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Clinton’s loss is one more nail in the coffin of center-left politics in the West

Kobie said:
I also remember being told after the GOP defeated Kerry in 2004 (or perhaps it was the 2002 midterms) that the Dems were toast FOREVER and Rove was bragging about ushering in a "permanent Republican majority" for a century.

Voters are fickle creatures.
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Exactly.
 
NonoBadDog said:
Wait. Let me guess, you want instant gratification and everything to happen immediately.
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Not even close. What I want is not lying about policy intent during the campaign.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are you kidding me? WTF was the POTUS campaign about if not Trump's vs. Hillary's proposals?
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I guess you missed it. It was about Trump v Clinton's warts. There was very little policy discussion in the entire campagn.
 
upsideguy said:
I guess you missed it. It was about Trump v Clinton's warts. There was very little policy discussion in the entire campagn.
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That is what much of he media wanted it to be about but there were (and still are) plenty of D/R policy differences.
 
Bob N said:
This is OK. I have seen several threads about this (Liberals are dead.) Wait and see how Trump will not get cooperation from the GOP Congress for a lot of that craziness he sold the Trump voters out there. It will remind me of Obama's first 2 years in office--but probably worse for Trump.
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Obama in his first two years got everything he wanted from congress. The problem was the bulk of the American people didn't like what he was getting from congress and 2010 happened. A 63 house seat loss for the Democrats. As for Trump and the GOP congress, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is what much of he media wanted it to be about but there were (and still are) plenty of D/R policy differences.
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On what basis do you come up with that? I don't recall the media saying "lock her up" Nor do I recall the media saying "basketful of deplorables", nor did the media make two major announcements about investigations that pretty much amounted to "the wings are not on fire"....

Sorry, you give the media far too much credit. The candidates set the pace, albeit, some of that "pace" is how they respond to the events of the day.

Trump never made this about issues, because he had no command of the issues.... just check his website; only 7 issues even listed and nothing but a few bullet points that were shallow, at best. Clinton tried to make the campaign about Trump's fitness for the job.

Unless you can show evidence that the so-called media dictates the election debate, I suggest you think otherwise.
 
Perotista said:
Obama in his first two years got everything he wanted from congress. The problem was the bulk of the American people didn't like what he was getting from congress and 2010 happened. A 63 house seat loss for the Democrats. As for Trump and the GOP congress, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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No he didn't.

Take note: When Obama had total control of Congress

Lat paragraph:
Did President Obama have "total control' of Congress during his first two years as president? Absolutely not and any assertions to the contrary.....as you can plainly see in the above chronology....is a lie.
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Eventually he had to deal with a watered down version of the original plan.
 
Bob N said:
No he didn't.

Take note: When Obama had total control of Congress

Lat paragraph:

Eventually he had to deal with a watered down version of the original plan.
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Basically from July of 2009 to January 2010 the Democrats had 60 senators including the two independents which caucused with the Democrats and were/are Democrats in all but the name they call themselves.

But that doesn't do away with the reason the Dems lost the house in the 2010 elections, the passage of the ACA which the majority of Americans were against and still are. The ACA has been an albatross around the Democrats neck ever since. Here are the polls when it was first passed.

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the Senate passed it in November of 2009 National 38.2% for, 52.6% against:
CNN/Opinion Research 12/2-12/3 36% for 61% Against/Oppose +25
Rasmussen Reports 11/29 - 11/29 41% for 53% Against/Oppose +12
Gallup 11/20-11/22 44% for 49% Against/Oppose +5
Ipsos/McClatchy 11/19 - 11/22 34% for 46% Against/Oppose +12
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 38% for 56% Against/Oppose +18
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 35% for 51% Against/Oppose +16
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the House passed it in March of 2010 National average 38.0% for, 53.1% against
Bloomberg 3/19 - 3/22 38% for 50% Against/Oppose +12
CNN/Opinion Research 3/19 - 3/21 39% for 59% Against/Oppose +20
CBS News 3/18 - 3/21 37% for 48% Against/Oppose +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/19 - 3/20 41% for 54% Against/Oppose +13
Quinnipiac 3/16 - 3/21 36% for 54% Against/Oppose +18
Democracy Corps (D) 3/15 - 3/18 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12
FOX News 3/16 - 3/17 35% 55% Against/Oppose +20


Now one has to wonder how much the published increase of the ACA having double digit premium rises and the increase in the deductible, how many votes that cost Hillary Clinton. According to Gallup 44% of Americans are for it, 52% against it. Clinton won the pro ACA vote 78-18 but lost the anti ACA vote 13-82. The exit polls put the numbers as 30% for, 18% didn't matter and 47% against. Also according to Gallup, the ACA has helped 16% of all Americans, hurt 27% while 54% had no effect.

In 2012 the ACA had little to no effect on that election which the Democrats won, mainly because Romney with his Romney care couldn't bring it up as a campaign issue. But the publication of the double digit rate increases, the increase in deductible in my opinion was one of the main reason Clinton lost. There are plenty more, but this is just one.
 
Perotista said:
Basically from July of 2009 to January 2010 the Democrats had 60 senators including the two independents which caucused with the Democrats and were/are Democrats in all but the name they call themselves.

But that doesn't do away with the reason the Dems lost the house in the 2010 elections, the passage of the ACA which the majority of Americans were against and still are. The ACA has been an albatross around the Democrats neck ever since. Here are the polls when it was first passed.

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the Senate passed it in November of 2009 National 38.2% for, 52.6% against:
CNN/Opinion Research 12/2-12/3 36% for 61% Against/Oppose +25
Rasmussen Reports 11/29 - 11/29 41% for 53% Against/Oppose +12
Gallup 11/20-11/22 44% for 49% Against/Oppose +5
Ipsos/McClatchy 11/19 - 11/22 34% for 46% Against/Oppose +12
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 38% for 56% Against/Oppose +18
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 35% for 51% Against/Oppose +16
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the House passed it in March of 2010 National average 38.0% for, 53.1% against
Bloomberg 3/19 - 3/22 38% for 50% Against/Oppose +12
CNN/Opinion Research 3/19 - 3/21 39% for 59% Against/Oppose +20
CBS News 3/18 - 3/21 37% for 48% Against/Oppose +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/19 - 3/20 41% for 54% Against/Oppose +13
Quinnipiac 3/16 - 3/21 36% for 54% Against/Oppose +18
Democracy Corps (D) 3/15 - 3/18 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12
FOX News 3/16 - 3/17 35% 55% Against/Oppose +20


Now one has to wonder how much the published increase of the ACA having double digit premium rises and the increase in the deductible, how many votes that cost Hillary Clinton. According to Gallup 44% of Americans are for it, 52% against it. Clinton won the pro ACA vote 78-18 but lost the anti ACA vote 13-82. The exit polls put the numbers as 30% for, 18% didn't matter and 47% against. Also according to Gallup, the ACA has helped 16% of all Americans, hurt 27% while 54% had no effect.

In 2012 the ACA had little to no effect on that election which the Democrats won, mainly because Romney with his Romney care couldn't bring it up as a campaign issue. But the publication of the double digit rate increases, the increase in deductible in my opinion was one of the main reason Clinton lost. There are plenty more, but this is just one.
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I stand with post #83. Have a nice day.
 
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