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‘What the hell do you have to lose?’

Bucky

Bucky

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Our country is an absolute mess so I ask, what the hell do you have to lose voting in Donald J Trump As President?

  • Our national debt is nearly $20 trillion, nearly double what is was when Bush left office.
  • During Obama’s tenure, the percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line has advanced, according to the most recent Census Bureau data, from 25.8 in 2009 to 26.2 in 2014 — up 1.6 percent.
  • Our army is the smallest since 1940, our navy is the smallest since 1916.
  • The Obama administration has cut fewer nuclear warheads than any other previous administration.
  • Health care costs are higher than at anytime under Bush or Clinton.

So what do we have to lose when Hillary Clinton will likely exacerbate these numbers? FYI these are just a few items. There are many more. Americans are struggling left and right. Blacks are in a complete desperate state. America's status has completely diminished where China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc have no fear of the U.S anymore. ISIS has grown from 700-800 when Bush left office to 25,000-30,000 under Obama.

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE?
 
Bucky said:
Our country is an absolute mess so I ask, what the hell do you have to lose voting in Donald J Trump As President?

  • Our national debt is nearly $20 trillion, nearly double what is was when Bush left office.
  • During Obama’s tenure, the percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line has advanced, according to the most recent Census Bureau data, from 25.8 in 2009 to 26.2 in 2014 — up 1.6 percent.
  • Our army is the smallest since 1940, our navy is the smallest since 1916.
  • The Obama administration has cut fewer nuclear warheads than any other previous administration.
  • Health care costs are higher than at anytime under Bush or Clinton.

So what do we have to lose when Hillary Clinton will likely exacerbate these numbers? FYI these are just a few items. There are many more. Americans are struggling left and right. Blacks are in a complete desperate state. America's status has completely diminished where China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc have no fear of the U.S anymore. ISIS has grown from 700-800 when Bush left office to 25,000-30,000 under Obama.

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE?
Click to expand...

OK, that is just stupid on so many levels. From stupid comparisons of the military(hint: both the army and navy are far more capable currently than they where when you listed), to complaining about health care costs being up when they almost always go up, your list of complains is, well, stupid. But that is minor compared to the idea that we don't have nothing to lose. The US is the greatest country on Earth. We may not be the best in everything, but we are among the top in almost every possible area. What we could lose is considerable.

Let's look at some specifics. Trump calls for deporting millions of people. He also calls for reducing significantly government spending. Now, ask yourself what happens to an economy with fewer people in it, and fewer people of working age(remember, baby boomers are retiring), and with less money being pumped into it? The economy tends in those situations to get smaller. So unless other factors outweigh those(and nothing in Trump's economic plan would), growth would either slow or go negative. That is a significant loss.

Trump has called for tariffs and trade wars. What this means for Americans is more expensive products, and fewer export markets(hint: that is bad for jobs). Making things more expensive is bad for every one. That is a significant loss.

Trump's foreign policy could best be described as schizophrenic. Our allies will not be happy, our alliances even less so. We could lose basing rights in key countries if he tries to push through what he wants. The end result is far less influence in the world, less security, and less stability. That is a significant loss.

So to answer your question: what do we have to lose, the answer is a whole lot.
 
Redress said:
Let's look at some specifics. Trump calls for deporting millions of people. He also calls for reducing significantly government spending. Now, ask yourself what happens to an economy with fewer people in it, and fewer people of working age(remember, baby boomers are retiring), and with less money being pumped into it? The economy tends in those situations to get smaller. So unless other factors outweigh those(and nothing in Trump's economic plan would), growth would either slow or go negative. That is a significant loss.
Click to expand...

These illegal immigrants are not helping our economy, they are hurting it. They are rapists, murderers, lazy, dregs on society essentially. Getting rid of these amigos would create a boon for our economy.

Do you want to know who also believe that? Obama.

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President - ABC News

According to governmental data, the Obama administration has deported more people than any other president's administration in history. In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century.
Click to expand...

Redress said:
Trump has called for tariffs and trade wars. What this means for Americans is more expensive products, and fewer export markets(hint: that is bad for jobs). Making things more expensive is bad for every one. That is a significant loss.
Click to expand...

