• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is it time end the US Department of Education?

Casca XV

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
7,306
Reaction score
1,448
Location
State of Jefferson
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
The US Dept of Education was founded by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Prior to this centralized control, compared to the rest of the world the US had a great educational system. Today we have one of the worst.

It’s time to do something different.

We spent more per student than any other country on earth, around $12,000 a year. Right now that $12,000 automatically goes to the school district the child lives in, in some cases even if the child doesn’t actually attend the school.

Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district? Let the parents use that money to send their child to the Private School of their choice?

Forcing Public Schools to compete with Private Schools is the only way they will ever improve. If some of the failed Public Schools disappear as a result who cares, the priority is the kids education not the Government Bureaucracy or the Teachers Union.

It sounds like Trump maybe going in this direction. The one area where they need to be careful of is not to give control over the Private Schools to the same D.C. Bureaucrats that destroyed the Public Education System. This apparently has happened to some Charter Schools. Probably the only way to insure this is to permanently end the US Dept. of Education.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OIwNWq93n8
 
The US Dept of Education was founded by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Prior to this centralized control, compared to the rest of the world the US had a great educational system. Today we have one of the worst.

It’s time to do something different.

We spent more per student than any other country on earth, around $12,000 a year. Right now that $12,000 automatically goes to the school district the child lives in, in some cases even if the child doesn’t actually attend the school.

Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district? Let the parents use that money to send their child to the Private School of their choice?

Forcing Public Schools to compete with Private Schools is the only way they will ever improve. If some of the failed Public Schools disappear as a result who cares, the priority is the kids education not the Government Bureaucracy or the Teachers Union.

It sounds like Trump maybe going in this direction. The one area where they need to be careful of is not to give control over the Private Schools to the same D.C. Bureaucrats that destroyed the Public Education System. This apparently has happened to some Charter Schools. Probably the only way to insure this is to permanently end the US Dept. of Education.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OIwNWq93n8

Then main issue is there isn't a very good way to judge teachers and schools on how good of a job they do.

While there will be plenty of charter schools with good intentions there will be a significant amount that will be bilking the parents and taxpayers by either juking the stats or just outright fraud.
 
I can't see how the DoE would continue the way it is now. I would like to see it either replaced with something that is different and that may actually work, or delete it altogether and try something else.
 
The US Dept of Education was founded by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Prior to this centralized control, compared to the rest of the world the US had a great educational system. Today we have one of the worst.

It’s time to do something different.

We spent more per student than any other country on earth, around $12,000 a year. Right now that $12,000 automatically goes to the school district the child lives in, in some cases even if the child doesn’t actually attend the school.

Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district? Let the parents use that money to send their child to the Private School of their choice?

Forcing Public Schools to compete with Private Schools is the only way they will ever improve. If some of the failed Public Schools disappear as a result who cares, the priority is the kids education not the Government Bureaucracy or the Teachers Union.

It sounds like Trump maybe going in this direction. The one area where they need to be careful of is not to give control over the Private Schools to the same D.C. Bureaucrats that destroyed the Public Education System. This apparently has happened to some Charter Schools. Probably the only way to insure this is to permanently end the US Dept. of Education.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OIwNWq93n8

Of course you are right, but your suggestions have about a snowballs chance in hell of ever coming to pass. The fact is that the establishment realized a long time ago that the only way to subordinate the American people and to exploit the wealth of the continent was to control the educational system. Without the control over the minds of the people that the educational system provides, the people would soon discover the truth and revolution would result.
 
Then main issue is there isn't a very good way to judge teachers and schools on how good of a job they do.

While there will be plenty of charter schools with good intentions there will be a significant amount that will be bilking the parents and taxpayers by either juking the stats or just outright fraud.

Juking the stats is quite common today in public schools.

Annual testing of the kids by an independent moderator/firm will quickly tell haw each school is doing.
 
Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district?
This gives teachers' unions massively less leverage to extort governmental entities for ever expanding wage and benefit increases. This will not bode well with the fear-mongerers.
 
The US Dept of Education was founded by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Prior to this centralized control, compared to the rest of the world the US had a great educational system. Today we have one of the worst.
Uh, no we don't. We're ranked 14th by the OECD. BAV and Wharton puts the US in the top 5. Pierson puts it at #14.

What numbers are you citing?


We spent more per student than any other country on earth, around $12,000 a year.
Yes, that's probably because the US has one of the highest cost of living in the world.


Right now that $12,000 automatically goes to the school district the child lives in, in some cases even if the child doesn’t actually attend the school.
Uh.... no, pretty sure that's not right.

