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RAND PAUL: John Bolton is 'totally unfit' for secretary of state

AlbqOwl said:
All violate the Constitution and all should be denounced regardless of a person's ideology or partisanship.
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agreed
AlbqOwl said:
The only real controversy is whether the Fourth and Fifth Amendments apply to those making war against the United States and its citizens. I think the debate should start there and proceed in an orderly manner.
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When the charge is making war against the US, how do we suspend the Fourth and Fifth without also depriving people who are not guilty of making war against the US?

and another question: How is requiring people to pay a fee for a decision that impacts all of us, taxpayers and/or ratepayers (the decision not to have health insurance) in order to defray costs a violation of the Constitution?
 
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Dittohead not! said:
agreed


When the charge is making war against the US, how do we suspend the Fourth and Fifth without also depriving people who are not guilty of making war against the US?

and another question: How is requiring people to pay a fee for a decision that impacts all of us, taxpayers and/or ratepayers (the decision not to have health insurance) in order to defray costs a violation of the Constitution?
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The Constitution assigns no authority to the federal government to have anything to do with what the citizens must do re healthcare. Even though the government stretch the legality by providing Medicare and Medicaid, nobody was required to participate in either. As for forcing the taxpayers to fund Medicare and Medicaid, we can have an honest debate whether such authority was ever given the federal government, but at least they were only illegally taking our money but were not otherwise violating our rights. Obamacare violates almost every aspect of civil liberties intended by the Constitution.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Not in my opinion, but it's a hard sell in this country for some reason.

Some things are individual benefit, and should be paid for by individuals. Housing, food, clothing, cars, all fall under that category.
Some things are collective benefit, and should be paid for collectively. Education, roads, bridges, and health care all fit under that category.

It's really quite simple and shouldn't be a partisan issue at all, IMO.

and yet when someone talks about universal health care or tuition free public universities, the "socialist" "communist" Marxist" labels start being applied.
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The reason is pretty simple: insurance company greed. They've spent many, many millions over the years trying to scare the uneducated with exactly that kind of socialist-commie-marxist propaganda, which of course is a total lie.
 
AlbqOwl said:
That's right. As I said fallible people will always be in charge and there will always be missteps and error and faulty judgment and some will be disappointed or angry even when it goes exactly as it should. Because those of us judging those in charge are also fallible and capable of errors of perception and judgment.

But in this case, I AM going with time-tested principles. We know for a fact and have witnessed with our own eyes the evil intent of militant islamofacist terrorists who will hurt us given a chance to do so. I prefer that principle to be first and foremost in the minds of those we entrust with the power to defend us against that and I believe they have been very good with the responsibility entrusted to them while not infringing on the way we live our lives any more than is necessary.
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The human eye can be tricked, in case you didn't know it. ;) Humans can be tricked, they can be misled and provided a diet of fabrications. Casey said that they would know when the disinformation efforts were successful when everything the American people believed was false.

So what really happened, compared to what you think happened, are very far apart. We were all deceived as government took control of our lives, but it's way beyond my power to do anything about it. At least I understand that it's happened.
 
AlbqOwl said:
The Constitution assigns no authority to the federal government to have anything to do with what the citizens must do re healthcare. Even though the government stretch the legality by providing Medicare and Medicaid, nobody was required to participate in either. As for forcing the taxpayers to fund Medicare and Medicaid, we can have an honest debate whether such authority was ever given the federal government, but at least they were only illegally taking our money but were not otherwise violating our rights. Obamacare violates almost every aspect of civil liberties intended by the Constitution.
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Not to change the subject, but the way we handle our healthcare system, which everybody needs from time to time, everybody should be entitled to IMO, the way we do it is stupid. I've had several doctors tell me they favor universal healthcare, but having the insurance industry in between the patient and the physician is downright stupid. Poor policy, after watching for many years. :)
 
Thoreau72 said:
The human eye can be tricked, in case you didn't know it. ;) Humans can be tricked, they can be misled and provided a diet of fabrications. Casey said that they would know when the disinformation efforts were successful when everything the American people believed was false.

So what really happened, compared to what you think happened, are very far apart. We were all deceived as government took control of our lives, but it's way beyond my power to do anything about it. At least I understand that it's happened.
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One thing has nothing to do with the other. The threat/danger from Islamic terrorists is real regardless of whatever other problems or issues we have with government or anything else.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Not to change the subject, but the way we handle our healthcare system, which everybody needs from time to time, everybody should be entitled to IMO, the way we do it is stupid. I've had several doctors tell me they favor universal healthcare, but having the insurance industry in between the patient and the physician is downright stupid. Poor policy, after watching for many years. :)
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So you approve of the government dictating and administrating our healthcare but oppose the government providing security from Islamic terrorists?

I'm having a hard time reconciling that as rational. I have not only watched both for many years but have worked in the healthcare industry for a number of years. And for reasons I can't say in a venue like this, I have some insight into the problems and issues with terrorism too. So I am pretty sure I am on solid footing with both.
 
AlbqOwl said:
So you approve of the government dictating and administrating our healthcare but oppose the government providing security from Islamic terrorists?

I'm having a hard time reconciling that as rational. I have not only watched both for many years but have worked in the healthcare industry for a number of years. And for reasons I can't say in a venue like this, I have some insight into the problems and issues with terrorism too. So I am pretty sure I am on solid footing with both.
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You are having trouble reconciling because you misunderstand my position.

No AO, I do NOT approve of government (or the insurance industry, by way of the insurance industry) dictating and administrating our healthcare under the present format, the complete control of the insurance industry.

Now, IF an intelligent and practical system could be designed so that ALL CITIZENS could receive healthcare as a birthright, I think that would be good.
 
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