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Most of the so-called "far-right" are actually Left-Authoritarians

Viking11

Viking11

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I saw the NSM and KKK platforms. They're actually more economically left-wing than progressives. They support things like extreme trade protectionism, a 'living wage', nationalization of industry, strict environmental regulations and single-payer universal health insurance.
 
That's because the GOP is fiscally liberal and has been for a very long time. They talk a good game but when it comes down to it, they push all kinds of very liberal ideas. A truly conservative party would insist on living within its fiscal means, never borrowing money from China, never engaging in protectionism, never giving tax perks to businesses, etc. But that's not what we have in the GOP.
 
Viking11 said:
I saw the NSM and KKK platforms. They're actually more economically left-wing than progressives. They support things like extreme trade protectionism, a 'living wage', nationalization of industry, strict environmental regulations and single-payer universal health insurance.
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Which is why using terms like left and right do not really work

There is a link to a chart here on DP that uses two axis. One to detail social views (libertarian vs Aurthortarian) and the other to detail economic views ( free market vs governmental control/regulation).
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Which is why using terms like left and right do not really work

There is a link to a chart here on DP that uses two axis. One to detail social views (libertarian vs Aurthortarian) and the other to detail economic views ( free market vs governmental control/regulation).
Click to expand...

I know. That's why I said they were Left-Authoritarians.
 
Viking11 said:
I know. That's why I said they were Left-Authoritarians.
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They're not.

Some are fascists, which is Right wing. Many are isolationists, which is reactionary (that can swing either way).

Bottom line: they want totalitarian government, or something nearly as extreme. What happens is the first thing they would do is kill their political opponents, which kills politics.

It simply isn't neat and simple, although I would allow that it's a disgusting mess.
 
late said:
They're not.

Some are fascists, which is Right wing. Many are isolationists, which is reactionary (that can swing either way).

Bottom line: they want totalitarian government, or something nearly as extreme. What happens is the first thing they would do is kill their political opponents, which kills politics.

It simply isn't neat and simple, although I would allow that it's a disgusting mess.
Click to expand...

Why do liberals keep talking about government control all of sudden like it's a bad thing? I mean, are people really supposed to take you people seriously with that ****? If you guys weren't always trying to expand the governments domain of authority then maybe you could be taken seriously with your OMFG totalitarian stuff, but right now it's just laughable that you people have the balls to speak up against it.
 
Henrin said:
Why do liberals keep talking about government control all of sudden like it's a bad thing? I mean, are people really supposed to take you people seriously with that ****? If you guys weren't always trying to expand the governments domain of authority then maybe you could be taken seriously with your OMFG totalitarian stuff, but right now it's just laughable that you people have the balls to speak up against it.
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You really don't understand much.
 
late said:
You really don't understand much.
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I understand that there isn't anything in the economy that you don't want the government to touch. Care to prove me wrong?
 
late said:
They're not.

Some are fascists, which is Right wing. Many are isolationists, which is reactionary (that can swing either way).

Bottom line: they want totalitarian government, or something nearly as extreme. What happens is the first thing they would do is kill their political opponents, which kills politics.

It simply isn't neat and simple, although I would allow that it's a disgusting mess.
Click to expand...

Fascism would be right-wing if you put nationalism, ethnic supremacy, and religious fundamentalism on the left/right scale instead of the authoritarian/libertarian scale. But I strongly believe those things belong on the authoritarian/libertarian scale, not the left/right scale. The left/right scale deals with economic views.
 
Cephus said:
That's because the GOP is fiscally liberal and has been for a very long time. They talk a good game but when it comes down to it, they push all kinds of very liberal ideas. A truly conservative party would insist on living within its fiscal means, never borrowing money from China, never engaging in protectionism, never giving tax perks to businesses, etc. But that's not what we have in the GOP.
Click to expand...



You didn't pay attention to what he said.


WP groups, tend to be racial socialists, environmentalists, and collectivists as well.


often promote very left wing views, cept of course they add in the racism.
 
EVERYONE needs to step back and take a deep breath. You're all hung up on Left vs Right etc.

The real problem in America is that BOTH sides are being manipulated and buying into the exact game they (the big money elitist) are playing on us all both left and right.

The game is all about consolidating power and wealth in a few at the top. To do that they need ALL of us focused on a different enemy...each other.

With all their billions, they use the media to fan the flames of hatred toward one another and thus keep us away from the real problem. CAREER POLITICIANS payed to do the bidding for those elitist.

