• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Goes Leftist to Save Carrier Jobs

Napoleon said:
I have public knowledge. I know that Carrier claimed that the move to Mexico would save the company $65 million per year. I also know that, as a publicly traded company, United Technologies Corporation answers to shareholders and that flushing a $65 million annual cost savings requires a better reason than Donald Trump's say so.
Click to expand...

In other words, you are making **** up.
 
countryboy said:
In other words, you are making **** up.
Click to expand...

No, I'm pointing out the fact that no company with shareholders to answer to abandons such a savings unless they are offered a comparable carrot. Particularly after reaching settlement agreements and paying out reimbursements for previous incentives in preparation for moving. Whatever Donald Trump committed to is guaranteed to either cost the taxpayers or reduce revenue with massive tax incentives. And it's going to be at the Federal level considering that neither city or State officials are aware of what the deal is..unless Pence is making back room deals.
 
Last edited:
Beaudreaux said:
You'd be damned surprised at how many of those items I agree with you on. I just have certain criteria, lines in the sand if your will, that those projects cannot cross, like competing with private entities and putting them out of business, which is usually very counterproductive for the government to do in regard to tax revenue generation and job production.
Click to expand...
My line in the sand is government owning the businesses. As for competition, I can see how it would hurt a competitor of Carrier, like Copeland, if suddenly the US began financing Carrier's R&D. But that's not what's happening. So, I'm fine with it.
 
Napoleon said:
No, I'm pointing out the fact that no company with shareholders to answer to abandons such a savings unless they are offered a comparable carrot. Particularly after reaching settlement agreements and paying out reimbursements for previous incentives in preparation for moving. Whatever Donald Trump committed to is guaranteed to either cost the taxpayers or reduce revenue with massive tax incentives. And it's going to be at the Federal level considering that neither city or State officials are aware of what the deal is..unless Pence is making back room deals.
Click to expand...

The shareholders own UTC stock, since Carrier is a subsidiary of theirs. And that carrot is probably related to defense projects UTC is vying for, if I had to guess.
 
Kobie said:
Another wonderful "contribution."
Click to expand...

My guess is that if Obama had tried to muscle companies like GM, Ford or even Carrier to stay in the US, the Right would lose its ****, and today's headline in Drudge would not be so flowery. Instead of seeing "Trump makes America Great Again" on his masthead, we'd see this: "Obama goes Castro, Threatens Carrier"
 
calamity said:
My guess is that if Obama had tried to muscle companies like GM, Ford or even Carrier to stay in the US, the Right would lose its ****, and today's headline in Drudge would not be so flowery. Instead of seeing "Trump makes America Great Again" on his masthead, we'd see this: "Obama goes Castro, Threatens Carrier"
Click to expand...

Maybe you just weren't paying attention, but Trump was threatening companies throughout the campaign.
 
countryboy said:
Except that he hasn't done that. This thread amounts to nothing more than another fake news story. You people will never learn.
Click to expand...

You're one of those who doesn't see it. I know. It's not a surprise.

So far thrice-married, serial womanizer Trump has succeeded in having the Christian Right walk back some of its demands on RW leaders, destroyed libertarian principles by meddling in private business decisions, and thumbed his nose at conservative ideology by proposing FDR-like massive government expansion and intervention in all aspects of society, from infrastructure to law enforcement. No way can be appoint strict constitutionalist Supreme Court justices if he continues down that path.

This should be fun. Oh, and it's Great!
 
Fletch said:
Maybe you just weren't paying attention, but Trump was threatening companies throughout the campaign.
Click to expand...

We know. That's why most of us who opposed him said he was not a Conservative, but rather a bit of a Leftist.
 
calamity said:
Employ a 1000 people in a Red sate, and threaten to move the jobs to Mexico. Then open your hand, coins are bound to appear.
Click to expand...
Would you say there has been a trend in the US with businesses leaving certain states with high tax rates for other states that have created favorable economic incentives for businesses?
 
