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To What Extent is a Dress Code Sexist?

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Sopapia

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Recently there was a scandal about General Mike Flynn's dress code involving makeup and skirts. Understandably I would be appalled if I had to wear makeup to work as a requirement, but then I also understand where they're coming from. Makeup generally is an improvement on the appearance, and appearance is important in our society because people will judge your competence by it. You want your employees to look professional in their work, and makeup is usually an important part.

At what point would you draw the line though? You definitely don't want to have your workers showing up in clown costumes, but there are professional appearances to be kept. Altogether I'm undecided.
 
Sopapia said:
Recently there was a scandal about General Mike Flynn's dress code involving makeup and skirts. Understandably I would be appalled if I had to wear makeup to work as a requirement, but then I also understand where they're coming from. Makeup generally is an improvement on the appearance, and appearance is important in our society because people will judge your competence by it. You want your employees to look professional in their work, and makeup is usually an important part.

At what point would you draw the line though? You definitely don't want to have your workers showing up in clown costumes, but there are professional appearances to be kept. Altogether I'm undecided.
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Since you threw a general into the mix in mandating a dress code let me answer, military is military, it has strict dress codes on post and in uniform. Even with the military allowing gays they still ban you from walking around in a pink tutu, they ban women from wearing provacative clothes, and ban men from not wearing a shirt cuz you know gotta show off that manly chest to impress the ladies.

This has to do with military appearance, off post and on their time the military has no juristiction, but on post in or out of uniform they are the image of the military, therefore they must abide by the code, so if a gay soldier wants to wear a pink tutu while escorting his boyfriend wearing a gimp suit around he needs to do it off post on his time.
 
beerftw said:
Since you threw a general into the mix in mandating a dress code let me answer, military is military, it has strict dress codes on post and in uniform. Even with the military allowing gays they still ban you from walking around in a pink tutu, they ban women from wearing provacative clothes, and ban men from not wearing a shirt cuz you know gotta show off that manly chest to impress the ladies.

This has to do with military appearance, off post and on their time the military has no juristiction, but on post in or out of uniform they are the image of the military, therefore they must abide by the code, so if a gay soldier wants to wear a pink tutu while escorting his boyfriend wearing a gimp suit around he needs to do it off post on his time.
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It wasn't a military dress code it was one for the DIA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ress-memo-went-around-lt-gen-mike-flynns-dia/
 
I have never worn makeup to work, and do not intend to do so. Since I also do not wear it in any normal occasion including at a job interview, then employers should figure this is going to be the standard for me.

It is wrong to suggest that women should wear makeup to look professional (unless their profession is primarily about their looks and many men in that profession also wear makeup or at least accentuate their features). Most professions should be based more on the performance in the job, not how you look.


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roguenuke said:
I have never worn makeup to work, and do not intend to do so. Since I also do not wear it in any normal occasion including at a job interview, then employers should figure this is going to be the standard for me.

It is wrong to suggest that women should wear makeup to look professional (unless their profession is primarily about their looks and many men in that profession also wear makeup or at least accentuate their features). Most professions should be based more on the performance in the job, not how you look.


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I don't know. Appearance depicts who we are personally. In a job setting the company wants to depict an air of professionalism. Can't exactly do that when their employee's are coming to work in their PJ's can they? Whenever I have gone looking for a place to rent one of the main things I do is dress nice and make sure my car is cleaned before heading out. Reason being is that the owner will take those into consideration on if they will rent to you or not. And who can blame them? No one wants to rent to a slob as slobs generally do not take care of the property that they are renting.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't know. Appearance depicts who we are personally. In a job setting the company wants to depict an air of professionalism. Can't exactly do that when their employee's are coming to work in their PJ's can they? Whenever I have gone looking for a place to rent one of the main things I do is dress nice and make sure my car is cleaned before heading out. Reason being is that the owner will take those into consideration on if they will rent to you or not. And who can blame them? No one wants to rent to a slob as slobs generally do not take care of the property that they are renting.
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There's a difference between asking that people dress a certain way and making them wear makeup, but only those of a particular gender and the other shouldn't wear it.


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Sopapia said:
Recently there was a scandal about General Mike Flynn's dress code involving makeup and skirts. Understandably I would be appalled if I had to wear makeup to work as a requirement, but then I also understand where they're coming from. Makeup generally is an improvement on the appearance, and appearance is important in our society because people will judge your competence by it. You want your employees to look professional in their work, and makeup is usually an important part.

At what point would you draw the line though? You definitely don't want to have your workers showing up in clown costumes, but there are professional appearances to be kept. Altogether I'm undecided.
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Then why doesn't Flynn feel men should also be mandated to "improve" their appearance with make-up? Why are women seen as slovenly if they don't alter their face in such a way as to be more appetizing to men? That has nothing at all to do with how "professional" a woman is. It has to do with a cultural expectation that she present some sort of benefit or titillation for the male gaze, which, if anything, is the antithesis of professionalism. How about men keep their sexual desires out of the workplace?

To my mind, the point of dress codes have to do with two things:

1. Degree of body coverage
2. Degree of uniformity

In other words, it's controlling how much your appearance might become a subject of attention. Usually, more formal = less attention, due to a combination of less of the body being seen, and increased uniformity (especially for men). Make-up doesn't do anything for either of those things. If anything, make-up is a potential detriment to uniformity. And indeed, in my own work history, I've seen several dresscodes that place limitations on make-up, and I've never had a job that required it.

Because of how our society currently is, dress codes aimed at women will always be longer, because female-assigned clothes simply offer more choices. Drop-back dresses simply aren't an option in the men's section, ya know?

But what is wrong with simply having the same relatively straight-forward clean, sharp, and covered expectation there usually is for men? Sure, you'll need a couple extra sentences to cover skirts versus pants or whatever, but why does it need to be fundamentally different from men's requirements?

Why do men just need to be clean, sharp, and covered, but women need to make themselves appealing to men? How the hell is that "professional"?
 
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Sopapia said:
Recently there was a scandal about General Mike Flynn's dress code involving makeup and skirts. Understandably I would be appalled if I had to wear makeup to work as a requirement, but then I also understand where they're coming from. Makeup generally is an improvement on the appearance, and appearance is important in our society because people will judge your competence by it. You want your employees to look professional in their work, and makeup is usually an important part.

At what point would you draw the line though? You definitely don't want to have your workers showing up in clown costumes, but there are professional appearances to be kept. Altogether I'm undecided.
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It is sexist when the standards are different

If make up is required, make it required for all. If skirts are required, make it for all. A simple solution to a problem that should not exist.

This only applies to jobs that are not appearance based (modeling, servers at certain food establishments)
 
A dress code fits the boss -- that's all there is to it. If I want to live by my own rules, I'll create a situation (work for myself) where I make the rules. If I want someone to give me a paycheck, I'll do what they ask. If I don't like what they ask, I'll fire my boss and go find a new one.

Every employee is a representative of their boss or their company. They are well within their rights to dictate how those representatives appear to others. I extend this to behavior clauses and just firings for unacceptable private behavior that becomes public such as through social media.

This goes back to something my father told me for the first 18 years of my life. "As long as you are living under my roof, you live under my rules." Needless to say, I haven't lived at home since I was 18...
 
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