Never is Now - ADL director promises to register as a Muslim

Goshin said:

I have read the Quran. I'll admit I skimmed quite a lot... the "kill all the Jews and conquer the infidels" got very repetitive and boring.

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It doesn t teach to kill Jews just because they are Jews. I did not get that from reading. One of the prophets wives was Jewish, and the Quran permits Muslims to marry within the Abraham religions. The least tolerate of people the Quran is towards is atheists, people who believe nothing, and pagans.

SheWolf said:

It doesn t teach to kill Jews just because they are Jews. I did not get that from reading. One of the prophets wives was Jewish, and the Quran permits Muslims to marry within the Abraham religions. The least tolerate of people the Quran is towards is atheists, people who believe nothing, and pagans.

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The Quran teaches that Jews and other infidels must be converted, killed, or subjugated. Repeatedly.


I imagine being married to Mohammad was considered subjugation.

sanman said:

This only reinforces my point - you'll go after the small Christian bakery, and meanwhile the egregious actions of Muslim countries are given a free pass by you. Dems want to pile sanctions on Russia, but not a peep out of them against Muslim countries. WTF?

(Note: I'm an atheist)

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GrandMal went after a small Christian bakery?

Shame on him, then.

Or, are you referring to the anti discrimination law that doesn't let businesses, "Christian" or not, to refuse service based on religion, race, or sexual orientation?

Goshin said:

The Quran teaches that Jews and other infidels must be converted, killed, or subjugated. Repeatedly.


I imagine being married to Mohammad was considered subjugation.

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It says interfaith marriages are allowed. It also refers to Jews as people of the book or friends of the book. Depending on translation. I am not going to say there is no violence, or that there are parts that seem to be in contradiction. It says the Jews lost their way just like Christian thinking. If you skimmed it, and that's all you remember then that is probably your bias because it's not a central message of the book. Its not even a central teaching on how to see or treat Jews.

SheWolf said:

It says interfaith marriages are allowed. It also refers to Jews as people of the book or friends of the book. Depending on translation. I am not going to say there is no violence, or that there are parts that seem to be in contradiction. It says the Jews lost their way just like Christian thinking. If you skimmed it, and that's all you remember then that is probably your bias because it's not a central message of the book. Its not even a central teaching on how to see or treat Jews.

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Oddly enough I disagree. There was so much "kill the jews, subjugate the infidel" that it got quite repetitious. If it isn't a central message it sure is spoken of a great deal.

Not to mention reading it gave me the impression of being awash in the thoughts of someone whose mental processes worked very oddly and in a very non-linear fashion. IE something not quite right in someone's turban...

Goshin said:

Oddly enough I disagree. There was so much "kill the jews, subjugate the infidel" that it got quite repetitious. If it isn't a central message it sure is spoken of a great deal.

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I was talking to my friends from the ME about this discussion and their reaction was the same as mine. They also say that Jews and Christians do not automatically qualify as infidel. They can break down translations and explain the Arabic meaning. Shaytan is the ultimate infidel. Nothing is directly taught to kill all Jews and all Christians, or that they are all infidels.

SheWolf said:

I was talking to my friends from the ME about this discussion and their reaction was the same as mine. They also say that Jews and Christians do not automatically qualify as infidel. They can break down translations and explain the Arabic meaning. Shaytan is the ultimate infidel. Nothing is directly taught to kill all Jews and all Christians, or that they are all infidels.

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Ok. I am aware that there are different branches of Islam who interpret the Quran differently, and that one of the large traditions does interpret it in a relatively peaceful manner. I forget the name of this branch but I am aware of it.

I am also aware that many interpret it more literally and militantly, far far too many for anyone's comfort.


How do we seperate the wheat from the chaff? Those who are already radicalized or at risk of it, from those who are not?

Especially in light of Taqqiya?


Thus, my dilemma regarding Muslims and particularly Muslim immigration and refugees.

sanman said:

This only reinforces my point - you'll go after the small Christian bakery, and meanwhile the egregious actions of Muslim countries are given a free pass by you. Dems want to pile sanctions on Russia, but not a peep out of them against Muslim countries. WTF?

(Note: I'm an atheist)

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Did you read what I wrote? Scroll back and read it again. Pay attention when you do. You're all over the map here, there's no way to decipher what point you're trying to make.

Alt Right MAGA said:

How so? We do not let in members of groups we are at war with, that has be the SOP since always.

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We aren't at war with people fleeing ISIS or the oppressive Syrian government.

Goshin said:

Ok. I am aware that there are different branches of Islam who interpret the Quran differently, and that one of the large traditions does interpret it in a relatively peaceful manner. I forget the name of this branch but I am aware of it.

I am also aware that many interpret it more literally and militantly, far far too many for anyone's comfort.


How do we seperate the wheat from the chaff? Those who are already radicalized or at risk of it, from those who are not?

Especially in light of Taqqiya?


Thus, my dilemma regarding Muslims and particularly Muslim immigration and refugees.

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My friends are Sunni, which is a very encompassing label. Some Sunnis are more devout than others. They honestly don't even know what the concept of taqqiya is. I knew what you are referring to, because I have seen it mentioned on the board. If you talk to a Shi'ite Muslim you would probably get a different reaction, maybe, IDK. It was an ancient practice by Shi'ites to protect themselves against Sunni violence. It's often misunderstood and misinterpreted, and has no modern relevance to most people. Being Muslim involves five basic pillars:

Shahadah: The muslim profession of faith

Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day

Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy

Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan

Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca.


Most muslims take the profession of faith and fasting during Ramadan the most seriously. I don't know many American Muslims who pray five times a day. Friday is typically the only day of prayer.