So for those keeping score a home, thats 2 companies that have been inspired to keep jobs in the US abd in both incidents, leftists are ****ting themselves because Trump has worked out a deal with the companies to keep the jobs in the US. Rather than having 1000 people on unemployment for an indefinite period of time costing the state up to 50 million a year plus, the state will instead keep 1000 workers at approx 50k per job, ADDING $50 million a year to the state economy and in turn that may cost the state of Indiana some tax revenue it might have gained from the corporation.

Oh thats HORRIBLE.
 
calamity said:
I'm not slamming him. But, I do enjoy watching him destroy both conservatism and libertarianism in one full swoop. I love watching you all sell out your ideological principles for the new Messiah. This **** is great.
Click to expand...

I really don't get what your problem is. The idea all along was to cut taxes and regulations in order to keep companies from moving off shore, and that's what Trump negotiated here.
 
Napoleon said:
No, I'm pointing out the fact that no company with shareholders to answer to abandons such a savings unless they are offered a comparable carrot. Particularly after reaching settlement agreements and paying out reimbursements for previous incentives in preparation for moving. Whatever Donald Trump committed to is guaranteed to either cost the taxpayers or reduce revenue with massive tax incentives. And it's going to be at the Federal level considering that neither city or State officials are aware of what the deal is..unless Pence is making back room deals.
Click to expand...

Cut back the size and expenses of the bloated, interfering Federal government and let companies that actually DO something for Americans thrive....
OH the horror!
 
LowDown said:
I really don't get what your problem is. The idea all along was to cut taxes and regulations in order to keep companies from moving off shore, and that's what Trump negotiated here.
Click to expand...

Ah, so now you're OK with executive action---even when the executive is not even yet in office. I love it. The hypocrisy on the Right knows no bounds, it seems.

It's all good, The next four years will tear the ideology of the Right to shreds.
 
VanceMack said:
So for those keeping score a home, thats 2 companies that have been inspired to keep jobs in the US abd in both incidents, leftists are ****ting themselves because Trump has worked out a deal with the companies to keep the jobs in the US. Rather than having 1000 people on unemployment for an indefinite period of time costing the state up to 50 million a year plus, the state will instead keep 1000 workers at approx 50k per job, ADDING $50 million a year to the state economy and in turn that may cost the state of Indiana some tax revenue it might have gained from the corporation.

Oh thats HORRIBLE.
Click to expand...

No. It's actually good. I'm just amazed that the Righties are going along with it.
 
calamity said:
Ah, so now you're OK with executive action---even when the executive is not even yet in office. I love it. The hypocrisy on the Right knows no bounds, it seems.

It's all good, The next four years will tear the ideology of the Right to shreds.
Click to expand...

Wishful thinking if there ever was any. Conservatism can't be destroyed. It's the common sense that arises with experience.
 
LowDown said:
Wishful thinking if there ever was any. Conservatism can't be destroyed. It's the common sense that arises with experience.
Click to expand...

Watch, and weep in four years.
 
calamity said:
No. It's actually good. I'm just amazed that the Righties are going along with it.
Click to expand...

I love your spin on this one calamity.

It must be difficult to pigeonhole a person elected to President by voters who wanted a non-status quo candidate.

It's going to be fun watching lefties trying to figure out how to complain about a President who appears to be doing exactly what people who are tired of establishment status quo actions elected him to do.
 
ocean515 said:
I love your spin on this one calamity.

It must be difficult to pigeonhole a person elected to President by voters who wanted a non-status quo candidate.

It's going to be fun watching lefties trying to figure out how to complain about a President who appears to be doing exactly what people who are tired of establishment status quo actions elected him to do.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree that he is doing what some people, including me, are hoping he would do. But, I know for a fact that this will rip apart the hopes and dreams of the conservative Right. And, that is awesome!!!
 
calamity said:
Excellent. Libertarians are going to whine...if they are ideologically astute enough to realize they should. That is.

Carrier says it has struck a deal with Trump to keep jobs in Indiana - Nov. 29, 2016


Well, at least one is.


Another smart guy seems to get it.



Well, from a selfish POV, **** the libertarians and econ geniuses, buying jobs is certainly one way to make America Great again.

