to put out all these restrictions without any willingness to foot the bill. If they want to solve this imaginary problem so bad, they can prove it by funding these mass deportations and national registries. Not with federal debt that will never be paid, since they also claim to hate leeches, but like a gofundme

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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Oh yes, another government list...that will solve things!

CaptainCourtesy said:

Absolutely. HEAVILY fine any store or company that hires an illegal. Make the fine so hefty that it seriously hurts. This is the best solution to curbing the influx of illegals. If they can't make money, they won't come.

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I completely agree Captain. However, as an employer burdened with the task of playing ICE enforcer, a simple, robust system to check legal to work status is critical. In order to protect employers like myself from the fraud illegals commit on a regular basis via stolen identities, etc., an E-Verify system must be part of this effort.

If E-Verify signals no issue, at least a legitimate employer can demonstrate they did everything they could to hire legal workers.

After that, I would like to see draconian penalties levied against employers who knowingly hire illegal workers. The fines should be dramatic, and cumulative. They should not be dischargeable via bankruptcy, etc.. They should include asset forfeiture of personal property regardless of business structure, meaning they should be able to pierce the Corporate Shield. Mandatory jail time should also be part of the penalty, and should be cumulative based on each case where conviction resulted from the actions.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Absolutely. HEAVILY fine any store or company that hires an illegal. Make the fine so hefty that it seriously hurts. This is the best solution to curbing the influx of illegals. If they can't make money, they won't come.

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I would change that to "knowingly" hires an illegal.

The employer does not have at his disposal the manner in which to verify if the documents he was given are authentic.

If the IRS was concerned about this they would red flag very quickly any number that has multiple payment being made to it and send out a team to investigate, but they don't.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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I would be okay with that program, however the biometrics, thumb scanners and databases are not cheap as you suggest. However the system we have now "E-verify" is workable. It does not work when we have a moron president like Obama who has no intention of enforcing it. That should change when Trump takes office. And setting up sanctuary cities should be a felony.

Master PO said:

why dont you just pass laws which prohibit the hiring of illegals, by placing very heavy fines first on business and if they repeat the offense take away their business license.

illegals will leave if they cannot get a job and support themselves, ....self deportation

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I'm for that. But the problem is that employers always have the plausible deniability. "They showed me an SS card." I believe it was Arizona that put in place a law for employers enroll in e-verify to check if employees were legal. Almost none did. Right now employers can just play dumb as an out. They don't HAVE to e-verify so they simply say, "they showed me a SS card" then not e-verify it and say they didn't knowingly hire them.

Their is a billion dollar industry in Southern California that makes fake id's. The thumb print registry would make fakes imposwible

CaptainCourtesy said:

Absolutely. HEAVILY fine any store or company that hires an illegal. Make the fine so hefty that it seriously hurts. This is the best solution to curbing the influx of illegals. If they can't make money, they won't come.

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Some of the current fines are pretty hefty, that said, If the enforcement branch has It’s hands tied by an administration that doesn’t wish to enforce current laws what is the point? Directives and pressure has been brought against Boarder control agencies to “look the other way”. There is also the false identity market, for less than a hundred dollars you can get basic ID’s that meet the stipulations for employment.

I personally loath the idea of a big brother type ID but aren’t we being pushed into this direction? The mismanagement of our immigration policies have been going on for decades and no one political party has clean hands with this.

Having punitive fines is great, I agree, but if you don’t have the staff/agencies to enforce it what is the point. If you have the staff but have directives not to cross certain lines with enforcement, again, what is the point.

NonoBadDog said:

Nuff said. Not much more to say than what you did.

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Sometimes brevity speaks volumes ...

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry.

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Sure, that'll work. It's not like employers can pay people without putting it on the books.

Oh, wait.

To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader.

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Unauthorized immigrants don't need bank accounts, credit cards, or loans.

You can rent a room with cash. You can buy a car with cash. You can buy food with cash.

The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question.

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Fingerprint readers are cheap. Building a secure national infrastructure that can't be hacked is not cheap.

We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency.

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Yes, because government functions like that never expand their reach. It's not like anyone could possibly require a fingerprint for firearm purchases, or for crossing state borders, or identification in a protest, or have that print available to law enforcement for fishing expeditions....

