What a majority of Trump voters think about Obama's presidency!

independentusa · Dec 22, 2016

Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. Many cons are saying that the imrovement is due to Trumps's election, but most, if not all, of the improvement has occurred under Obama. So once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

11Bravo · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. Many cons are saying that the imrovement is due to Trumps's election, but most, if not all, of the improvement has occurred under Obama. So once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

obama created an america where everyone hates cops, rioting is encouraged, and its ok to burn down small businesses because blm says so.

Ikari · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. Many cons are saying that the imrovement is due to Trumps's election, but most, if not all, of the improvement has occurred under Obama. So once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

Obama was status quo Republocrat. Trump not as much, but the ends he seems to be pushing towards (the Corporate State) are where the status quo Republocrats were taking us, though be it at a slower pace.

Captain Adverse · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

Yes, many do argue about what "unemployment numbers" mean, and for good reason. :yes:

For example:

Since February 2009, the first full month of Obama’s presidency, 9,549,000 people have left the labor force. There were 80,387,000 Americans not working that month, compared with 89,936,000 not working or looking today, according to the latest economic release from BLS.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) labels people who are unemployed and no longer looking for work as “not in the labor force,” and that includes people who have retired on schedule, taken early retirement, or simply given up looking for work.

9.5 Million People Have Left the Workforce Under Obama

Yes, there are people in that number who retired normally (ages 65 - 67 depending on ones birthdate); but there are also people in that number who have retired early (aged 62.5).

Now in general Americans are living longer, healthier lives and remain fully capable of working. As a result there is some argument to increase the Social Security retirement age to 70. There are also issues with people who retire early, as many are often either State employees whose governments are trying to reduce retirement plan benefits to save money, or employers forcing early retirement options to cut labor costs. They can still work, but they either don't want to lose maximum benefits, or don't want to be fired and trying to compete for work with younger applicants until they qualify for their retirement benefits.

The other issue is with people who "simply stop looking for work" because they can't find work after dropping off the unemployment rolls when their unemployment benefits end.

Then there are the underemployed. People who work part-time, seasonally, or for temporary employment agencies. They cause the numbers to go up and down regularly. They also show up as tax burdens through the Food Stamp and other government programs. Not earning enough to pay living expenses. But that's okay because "they're employed." :roll:

Then there is the problem with outsourcing and automation which have and will continue to cut into full time employment figures into the future if something isn't done.

I could go on and on but I'd say your point that "many argue what the unemployment numbers mean" is gross understatement.

The people who are complaining are the people who either lost their jobs and remain unemployed/under-employed, or in fear of losing their jobs in the not too distant future.

They have expressed a very real fear in each case.

Fearandloathing · Dec 22, 2016

Captain Adverse said:
Yes, many do argue about what "unemployment numbers" mean, and for good reason.

For example:

9.5 Million People Have Left the Workforce Under Obama

So there are people in that number who retired normally (ages 65 - 67 depending on ones birthdate), but there are also people in that number who have retired early (aged 62.5). In general Americans are living longer, healthier lives and as a result there is some argument to increase the Social Security retirement age to 70. The issue is with people who retire early, often State employees whose governments are trying to reduce retirement plan benefits to save money, or employers forcing early retirement options to cut labor costs.

The other issue is with people who can't find work and drop off the unemployment rolls when their unemployment benefits end.

Then there are the underemployed. People who work part-time, seasonally, or for temporary employment agencies. They cause the numbers to go up and down regularly.

Then there is the problem with outsourcing and automation which have and will continue to cut into full time employment figures into the future if something isn't done.

I could go on and on but I'd say your point that "many argue what the unemployment numbers mean" is gross understatement.

The people who are complaining are the people who either lost their jobs and remain unemployed/under-employed, or in fear of losing their jobs in the not too distant future.

They have expressed a very real fear in each case.

They've drank a lot of cool aid.

Figures lie and liars figure, Trump is a liar - undisputed - so anything that comes out of that camp is likely part of a lie, thus not worthy of consideration.

Unless you're trying to make the claim Trump never lies........

katzgar · Dec 22, 2016

11Bravo said:
obama created an america where everyone hates cops, rioting is encouraged, and its ok to burn down small businesses because blm says so.

your comments couldnt be further from the truth

Velvet Elvis · Dec 22, 2016

katzgar said:
your comments couldnt be further from the truth

Can you explain how, during the Obama administration, racism was diminished? The man relied on racism to get elected. He relied on racism to get his message across.

tres borrachos · Dec 22, 2016

11Bravo said:
obama created an america where everyone hates cops, rioting is encouraged, and its ok to burn down small businesses because blm says so.

I don't hate cops.

Manc Skipper · Dec 22, 2016

Velvet Elvis said:
Can you explain how, during the Obama administration, racism was diminished? The man relied on racism to get elected. He relied on racism to get his message across.

He was dogged by racists from the start, irate that he had won, and horrified that a black man was their President.

