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Michigan within Range of Automatic Recount

Maybe, lets get this recount over with already.. Bring it on..

I want to also see some investigation into noncitizens voting while were at it to be fair.. But that probably won't happen..
 
10k is a big gap to fill unless hacking / fraud can be proved. i don't see it happening. punkinhead is president for at least the next four years, and that's the way it stands.
 
A recount isn't going to shift the margin by 10,000 votes. And the ones pending in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania certainly aren't going to shift theirs by 20,000 and 70,000.
 
Anagram said:
A recount isn't going to shift the margin by 10,000 votes. And the ones pending in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania certainly aren't going to shift theirs by 20,000 and 70,000.
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Yeah I mean in 2000 Gore got a recount that heavily favored him in a bigger state than those and only gained 1200 votes
 
Anagram said:
A recount isn't going to shift the margin by 10,000 votes. And the ones pending in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania certainly aren't going to shift theirs by 20,000 and 70,000.
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I agree, but I also agree that it is a shot worth taking. Maybe they find enough discrepancies to force a full audit. Long shot, but a fight is something HRC owes those 64 million people who voted for her.
 
Helix said:
10k is a big gap to fill unless hacking / fraud can be proved. i don't see it happening. punkinhead is president for at least the next four years, and that's the way it stands.
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An 0,3 percent difference is mighty small.
 
Helix said:
10k is a big gap to fill unless hacking / fraud can be proved. i don't see it happening. punkinhead is president for at least the next four years, and that's the way it stands.
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I'm sure that is correct. But, like I said, it's a fight that really does need to proceed. 64 million voters need to be appeased and shown that everything possible has been done here.

And, ya just never know....maybe something fishy went on after all. THe bitch won the pop vote by 4%. It's unheard of to win the pop by such a large margin and lose the election.
 
joG said:
An 0,3 percent difference is mighty small.
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without proof of hacking or fraud, i don't see them finding 10k votes. i mean, that's a LOT of votes. this isn't like trying to find five hundred and whatever votes in Broward county.
 
calamity said:
I'm sure that is correct. But, like I said, it's a fight that really does need to proceed. 64 million voters need to be appeased and shown that everything possible has been done here.

And, ya just never know....maybe something fishy went on after all. THe bitch won the pop vote by 4%. It's unheard of to win the pop by such a large margin and lose the election.
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well, it's also unheard of that a nation pissed off about job loss elects the "you're fired" billionaire real estate shyster who makes his products in the same countries that he rails against, but everyone loves a circus. the only way i see this flipping is if someone proves that it was hacked. that's too CT for me, so my guess is that the result will remain the same.
 
calamity said:
I agree, but I also agree that it is a shot worth taking. Maybe they find enough discrepancies to force a full audit. Long shot, but a fight is something HRC owes those 64 million people who voted for her.
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I would also be a little worried, if the election was turned around. But Trump has already done so much damage or promised such harmful polities that some relief would sneak in too.
 
Helix said:
well, it's also unheard of that a nation pissed off about job loss elects the "you're fired" billionaire real estate shyster who makes his products in the same countries that he rails against, but everyone loves a circus. the only way i see this flipping is if someone proves that it was hacked. that's too CT for me, so my guess is that the result will remain the same.
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These days nothing surprises me. Cubs won the World Series after all.
 
joG said:
I would also be a little worried, if the election was turned around. But Trump has already done so much damage or promised such harmful polities that some relief would sneak in too.
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How ugly is it when the majority is denied a place at the table due to intrinsic mechanisms like the EC and gerrymandered districts? Democrats won a majority of house votes too. I suspect they won that pop vote by even more than 4%, but I have not looked it up yet.
 
Helix said:
without proof of hacking or fraud, i don't see them finding 10k votes. i mean, that's a LOT of votes. this isn't like trying to find five hundred and whatever votes in Broward county.
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You are correct there. It would almost have to be systemic manipulation or the votes would have been correctly counted to be miscounted in the recount.
 
calamity said:
How ugly is it when the majority is denied a place at the table due to intrinsic mechanisms like the EC and gerrymandered districts? Democrats won a majority of house votes too. I suspect they won that pop vote by even more than 4%, but I have not looked it up yet.
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I guess I was wrong on the house vote. R's had more votes, but the D's picked up more seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2016

Last time the D won the popular was in 2012. Where they had 1/2 million more votes but the R won 50 more seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012
 
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calamity said:
I agree, but I also agree that it is a shot worth taking. Maybe they find enough discrepancies to force a full audit. Long shot, but a fight is something HRC owes those 64 million people who voted for her.
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Hmm...and what does she owe the 161,136,000 people who didn't vote for her either because they voted for someone else (70,114,000) or didn't vote at all (91,022,000)?


Captain Adverse said:
Not quite.

According to this site Clinton got 64,641,150 (47.97%) of the votes cast, Trump got 62,438,889 (46.34%), and third party candidates garnered a total of 7,674,900 (5.69%). 2016 Presidential General Election Results

Total votes cast: 134,754,939, or about 57% eligible voters. Clinton has a plurality of 47.97% of those votes cast, but lost 52.03% of all votes cast; and let's not forget 42 - 43% of eligible voters opted not to vote at all.

So the correct statement would be that she got a plurality among those eligible to vote who actually voted.
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A "long shot" indeed...to do what? Make herself feel better by maybe picking up a few more ECV? :coffeepap:

P.S.:

calamity said:
I guess I was wrong on the house vote. R's had more votes, but the D's picked up more seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2016

Last time the D won the popular was in 2012. Where they had 1/2 million more votes but the R won 50 more seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012
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I appreciate your self-correction. Good show. :applaud

I don't know if it is fair or not, and don't wish to go into it at this point.