This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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Democrats don't want mass deportations, because they know it won't work, will be harmful for the economy, will result in genuine citizens getting deported, and is a human rights nightmare. To wit: "Operation Wetback" was all of those things, and a total failure, as evidenced by the continued waves of unauthorized immigration.

The Republican party has vacillated between its nativist impulses, and its recognition that minorities don't like being vilified, along with how big agricultural and business interests don't want to lose that cheap labor.

Ironically, the best way to tamp down unauthorized immigration is to improve the quality of life in those migrant nations, which means.... improving trade relations with Mexico, and building factories in Mexico, so that Mexicans have better incentives to stay in Mexico. Good luck pushing that agenda in 2017. :mrgreen:

Sorry, but there is no easy solution to kicking 11 million people out of the US.

independentusa said:

I have said this before, but will say it again, there is an easy way to deport illegals. It takes only two things, a national or state Id card and a Federal thumb print registry. To get a job, rent or buy a place to live, to bank, to get a credit card or a loan, to buy a vehicle, anything to be able to live in this country you would have to show your ID card and them place your thumb on a finger print reader. The readers are relatively cheap and if the registry knows which print it is looking for, it can identify the person in question. Without the ability to get a job or find a place to live, the 11 million illegals in this country would just have to go to their original home. We could insure by law that the thumb print registry could only be used for limited indentification purposes and be off limits to law inforement or any other goverment agency. This would be a cheap way of deporting illegals, but it will never happen. that is because neither party actually wants to deport the illegals. It is a great issue for both parties, kind of like abortion.

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There are already laws on the books that anyone in the country illegally will be deported. There are already laws on the books making it illegal to hire somebody in the country illegally. Those laws are either not enforced at all but or are only enforced in a token manner. And unless we put a government into Washington and our state houses with some guts and integrity, more draconian laws would not be enforced either.

During my time as a work comp adjuster, I had claims with illegals all the time. They frequently were using three or more social security numbers, all made up out of thin air or stolen from somebody, never produced a verifiable physical address or phone number, but all had a P.O.Box or some means to receive government or insurance checks. One guy was receiving weekly work comp compensation for a semi-permanent disability that didn't seem to affect his ability to work but he was entitled to it anyway.

At one point he assaulted and beat up an old woman who he was renting a room from, threw her unconscious into the back yard, completely trashed the house with graffiti and filth, tied up her little dog, threw it in the bathtub, doused it with kerosine, and set it on fire. He was caught and convicted of those crimes and sentenced to prison. And I was required to send his work comp checks to him in prison.

I am quite sure that he is out of prison now and still living somewhere here in Albuquerque with us being a sanctuary state and all and still receiving those work comp checks, getting free medical, and whatever other benefits are available to him.

There is something very very wrong with that.

molten_dragon said:

This. This is the easy low-cost solution to the illegal immigration problem. My dad told me a story once about how when he was a kid it was really easy to buy beer when you were under age. There were 3 or 4 stores in the very small town he grew up in that would sell to people they knew were minors. The punishment back then for selling to minors was just a relatively small fine, and the store owners made more money selling to minors than the fine cost them, so it was beneficial to break the law. Then at some point, they upped the penalty, and now selling to minors can result in a much stiffer fine and the loss of your liquor license. And now there are far fewer stores who will knowingly sell to minors. The same logic could be applied to the hiring of illegal aliens.

But it would be seen as anti-business, so those on the right aren't likely to support it.

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There is at least one person on the right who seems to support this:

9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration/

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CaptainCourtesy said:

Absolutely. HEAVILY fine any store or company that hires an illegal. Make the fine so hefty that it seriously hurts. This is the best solution to curbing the influx of illegals. If they can't make money, they won't come.

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Well, it doesn't stop people who are coming here specifically for criminal activities, but for the rest, yes. Give businesses a three strikes system. We need to have INS auditors, just like we have fire departments checking compliance and health inspectors checking compliance. Every business gets hit at least once a year. Any illegal found working for a company costs the company $10k for a first strike. If inspectors come back and find any more, it's a $100k fine per offense. On a third offense, the business is simply shut down and those responsible for hiring or overseeing hiring are put in prison. No business is going to employ illegals if they are facing millions of dollars in potential fines.