I hope over the next 4 years Americas start to see the real enemy and stop being suckered into this never ending cycle.
 
Viking11 said:
Fascism would be right-wing if you put nationalism, ethnic supremacy, and religious fundamentalism on the left/right scale instead of the authoritarian/libertarian scale. But I strongly believe those things belong on the authoritarian/libertarian scale, not the left/right scale. The left/right scale deals with economic views.
Click to expand...

We would have to discuss the bits and pieces. I am not averse to that, but I will likely have to get going soon. I do question forcing things into that straitjacket.

Nationalism can be Left or Right, and putting it on the other axis sounds like you want to reduce it to a quantity.

Aside from that, I think that more variables are needed. Not saying I know what they are, just that the model you use feels incomplete.
 
late said:
They're not.

Some are fascists, which is Right wing. Many are isolationists, which is reactionary (that can swing either way).

Bottom line: they want totalitarian government, or something nearly as extreme. What happens is the first thing they would do is kill their political opponents, which kills politics.

It simply isn't neat and simple, although I would allow that it's a disgusting mess.
Click to expand...

Fascists and communists share the same basic premise--state power over individual rights. Both require a massive and oppressive state apparatus to implement their ideologies. So the root of both ideologies is leftism, because it is the left that creates and empowers the totalitarian state. There is no difference in the end between being a slave to a communist or a slave to a fascist. You are still a slave. Liberals seem to have developed this romantic notion that they can create a benevolent despotism where everything is smiles and sunshine, but it doesn't work that way.
 
Viking11 said:
I saw the NSM and KKK platforms. They're actually more economically left-wing than progressives. They support things like extreme trade protectionism, a 'living wage', nationalization of industry, strict environmental regulations and single-payer universal health insurance.
Click to expand...

Not sure I completely agree with the idea here but there is some room for discussion.

In practical application, the only real difference between a right leaning authoritarian and a left leaning authoritarian are the reasons for the authoritarian part. I am a little on the fence on the argument in governmental terms but a right leaning authoritarian tends to come down to a belief system as reason for it (i.e. Islam and a baked into the text governmental ideology to apply social constructs or Christianity who sometimes lean theocratic and seek governance to apply their tenets to the population by social constructs.) A left leaning authoritarian might conclude with similar ideas in practice but the source for left leaning does not have to be system of belief based, odds are we are talking about a matter of government (leaning towards totalitarian style governance) and economics (leaning towards planned economies.)

So to expand upon that "extreme trade protections" is more an example of isolationism and looking for closed but market economies, not really an example of "left wing progressive" ideology as that is more Libertarian in nature.

However, having a controlled "living wage" (planned economics) and/or "single payer health systems" (socialized or planned economics) and/or nationalization of industries (also planned economics) would be examples of left leaning ideologies.

The KKK (past or modern) is a bit of an enigma in this discussion. Economically they tend to lean market and not want much governmental interference, socially they tend to lean isolationist by race and the yearbook reason from them is an interpretation of a system of belief in concert with absurd notions on what race really means. They may want some protections for their economy (like trade restrictions) but the last thing they want is a planned socialist based economy.
 
Fletch said:
Fascists and communists share the same basic premise--state power over individual rights.

Both require a massive and oppressive state apparatus to implement their ideologies. So the root of both ideologies is leftism, because it is the left that creates and empowers the totalitarian state.

There is no difference in the end between being a slave to a communist or a slave to a fascist. You are still a slave. Liberals seem to have developed this romantic notion that they can create a benevolent despotism where everything is smiles and sunshine, but it doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that was the first time today I laughed.

You are viewing government as a quantity, and the more there is, the more Left there is.

Totalitarian governments don't have politics, they simply kill any political rivals.

What you've done there is equate socialism (both kinds) with totalitarian government.

But if you look at Europe, the socialist countries are usually freer than we are, and not in the slightest degree totalitarian.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You didn't pay attention to what he said.


WP groups, tend to be racial socialists, environmentalists, and collectivists as well.


often promote very left wing views, cept of course they add in the racism.
Click to expand...

Except the left is largely anti-white racist as well. They have a serious hate-on for wealthy white men. Racist, sexist, classist, all of that applies to the radical left.
 
NoLeftNoRight said:
EVERYONE needs to step back and take a deep breath. You're all hung up on Left vs Right etc.

The real problem in America is that BOTH sides are being manipulated and buying into the exact game they (the big money elitist) are playing on us all both left and right.

The game is all about consolidating power and wealth in a few at the top. To do that they need ALL of us focused on a different enemy...each other.

With all their billions, they use the media to fan the flames of hatred toward one another and thus keep us away from the real problem. CAREER POLITICIANS payed to do the bidding for those elitist.

I hope over the next 4 years Americas start to see the real enemy and stop being suckered into this never ending cycle.
Click to expand...

That has been the premise of the Progressive movement for over a century.
The language of the Progressive Era needs to be updated, but the goal is the same.

"The main objective of the Progressive movement was eliminating corruption in government. The movement primarily targeted political machines and their bosses. By taking down these corrupt representatives in office a further means of direct democracy would be established. They also sought regulation of monopolies (Trust Busting) and corporations through antitrust laws. These antitrust laws were seen as a way to promote equal competition for the advantage of legitimate competitors."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era
 
Cephus said:
Except the left is largely anti-white racist as well. They have a serious hate-on for wealthy white men. Racist, sexist, classist, all of that applies to the radical left.
Click to expand...


That much is true.


racism is not the just of of one political dominion.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Not sure I completely agree with the idea here but there is some room for discussion.

In practical application, the only real difference between a right leaning authoritarian and a left leaning authoritarian are the reasons for the authoritarian part. I am a little on the fence on the argument in governmental terms but a right leaning authoritarian tends to come down to a belief system as reason for it (i.e. Islam and a baked into the text governmental ideology to apply social constructs or Christianity who sometimes lean theocratic and seek governance to apply their tenets to the population by social constructs.) A left leaning authoritarian might conclude with similar ideas in practice but the source for left leaning does not have to be system of belief based, odds are we are talking about a matter of government (leaning towards totalitarian style governance) and economics (leaning towards planned economies.)

So to expand upon that "extreme trade protections" is more an example of isolationism and looking for closed but market economies, not really an example of "left wing progressive" ideology as that is more Libertarian in nature.

However, having a controlled "living wage" (planned economics) and/or "single payer health systems" (socialized or planned economics) and/or nationalization of industries (also planned economics) would be examples of left leaning ideologies.

The KKK (past or modern) is a bit of an enigma in this discussion. Economically they tend to lean market and not want much governmental interference, socially they tend to lean isolationist by race and the yearbook reason from them is an interpretation of a system of belief in concert with absurd notions on what race really means. They may want some protections for their economy (like trade restrictions) but the last thing they want is a planned socialist based economy.
Click to expand...

We are operating under different defintions of Right and Left... as far as I know right and left terms only deal with economic freedom. Has nothing to do with religion.
 
late said:
Thanks, that was the first time today I laughed.

You are viewing government as a quantity, and the more there is, the more Left there is.

Totalitarian governments don't have politics, they simply kill any political rivals.

What you've done there is equate socialism (both kinds) with totalitarian government.

But if you look at Europe, the socialist countries are usually freer than we are, and not in the slightest degree totalitarian.
Click to expand...
They aren't freer than we are and socialism is totalitarian; its makes the individual subservient to the state or the social or the community or the other. You like it because you see it as benevolent and you agree with its goals. Try disagreeing and see how benevolent your state becomes.
 
late said:
You really don't understand much.
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oh and btw, I got the defination correct.

Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible
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You didn't answer how your ideology doesn't fall under the definition, you know.

Oh and btw, regulated doesn't mean banned. You know, just in case you thought it meant no freedom whatsoever.
 
I had to double check what sub forum this thread was in........................... and was shocked that it's not in the conspiracy theories sub forum.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
That much is true.


racism is not the just of of one political dominion.
Click to expand...

But I don't see it institutionalized on the right the way it's clearly become on the left. Being racist and sexist is part of the regressive narrative. It's a fundamental part of what they are and they simply refuse to be honest about it.
 
Fletch said:
They aren't freer than we are and socialism is totalitarian; its makes the individual subservient to the state or the social or the community or the other. You like it because you see it as benevolent and you agree with its goals. Try disagreeing and see how benevolent your state becomes.
Click to expand...

table_2_2012_human_freedom_index_and_sub-indices.jpg


Saying it doesn't make it so...
 
Cephus said:
But I don't see it institutionalized on the right the way it's clearly become on the left. Being racist and sexist is part of the regressive narrative. It's a fundamental part of what they are and they simply refuse to be honest about it.
Click to expand...

Nice attempt to imitate.
 
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