However, you do realize the Democrats are not above gerrymandering either right? That it is not a Republican-only tactic? Just saying. :shrug:
 
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calamity said:
a fight is something HRC owes those 64 million people who voted for her.
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So baically you want your party to fight it out to the death in a battle you know you cannot win, instead of retreating and regrouping to fight another day..

What you are doing will spell certain death for your party and leftists in general, America sees your protest riots, your blatant lies, your decieving and corruption, propaganda, and these recounts..

These recounts are giving all liberals a very very bad image to those with common sense, just as all your Trump protests got Trump the R nomination, your Trump protests got you the R presidency, now your Trump protests are just further pushing America toward Trump because we all are STILL waking up to the propaganda and seeing through the lies..

These recounts, just another knife stabbed into leftists as a whole, America sees the truth, if not now, the truth about such matters comes out soon..

Do it, fight it out to the death, march your people right into the minefield, DO IT!!

People all over the world are realizing that you cannot believe anything coming from the left, please help me hasten this process by carrying on like whining lieing children so all can see the truth for what it is!!

You have only just begun to wake up the silent majority.. The more you push your dishonest leftist rhetoric and agenda, the faster that alarm clock ticks.. Air your dirty laundry for all to see..
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...and what does she owe the 161,136,000 people who didn't vote for her either because they voted for someone else (70,114,000) or didn't vote at all (91,022,000)?
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She owes them the truth, and the more these leftists keep up their tantrumfest, the more truth these people see, and it doesn't exactly help their side..

Their is a massive awakening happening..
 
calamity said:
How ugly is it when the majority is denied a place at the table due to intrinsic mechanisms like the EC and gerrymandered districts? Democrats won a majority of house votes too. I suspect they won that pop vote by even more than 4%, but I have not looked it up yet.
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When I became interested in social and political systems of decision making and the consequences of different mechanism design, I found that popular majority was in no way a panacea nor even a desirable attribute for many elections in complex societies. Similarly parliamentary systems are almost alway inferior to presidential systems. This is true as a general rule and one must remember that it is not an all or nothing thing. By adjusting the parameters one can gradually modify a parliamentary system in such a way that most of its societal and economic results become identical to those of a presidential on.
 
Orly? said:
So baically you want your party to fight it out to the death in a battle you know you cannot win, instead of retreating and regrouping to fight another day..

What you are doing will spell certain death for your party and leftists in general, America sees your protest riots, your blatant lies, your decieving and corruption, propaganda, and these recounts..

These recounts are giving all liberals a very very bad image to those with common sense, just as all your Trump protests got Trump the R nomination, your Trump protests got you the R presidency, now your Trump protests are just further pushing America toward Trump because we all are STILL waking up to the propaganda and seeing through the lies..

These recounts, just another knife stabbed into leftists as a whole, America sees the truth, if not now, the truth about such matters comes out soon..

Do it, fight it out to the death, march your people right into the minefield, DO IT!!

People all over the world are realizing that you cannot believe anything coming from the left, please help me hasten this process by carrying on like whining lieing children so all can see the truth for what it is!!

You have only just begun to wake up the silent majority.. The more you push your dishonest leftist rhetoric and agenda, the faster that alarm clock ticks.. Air your dirty laundry for all to see..
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Not my party. Far from it. But, if I lost an election where I won the popular vote by a whopping 4% margin but lost a few key states by less than 100,000 votes combined, I would indeed fight to the death. I'd be in court until June.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...and what does she owe the 161,136,000 people who didn't vote for her either because they voted for someone else (70,114,000) or didn't vote at all (91,022,000)?...
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I see you keep bringing up the people who didn't vote.

Sorry, but if you don't vote, you forfeit your right to be counted as it regards this discussion.
 
joG said:
You are correct there. It would almost have to be systemic manipulation or the votes would have been correctly counted to be miscounted in the recount.
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a hack could do it. push a margin of victory just thin enough to not look suspicious. however, i really don't think that's what happened, and if it did, there's no way that it slipped under the NSA's radar. they would have come forward with reports of irregularities by now, IMO.

either way, like i said, i don't do CT. i guess whatever it takes to get shocked sane people in denial to accept idiot boy as king for the next four years is worth it. we all need to get back to work now.
 
Paperview said:
I see you keep bringing up the people who didn't vote.

Sorry, but if you don't vote, you forfeit your right to be counted as it regards this discussion.
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Actually NO, for two good reasons. :no:

1. As many (including myself) point out, exercising the option not to vote is a vote for "none of the above." I've done that myself in a couple of elections over my life-time.

3. Those people still count among the total "Popular" vote. It means the winners of any Presidential election are only receiving a "Plurality" of those votes cast, NOT a "Majority of the Popular Vote" as they frequently mis-claim.

So, yeah it is always important to note this little oft-neglected fact if for no other reason than to point out no winner ever actually has a mandate.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Actually NO, for two good reasons. :no:

1. As many (including myself) point out, exercising the option not to vote is a vote for "none of the above." I've done that myself in a couple of elections over my life-time.

3. Those people still count among the total "Popular" vote. It means the winners of any Presidential election are only receiving a "Plurality" of those vote cast, NOT a "Majority of the Popular Vote" as they keep claiming.

So, yeah it is always important to note this little oft-neglected fact if for no other reason than to point out no winner ever actually has a mandate.
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No. A person can still vote for "none of the above." A person who doesn't cast a ballot as a matter of principle, or laziness, or whatever is the same when it comes to ballots cast - of which theirs is a big fat zero.

You don't get to include ballots not cast in the popular vote count. Doesn't work that way.
 
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