Mason66 · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. Many cons are saying that the imrovement is due to Trumps's election, but most, if not all, of the improvement has occurred under Obama. So once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

Why do you start an OP with such a stupid title?

How could you possible know what the majority of anybody thinks?

Mason66 · Dec 22, 2016

Manc Skipper said:
He was dogged by racists from the start, irate that he had won, and horrified that a black man was their President.

Do you have any proof of that or are you trying to rewrite history before it has been written?

Manc Skipper · Dec 22, 2016

Mason66 said:
Do you have any proof of that or are you trying to rewrite history before it has been written?

How did someone dedicatedly blind and deaf gain typing skills?

Mason66 · Dec 22, 2016

Manc Skipper said:
How did someone dedicatedly blind and deaf gain typing skills?

Just show one case, just one, where racists went after Obama.

Hasn't this election shown you to talk correctly to your betters?

Personal insults are uncalled for, especially by you.

Grim17 · Dec 22, 2016

Mason66 said:
Do you have any proof of that or are you trying to rewrite history before it has been written?

They have to believe that... Their ideological existence depends on it.

Manc Skipper · Dec 22, 2016

Mason66 said:
Just show one case, just one, where racists went after Obama.

Hasn't this election shown you to talk correctly to your betters?

Personal insults are uncalled for, especially by you.

Betters? You're so funny I nearly laughed.

pinqy · Dec 22, 2016

Captain Adverse said:
Yes, many do argue about what "unemployment numbers" mean, and for good reason. :yes:

For example:

9.5 Million People Have Left the Workforce Under Obama

That article is mistaken. It is true that from January 2009 to April 2013, the number of people Not in the Labor Force increased by 9.5 million. But that doesn't mean that 9.5 million left the labor force. First the 9.5 million is the net change, second, not everyone who leaves the labor force become "not in the labor force" (many leave the population as well), and third, many (most) people entering the population as not in the labor force.

Yes, there are people in that number who retired normally (ages 65 - 67 depending on ones birthdate); but there are also people in that number who have retired early (aged 62.5).

Now in general Americans are living longer, healthier lives and remain fully capable of working. As a result there is some argument to increase the Social Security retirement age to 70. There are also issues with people who retire early, as many are often either State employees whose governments are trying to reduce retirement plan benefits to save money, or employers forcing early retirement options to cut labor costs. They can still work, but they either don't want to lose maximum benefits, or don't want to be fired and trying to compete for work with younger applicants until they qualify for their retirement benefits.

Why do you think it makes a difference why someone chooses not to look for work? They aren't participating in the labor market, they're not competing for work, they are not available labor.

The other issue is with people who "simply stop looking for work" because they can't find work after dropping off the unemployment rolls when their unemployment benefits end.

Why would someone who is no longer receiving benefits stop looking for work? I would think they'd try even harder.

Then there are the underemployed. People who work part-time, seasonally, or for temporary employment agencies. They cause the numbers to go up and down regularly.

No they don't, except for seasonal employment and the data are seasonally adjusted.

They also show up as tax burdens through the Food Stamp and other government programs. Not earning enough to pay living expenses. But that's okay because "they're employed."

Who says that? The labor force classifications aren't value judgements.

Then there is the problem with outsourcing and automation which have and will continue to cut into full time employment figures into the future if something isn't done.

All of which would be reflected in the labor force stats.

The people who are complaining are the people who either lost their jobs and remain unemployed/under-employed, or in fear of losing their jobs in the not too distant future.

They have expressed a very real fear in each case.[/QUOTE]

Velvet Elvis · Dec 22, 2016

Manc Skipper said:
He was dogged by racists from the start, irate that he had won, and horrified that a black man was their President.

This doesn't explain how Obama did something positive for race relations. You just spewed out cookie-cutter liberal talking points.

independentusa · Dec 22, 2016

Whatthe hell does that have to do with the unemployment numbers or the stoock market. Once agains when you can't argue agaist the facts you throw out a red herring to change the subject.

independentusa · Dec 22, 2016

You do realize that as America ages people will be leaving the work force. More than a million a month.

independentusa · Dec 22, 2016

again, chaning the subject of the original post.

Captain Adverse · Dec 22, 2016

pinqy said:
That article is mistaken. It is true that from January 2009 to April 2013, the number of people Not in the Labor Force increased by 9.5 million. But that doesn't mean that 9.5 million left the labor force. 1. First the 9.5 million is the net change, 2. second, not everyone who leaves the labor force become "not in the labor force" (many leave the population as well), 3. and third, many (most) people entering the population as not in the labor force.

1. Net change of what?

2. They don't count "dead people" in unemployment statistics. I don't believe they count people who give up their citizenship and leave the country either. If you are employed overseas you still pay Expatriate income tax.

3. What?

pinqy said:
Why do you think it makes a difference why someone chooses not to look for work? They aren't participating in the labor market, they're not competing for work, they are not available labor.