Most funding is local, not federal. The federal portion is only around 10%. Some of that funding even goes to adult education! Most of it is grants to local governments, and special programs.

expend.gif



Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district? Let the parents use that money to send their child to the Private School of their choice?
States can set up their own voucher programs if they want. 13 already do.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/voucher-law-comparison.aspx


Forcing Public Schools to compete with Private Schools is the only way they will ever improve.
bzzt wrong

1) Public and private schools already compete against each other, for attention of parents, for community support, for good students etc

2) One of the best ways to improve schools with problems is to force them to racially integrate. Since white parents lose their freaking minds over this one, good luck pushing that through.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/562/the-problem-we-all-live-with

3) There is this minor issue called the First Amendment. The federal government will have lots of issues trying to provide funding to religious schools, since that might be classified as an establishment of religion.

4) How happy will you be, when the federal government starts sending money to Muslim schools? I won't care, but I'm pretty sure that many of the people who support vouchers will lose their excrement over that one. And then, we're back at a First Amendment and/or civil rights issue when people expect the federal government to discriminate against madrassas.


If some of the failed Public Schools disappear as a result who cares
H'm, let's think about that for a minute....

Kids, because their education is disrupted. Parents, because the federal spending that goes directly to the students is a tiny fraction of private school tuition per year is only a tiny fraction of private school tuition. (Local/state spending per student is also far less than the full tuition cost of most private schools.) Communities, because good public schools mean higher property values. Local politicians, who may not be thrilled that the federal government is undermining their schools.


It sounds like Trump maybe going in this direction.
OK, again? The federal government has very little control over education.

More to the point, he's apparently planning to take a chainsaw to the federal DoE. If the DoE doesn't have a budget, then the federal government doesn't have much leverage over local school districts, now does it?


The one area where they need to be careful of is not to give control over the Private Schools to the same D.C. Bureaucrats that destroyed the Public Education System.
How did they do that? By ceding almost all control of education to local and state districts?


This apparently has happened to some Charter Schools.
What the F are you talking about?

Charter schools are basically small non-union public schools. The federal government basically has no control over them. And news flash! they don't perform better than any other type of school.


Probably the only way to insure this is to permanently end the US Dept. of Education.
Oh, really?

Why don't you tell us what the Department of Education does in the first place? Then tell us how it's so awful that it must be ended.

Why do I not trust the person who doesn't even know that most education funding is local, to decide the fate of a major federal agency?
 
Yes. Thank you.
 
No. It serves as a necessary check and balance to state departments of education and the local school districts. It just needs to continue evolving.
 
Last edited:
The US Dept of Education was founded by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Prior to this centralized control, compared to the rest of the world the US had a great educational system. Today we have one of the worst.

It’s time to do something different.

We spent more per student than any other country on earth, around $12,000 a year. Right now that $12,000 automatically goes to the school district the child lives in, in some cases even if the child doesn’t actually attend the school.

Why not attach the $12,000 to the kid instead of the school district? Let the parents use that money to send their child to the Private School of their choice?

Forcing Public Schools to compete with Private Schools is the only way they will ever improve. If some of the failed Public Schools disappear as a result who cares, the priority is the kids education not the Government Bureaucracy or the Teachers Union.

It sounds like Trump maybe going in this direction. The one area where they need to be careful of is not to give control over the Private Schools to the same D.C. Bureaucrats that destroyed the Public Education System. This apparently has happened to some Charter Schools. Probably the only way to insure this is to permanently end the US Dept. of Education.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OIwNWq93n8
My question is why do we need the DOE at all? What does it do

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
I can't see how the DoE would continue the way it is now. I would like to see it either replaced with something that is different and that may actually work, or delete it altogether and try something else.

I'm for delete.

And I've always been in favor of school vouchers.
 
Juking the stats is quite common today in public schools.

Annual testing of the kids by an independent moderator/firm will quickly tell haw each school is doing.

The schools can still teach to the test, it still has the issue of measuring kids who are smart but don't test well and of course the major flaw that a school full of rich students is going to far out preform one with poor students.
 
This gives teachers' unions massively less leverage to extort governmental entities for ever expanding wage and benefit increases. This will not bode well with the fear-mongerers.

Mongerers.
There's so many directions to take this, I can't choose.
 
The schools can still teach to the test, it still has the issue of measuring kids who are smart but don't test well and of course the major flaw that a school full of rich students is going to far out preform one with poor students.

As long as the tests actually reflect what the kids need to learn, than there is no conflict. The rich getting more opportunities happens now, Giving the poor access to private schools is the only equalizer.
 
My question is why do we need the DOE at all? What does it do

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

It meddles in the state and local educational systems and it makes and eventually forgives loans to students. The first isn't helpful, the second should handled by the private sector. because we have a dept. of eduction doesn't mean it does anything to advance American society. The same can be said most of the other cabinet departments as well.
 
Back
Top Bottom