I like Trump's idea a hell of a lot better than Hillary Clinton's:

"I think everybody is in favor of free and fair trade. I think NAFTA is proving its worth," said Clinton, according to a 1996 Associated Press report.
Click to expand...

I've looked at this, I've studied it, I think it is in the interests of America and American workers that we provide the option for China to go into the WTO.
Click to expand...

Here are some of the words she used to describe TPP: "exciting," "innovative," "ambitious," "groundbreaking," "cutting-edge," "high quality," "high standard" and "gold standard."
Click to expand...

Donald Trump's largely accurate about Clinton's past support for NAFTA, TPP | PolitiFact

Redress said:
Trump's foreign policy could best be described as schizophrenic. Our allies will not be happy, our alliances even less so. We could lose basing rights in key countries if he tries to push through what he wants. The end result is far less influence in the world, less security, and less stability. That is a significant loss.

So to answer your question: what do we have to lose, the answer is a whole lot.
Click to expand...

Hillary has vowed to kill the President of Syria and shoot down Russian planes, engaging in cyber and military warfare against Vladimir Putin.

How is assassinating world leaders and shooting down Russian planes going to help us?

Again, with Trump, what the hell do you have to lose when you already know the answer with Hillary Clinton?
 
I don't want live in the America you live in, sounds like things are going quite awfully.
 
"What do we have to lose?"

Oh... I dunno.. the international standing we absolutely still have that the republicans have convinced their selves is already gone which Americans have already damaged by being supportive of Donald Trump despite him being so incredibly ignorant (I spent 2015 and half of 2016 traveling around the world in 26 countries. I am not speaking out of my a$$ here).. the economic gain and growth we've enjoyed directly because of our international trade deals over the last few decades that Donald Trump refuses to acknowledge..decades of progress on social decency standards that normally encourage our leaders to not be openly racist and misogynistic which Donald Trump has shattered at every turn..any shot at developing our economy in ways that might actually be effective..a tax system that even comes close to paying for our expenditures..a sensible foreign policy (not saying we have one now, but Donald Trump has offered the most incomprehensible statements on foreign policy I've ever heard)..women's reproductive rights..any chance at passing even the simplest gun control measures..any possible chance we have at working with the world to mitigate climate change..any hope of rebuilding relations with Muslim countries..oh and most important of all, the opportunity to not have to hear him make an a$$ of himself over and over again on the national stage.
 
Bucky said:
The Obama administration has cut fewer nuclear warheads than any other previous administration.
Click to expand...

While your list is predictably idiotic, and I'll leave it to others with more time and interest to fully demolish it, this one jumped out at me as particularly moronic.

1. Fewer warheads have been cut because there's fewer warheads to be cut.

2. Obama can't unilaterally cut stockpiles. Moscow has resisted any cuts past 2010's New Start treaty, and the Senate (OUR Senate) has utterly refused to even acknowledge, much less consider, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/17/obama-nuclear-arsenal-disarmament-russia-congress
 
Bucky said:
These illegal immigrants are not helping our economy, they are hurting it. They are rapists, murderers, lazy, dregs on society essentially. Getting rid of these amigos would create a boon for our economy.

Do you want to know who also believe that? Obama.

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President - ABC News
Click to expand...

That's a farce. The Obozo Administration is lying about the numbers by combining voluntary returns with deportations. Voluntary returns plus REAL deportations used to exceed 2.2 million a year. But actual deportations, as defined under federal law, were around 250,000 a year. Now, both put together are 400,000 instead of 2.2 million.

So, now he's claiming that today, we have 400,000 of both deportations and voluntary returns total which he says is more than 2.2 million because they're changing the definition of deportation to a new one to fit their own "facts" and to lie to you like they've been doing for 8 years. Bush used to expel 5 and a half times the number of illegal aliens as Obozo. And Bush was no friend to immigration enforcement. Fact. Look it up. Or don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...amned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/
Lies, damned lies, and Obama’s deportation statistics
 
Redress said:
OK, that is just stupid on so many levels. From stupid comparisons of the military(hint: both the army and navy are far more capable currently than they where when you listed), to complaining about health care costs being up when they almost always go up, your list of complains is, well, stupid. But that is minor compared to the idea that we don't have nothing to lose. The US is the greatest country on Earth. We may not be the best in everything, but we are among the top in almost every possible area. What we could lose is considerable.