(Sigh) They ARE available labor, just not working. It could be because they started school, it could be because they became the stay-at-home parent, or it could be because they can't get hired due to age, sex, criminal or drug history, or their skill-set is no longer in demand.

pinqy said:
Why would someone who is no longer receiving benefits stop looking for work? I would think they'd try even harder.

There is no method of tracking who is "seeking" work. Employers don't register everyone who applies for work with the Federal government. However, as long as they are on unemployment benefits the presumption is that they are looking for work. In fact, States typically require claimant's maintain work search records available for inspection at any time.

pinqy said:
No they don't, except for seasonal employment and the data are seasonally adjusted.

:doh

What did you think my statement "numbers go up and down regularly" means?

pinqy said:
Who says that? The labor force classifications aren't value judgements.

Who says what? That there are a sizeable number of "employed" on food stamps? I just said that. Didn't you read it?

pinqy said:
All of which would be reflected in the labor force stats.

Yes, in the ongoing loss of jobs.

Chomsky · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
again, chaning the subject of the original post.

Uh, have you considered using the "Reply With Quote" function icon?

countryboy · Dec 22, 2016

independentusa said:
Donald Trump Voters Live in Alternate Reality – Atlantic Sentinel
I have often said that many of the American public are either stupid or very uninformed. I hope it is the later, but this article shows that they believe whatever Trunp and his cronies tell them. Now I am not a real Obama lover, thinking him very, very weak for most of his time as president. I do know the facts as they apply to his improvement of the economy. It is almost impossible to think that a majority of Trump voters can believe what they do about those facts. Many argue what the unemployment numbers mean, but the idea that they haven't improved under Obama is almost insane. And when we look at the stock market, well, the numbers speak for themselves. Many cons are saying that the imrovement is due to Trumps's election, but most, if not all, of the improvement has occurred under Obama. So once again I say, many of the American public are either stupid or uninformed, I don't know which is worse.

Oh look, another bogus poll claiming 1,200 is 50% of 62 million. :roll:

Good grief, libs will believe anything. :doh

TheGoverness · Dec 22, 2016

Chomsky said:
Uh, have you considered using the "Reply With Quote" function icon?

He probably had no idea it existed.

pinqy · Dec 22, 2016

Captain Adverse said:
1. Net change of what?

The number of people not in the labor force. For the reference week of the Current Population Survey, if the respondent owned a business/farm, worked at least one hour for pay (or was temporarily absent from a steady job) or worked at least 15 hours unpaid in a family business/farm, she is Employed. If she did not work, but could have accepted a job if offered and looked for work in the last 4 weeks, she is unemployed. If neither of those two cases apply, the person is "Not in the labor force."

So the 9.5 million was the net change in the "not in the labor force" category.

2. They don't count "dead people" in unemployment statistics. I don't believe they count people who give up their citizenship and leave the country either. If you are employed overseas you still pay Expatriate income tax.

if you were working, or looking for work, and you

Die
Move out of the country
Go to jail/prison
Join the military
Go to live in a nursing g home, mental health facility or similar institution

Then you have left the labor force, and also the population, so those people would not be part of the 9.5 million increase in not in the labor force.

. What?

You enter the population by

Turning 16
immigrating
leaving the military, prison, or an institution.

So if someone enters the population and is not working our looking for work (mostly 16 year olds) then that person is not in the labor foirce but did not leave the labor force.

(Sigh) They ARE available labor, just not working. It could be because they started school, it could be because they became the stay-at-home parent, or it could be because they can't get hired due to age, sex, criminal or drug history, or their skill-set is no longer in demand.

If you're not trying to work, then you are not available. How can you be hired? Regardless of WHY someone isn't trying to work, that someone not trying to work isn't working tells us nothing about the job market.

There is no method of tracking who is "seeking" work. Employers don't register everyone who applies for work with the Federal government. However, as long as they are on unemployment benefits the presumption is that they are looking for work. In fact, States typically require claimant's maintain work search records available for inspection at any time.

none of that has anything to do with the unemployment rate or labor force statistics. None of the data for the National level come from the state governments or employment agencies.

What did you think my statement "numbers go up and down regularly" means?

that you did not know the numbers were seasonally adjusted and that you for unknown reasons think underemployment, part time work, and temp agency work have regular fluctuations (they don't)

Who says what? That there are a sizeable number of "employed" on food stamps?

No, who says "that's okay because they're employed," in reference to the working poor? I've never heard anyone say it's OK.

Yes, in the ongoing loss of jobs.

So in what way are you claiming that's a problem with the lkabor force numbers?

What a majority of Trump voters think about Obama's presidency!

independentusa

11Bravo

Ikari

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

katzgar

Velvet Elvis

tres borrachos

HoHoHo

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member

Mason66

Mason66

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member

Mason66

Grim17

Battle Ready

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member

pinqy

Velvet Elvis

independentusa

independentusa

independentusa

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage

Chomsky

Social Democrat

countryboy

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine

pinqy