Trump, the new FDR.
Click to expand...

Yet when the same things are done in the name of "green" jobs then it is "the right thing to do" and a wise use (investment?) of public funds.

When a blue state does this is it then "wise public policy"?

https://startup.ny.gov/

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/go...e-2-billion-tax-relief-new-yorks-families-and
 
calamity said:
You're one of those who doesn't see it. I know. It's not a surprise.

So far thrice-married, serial womanizer Trump has succeeded in having the Christian Right walk back some of its demands on RW leaders, destroyed libertarian principles by meddling in private business decisions, and thumbed his nose at conservative ideology by proposing FDR-like massive government expansion and intervention in all aspects of society, from infrastructure to law enforcement. No way can be appoint strict constitutionalist Supreme Court justices if he continues down that path.

This should be fun. Oh, and it's Great!
Click to expand...

Delusional, wishful thinking nonsense.
 
countryboy said:
Delusional, wishful thinking nonsense.
Click to expand...

So far my wishes are being granted. We now have a GOP president who thinks religion is phooey; he believes government should intervene when companies want to ship jobs overseas, even if that move is profitable for them; he is proposing massive infrastructure revitalization and investment, even if we have to increase debt by maybe selling Trump Bonds to get there; he's tweeting about stripping people of their citizenship for burning flags, and, for all I know, he's probably planning on finally enforcing immigration law--especially on companies who hire illegals--even if he has to violate a few constitutional safeguards to get there.

Hell, he's batting a 1000 on those fronts. Too bad none of those things adhere to conservative principles. But, so what? Not my problem. I'm not a huge fan of those principles anyway.

Make America Great Again!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yet when the same things are done in the name of "green" jobs then it is "the right thing to do" and a wise use (investment?) of public funds.

When a blue state does this is it then "wise public policy"?

https://startup.ny.gov/

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/go...e-2-billion-tax-relief-new-yorks-families-and
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of this government investing strategy, even if the choices sometimes fail. It's a beautiful thing. Take a look at Germany, Japan and China. None of those countries would be world leaders without government investment in infrastructure, R&D, and a slew of other things that make building a billion-dollar assembly plant worthwhile. You want to make iPhones in the US, you better make it easy on Apple.
 
calamity said:
I do not disagree that he is doing what some people, including me, are hoping he would do. But, I know for a fact that this will rip apart the hopes and dreams of the conservative Right. And, that is awesome!!!
Click to expand...

Anything that rips apart establishment status quo agendas is a good thing, be it on the left, or within the diminishing group of people who cling to the status quo on the right.

Besides, I have no clue who the left is trying to define as "conservative" anymore. Who those people are supposed to be is a mystery to me.
 
ocean515 said:
Anything that rips apart establishment status quo agendas is a good thing, be it on the left, or within the diminishing group of people who cling to the status quo on the right.

Besides, I have no clue who the left is trying to define as "conservative" anymore. Who those people are supposed to be is a mystery to me.
Click to expand...

Conservative principles are pretty straight forward.

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/ten-conservative-principles
Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence. Burke agrees with Plato that in the statesman, prudence is chief among virtues. Any public measure ought to be judged by its probable long.run consequences, not merely by temporary advantage or popularity. Liberals and radicals, the conservative says, are imprudent: for they dash at their objectives without giving much heed to the risk of new abuses worse than the evils they hope to sweep away. As John Rando l ph of Roanoke put it, Providence moves slowly, but the devil always hurries. Human society being complex, remedies cannot be simple if they are to be efficacious. The conservative declares that he acts only after sufficient reflection, having weighed the consequences. Sudden and slashing reforms are as perilous as sudden and slashing surgery.


Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human Passions. Politically speaking, power is the ability to do as one likes, regardless of the wills of one's fel lows. A state in which an individual or a small group are able to dominate the wills of their fellows without check is a despotism, whether it is called monarchical or aristocratic or democratic. When every person claims to be a power unto himself, then society falls into anarchy...
Click to expand...

Trump is most certainly not one.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom