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The jobs aren't coming back

Incisor

Incisor

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OK everyone. We have to be realistic. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back. The jobs from the 50's and 60's that the Olds like to romanticize are gone and will not return. The only way those jobs come back is if American workers work for the same wage and in the same conditions that the Chinese workers do. And that just ain't happening. So now, the jobs that used to be considered "working class" are gone and nothing has filled that void. However, there has been an increase in service jobs. So if service jobs are now the new working class, those working those jobs must get a wage we traditionally think working class folks should get. If we're not going to do that, then we are going to have to continue with these benefits programs you loathe so much in order to make up the gap between a minimum wage and a living wage. That's the only way the equation works, folks.

Now if you want these manufacturing jobs, you're going to have to figuratively manufacture them. You do that via government mandate. Something along the lines of; by a certain date, all federal buildings must get their energy from 100% renewable sources and those sources have to be manufactured in the USA. To get the industry started, the US military puts in an order of X solar panels for all their bases worldwide, and that order is filled by a domestic manufacture who gets crazy tax credits to retrofit those old car plants in Detroit to make solar panels. It would be a huge undertaking, but one we have to do if we aren't content with having service jobs as the new working class.
 
Incisor said:
OK everyone. We have to be realistic. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back. The jobs from the 50's and 60's that the Olds like to romanticize are gone and will not return. The only way those jobs come back is if American workers work for the same wage and in the same conditions that the Chinese workers do. And that just ain't happening. So now, the jobs that used to be considered "working class" are gone and nothing has filled that void. However, there has been an increase in service jobs. So if service jobs are now the new working class, those working those jobs must get a wage we traditionally think working class folks should get. If we're not going to do that, then we are going to have to continue with these benefits programs you loathe so much in order to make up the gap between a minimum wage and a living wage. That's the only way the equation works, folks.

Now if you want these manufacturing jobs, you're going to have to figuratively manufacture them. You do that via government mandate. Something along the lines of; by a certain date, all federal buildings must get their energy from 100% renewable sources and those sources have to be manufactured in the USA. To get the industry started, the US military puts in an order of X solar panels for all their bases worldwide, and that order is filled by a domestic manufacture who gets crazy tax credits to retrofit those old car plants in Detroit to make solar panels. It would be a huge undertaking, but one we have to do if we aren't content with having service jobs as the new working class.
Click to expand...

Why not do that with steel? Or textiles? Why wait for solar panels?
 
So, you're saying the cause of the problem, the government, should now be the solution?

governmentdemotivator.jpeg
 
There will be more job losses to Singapore unless you guys pull up your socks.
 
Incisor said:
OK everyone. We have to be realistic. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back. The jobs from the 50's and 60's that the Olds like to romanticize are gone and will not return. The only way those jobs come back is if American workers work for the same wage and in the same conditions that the Chinese workers do. And that just ain't happening. So now, the jobs that used to be considered "working class" are gone and nothing has filled that void. However, there has been an increase in service jobs. So if service jobs are now the new working class, those working those jobs must get a wage we traditionally think working class folks should get. If we're not going to do that, then we are going to have to continue with these benefits programs you loathe so much in order to make up the gap between a minimum wage and a living wage. That's the only way the equation works, folks.

Now if you want these manufacturing jobs, you're going to have to figuratively manufacture them. You do that via government mandate. Something along the lines of; by a certain date, all federal buildings must get their energy from 100% renewable sources and those sources have to be manufactured in the USA. To get the industry started, the US military puts in an order of X solar panels for all their bases worldwide, and that order is filled by a domestic manufacture who gets crazy tax credits to retrofit those old car plants in Detroit to make solar panels. It would be a huge undertaking, but one we have to do if we aren't content with having service jobs as the new working class.
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TL:DR businesses are allowed to write-off the cost of shipping jobs overseas but not the cost of bringing them back. OOPS!
 
RDS said:
There will be more job losses to Singapore unless you guys pull up your socks.
Click to expand...

Why does this newer generation make fun of me for wearing white socks and white tennis shoes? I'm not a fashionable sort of guy, but I still don't get what's wrong with it.
 
Brewdog said:
So, you're saying the cause of the problem, the government, should now be the solution?
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Government wasn't the cause of $18/hr jobs moving to China where they pay $18/day. That's all corporate greed. Unless you're saying we should work for the same wages and in the same conditions as Chinese workers do.
 
Fletch said:
Why not do that with steel? Or textiles? Why wait for solar panels?
Click to expand...

Incisor forgot to take into account the fact that the CHINESE flooded our market with subsidized solar panels and killed our solar panel industry! The only thing that prevented even more damage was the fact that we created a tariff. Most of the damage had already been done. The same short-sighted liberals that whined when all those solar panel jobs failed under Obama but are too dumb to realize why. Yet they piss and moan about tariffs, even though that's literally the only thing that stopped the Chinese from killing off even more of our solar panel jobs.
 
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Fletch said:
Why not do that with steel? Or textiles? Why wait for solar panels?
Click to expand...

1. We don't need to wait, we know how to build solar panels.

2. The textile and steel jobs are not coming back unless American workers are willing to work Chinese wages and standards. And that ain't happening. We can control our own domestic renewable energy market and then export that innovation and technology worldwide. But it needs to start with the government. Something this massive will take a lot of will and will be met with opposition from the fossil fuel industry, who have vested profit interests in the energy policy of our nation. They flex their political will to stop it.
 
Incisor said:
Government wasn't the cause of $18/hr jobs moving to China where they pay $18/day. That's all corporate greed. Unless you're saying we should work for the same wages and in the same conditions as Chinese workers do.
Click to expand...

Corporate greed meaning they didn't want to pay up to a total of 45% in tax on earnings (depending on your state)? That raises prices by 45% on their products which means that companies in other countries can sell their products for cheaper.

If "Corporate Greed" means wanting to make a profit, then I guess they're greedy.
 
reinoe said:
Incisor forgot to take into account the fact that the CHINESE flooded our market with subsidized solar panels and killed our solar panel industry!
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No, I did take that into account, and if you read my post, you'd see my proposal starts with a government mandate. We can pass laws here saying our federal buildings can only get energy from domestic, renewable sources if we want. There's no rule against that. I believe that the quality and reliability of American-made panels would be superior to that of Chinese, and in an open market, buyers will opt for the high quality US ones over the cheap Chinese ones. But I believe in American ingenuity. Some people don't.
 
Fletch said:
Why not do that with steel? Or textiles? Why wait for solar panels?
Click to expand...

The Chinese did the same thing to the Solar Panel industry that they did to our steel industry. Our markets got flooded with Chinese subsidized steel and undercut our own homegrown market: killing thousands of jobs. A tariff against Chinese steel stopped the bleeding.
 
Brewdog said:
Corporate greed meaning they didn't want to pay up to a total of 45% in tax on earnings (depending on your state)?
Click to expand...

Tax on income, and moving labor overseas have nothing to do with one another. The only taxes you are not paying when you outsource labor are payroll taxes. Because your labor is over there. They move jobs overseas because they can pay workers in a day what they pay you in an hour. That's it. It's got nothing to do with income taxes. BTW - the average effective corporate tax rate is about 12-13%. Not 45%.
 
Incisor said:
No, I did take that into account, and if you read my post, you'd see my proposal starts with a government mandate. We can pass laws here saying our federal buildings can only get energy from domestic, renewable sources if we want. There's no rule against that. I believe that the quality and reliability of American-made panels would be superior to that of Chinese, and in an open market, buyers will opt for the high quality US ones over the cheap Chinese ones. But I believe in American ingenuity. Some people don't.
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You're wrong. The Chinese panels are JUST AS GOOD as the American ones, but they're cheaper because the Chinese government subsidized their manufacture. WHOOPS! If the liberals were paying attention they'd have put 2x2 together about American solar panel industry got hurt real bad+the only thing that stopped the bleeding of American jobs were TARIFFS!

Even now our Solar Panel industry can't truly recover because there are HUNDREDS of warehouses full of Unused solar panels from China.
 
reinoe said:
TL:DR businesses are allowed to write-off the cost of shipping jobs overseas but not the cost of bringing them back. OOPS!
Click to expand...

When we gave business a "repatriation holiday" in 2004, the result was negative. It ended up costing jobs. The jobs are not coming back unless Americans are willing to work for $18/day in a windowless factory with suicide nets.
 
reinoe said:
You're wrong. The Chinese panels are JUST AS GOOD as the American ones, but they're cheaper because the Chinese government subsidized their manufacture.
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I don't think they're just as good...in fact, I'm gonna need you to support this claim. But even so, Americans can't innovate better? I refuse to believe that.
 
Lol......

Lets just do the "equations" and pretend your really not pushing for a " Green Jobs part deux ".

Rule of thumb, a typical commercial building needs close to 3 watts per sq ft and the typical solar voltaic panel produces 8 to 10 watts per sq ft.

The General Services Administration, the Govt body that handles all the Govt buildings just so happens to keep track of total lease space owned and leased.

Its close to 380 million sq ft. At 3 watts per sq ft thats a electrical load of 1.14 Gigawatts. Divide by 10 watts per sq ft and its a solar array 114 000,000 sq ft solar array or 4 sq miles of solar panels

The Pentagon is 6.6 sq ft on its own at 3 watts per sq ft so its total electrical load of 20 megawatts. The Pentagon alone would need 2,000,000 Sq ft of solar panels and that doesn't include a data center sized building to hold the batteries and inverters to power the building when its cloudy, or when its dark.

And then there's Germany, who's own renewable energy initiative failed miserably. Theyre cutting back rewable energy subsidies sharply this year as the average German pays 3 times per KWH what the average American pays

Germany Votes To Abandon Most Green Energy Subsidies | The Daily Caller
 
Brewdog said:
So, you're saying the cause of the problem, the government, should now be the solution?

<snip>
Click to expand...
Wha???

The "government" didn't cause glottalization! :doh
 
I think yall a missing a big point here

In recent years, factories have been coming back, but the jobs haven’t. Because of rising wages in China, the need for shorter supply chains and other factors, a small but growing group of companies are shifting production back to the U.S. But the factories they build here are heavily automated, employing a small fraction of the workers they would have a generation ago.
Click to expand...

Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back | FiveThirtyEight
 
Moderator's Warning:
Thread moved from B/N.
 
Incisor said:
OK everyone. We have to be realistic. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back. The jobs from the 50's and 60's that the Olds like to romanticize are gone and will not return. The only way those jobs come back is if American workers work for the same wage and in the same conditions that the Chinese workers do. And that just ain't happening. So now, the jobs that used to be considered "working class" are gone and nothing has filled that void. However, there has been an increase in service jobs. So if service jobs are now the new working class, those working those jobs must get a wage we traditionally think working class folks should get. If we're not going to do that, then we are going to have to continue with these benefits programs you loathe so much in order to make up the gap between a minimum wage and a living wage. That's the only way the equation works, folks.

Now if you want these manufacturing jobs, you're going to have to figuratively manufacture them. You do that via government mandate. Something along the lines of; by a certain date, all federal buildings must get their energy from 100% renewable sources and those sources have to be manufactured in the USA. To get the industry started, the US military puts in an order of X solar panels for all their bases worldwide, and that order is filled by a domestic manufacture who gets crazy tax credits to retrofit those old car plants in Detroit to make solar panels. It would be a huge undertaking, but one we have to do if we aren't content with having service jobs as the new working class.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as "service" economy, if economy means wealth creation.

If what you are saying is true about the manufacturing jobs not coming back, then this country is doomed as no country can run a trade deficit forever buying things it does not make.

BTW, there are only three ways to create a nation's wealth: through agriculture, manufacturing and mining. Period.

Service jobs do not create wealth. They only move money from one pocket to another. At the end of the day, the total is still the same.
 
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back.
 
legalimmigrant said:
There is no such thing as "service" economy, if economy means wealth creation. If what you are saying is true about the manufacturing jobs not coming back, then this country is doomed as no country can run a trade deficit forever buying things it does not make. BTW, there are only three ways to create a nation's wealth: through agriculture, manufacturing and mining. Period. Service jobs do not create wealth. They only move money from one pocket to another. At the end of the day, the total is still the same.
Click to expand...

The only way those manufacturing jobs come back is if American workers work for the same wages and under the same conditions that Chinese workers do. And that ain't happening. You can create manufacturing jobs by manufacturing government demand for renewable energy. That's one way to jump start manufacturing. Problem is those manufacturing jobs left and were replaced with service jobs. So if the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, then that means service jobs are the new working class jobs.
 
Incisor said:
Government wasn't the cause of $18/hr jobs moving to China where they pay $18/day. That's all corporate greed. Unless you're saying we should work for the same wages and in the same conditions as Chinese workers do.
Click to expand...

of course you should , because as one poster told me, globalism makes people a lot of money...

because that's what Globalism is, of course... making use of what amounts to slave labor. which in turn puts a lot of money in just a few people's hands back over here, since there are no tariff's or anything to gain access to what amounts to our biggest advantage.. for now.. our huge consumer market... thus of course any corporate entity is going to go for that efficiency, its all about maximizing profits.

and all they have to do, is sell out and screw over the rest of the country. whats the problem?
 
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