Let's look at some specifics. Trump calls for deporting millions of people. He also calls for reducing significantly government spending. Now, ask yourself what happens to an economy with fewer people in it, and fewer people of working age(remember, baby boomers are retiring), and with less money being pumped into it? The economy tends in those situations to get smaller. So unless other factors outweigh those(and nothing in Trump's economic plan would), growth would either slow or go negative. That is a significant loss.

Trump has called for tariffs and trade wars. What this means for Americans is more expensive products, and fewer export markets(hint: that is bad for jobs). Making things more expensive is bad for every one. That is a significant loss.

Trump's foreign policy could best be described as schizophrenic. Our allies will not be happy, our alliances even less so. We could lose basing rights in key countries if he tries to push through what he wants. The end result is far less influence in the world, less security, and less stability. That is a significant loss.

So to answer your question: what do we have to lose, the answer is a whole lot.
Click to expand...

Just one point you take there. Do you think that it is okay for millions to break the law and to accept that as a precedent?
 
joG said:
Just one point you take there. Do you think that it is okay for millions to break the law and to accept that as a precedent?
Click to expand...

No. That is entirely beside the point I was making. Reducing the population has a cost. Does not mean it is not worth doing, but it does have a cost. And saying what do we have to lose, when the reality is we have things pretty ****ing good, that is just painfully silly. We have a lot we could potentially lose. That is not so much an argument against Trump, just an argument against a really stupid argument.
 
Redress said:
OK, that is just stupid on so many levels. From stupid comparisons of the military(hint: both the army and navy are far more capable currently than they where when you listed),
Click to expand...

Errr...in a sense you're correct but that's merely a matter of advancement in technology. Our numbers are being cut and we can barely afford to go do ranges to keep up on even basic weapons qualification requirements.

We have the numbers to beat up some little guys but any actual large scale operations against anyone of decent size and capabilities our numbers won't cover it very well. Again, technology helps in that regard, so I'm not sure how it would come out but if it was something that dragged out, it would be rough. We were stressed and battle fatigued just keeping up the constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Fishking said:
Errr...in a sense you're correct but that's merely a matter of advancement in technology. Our numbers are being cut and we can barely afford to go do ranges to keep up on even basic weapons qualification requirements.

We have the numbers to beat up some little guys but any actual large scale operations against anyone of decent size and capabilities our numbers won't cover it very well. Again, technology helps in that regard, so I'm not sure how it would come out but if it was something that dragged out, it would be rough. We were stressed and battle fatigued just keeping up the constant rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Merely a matter of technological advancement?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_level_of_military_equipment

Click on any of those equipment types and you will see we LAP and I mean LAP every other country, often the WORLD, in military equipment numbers. We only lose in # of tanks to and total nuclear warheads (barely). We have more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined.

Also we have the second largest active military in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

I think its to be expected we were stretched a little thin while waging 2 decade long wars wars while also maintaining a worldwide projection of power. I would strongly wager our military's size is not the issue, rather its mission is much too large.
 
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Redress said:
No. That is entirely beside the point I was making. Reducing the population has a cost. Does not mean it is not worth doing, but it does have a cost. And saying what do we have to lose, when the reality is we have things pretty ****ing good, that is just painfully silly. We have a lot we could potentially lose. That is not so much an argument against Trump, just an argument against a really stupid argument.
Click to expand...

The thing is, we absolutely do not want the the precedent of accepting mass law breaking and families thanking ancestors for breaking the law. If we allow these people to stay, it must be connected to a punishment. Maybe a fine of say $20.000 per illegal entry.
 
Bucky said:
Our country is an absolute mess so I ask, what the hell do you have to lose voting in Donald J Trump As President?

  • Our national debt is nearly $20 trillion, nearly double what is was when Bush left office.
  • During Obama’s tenure, the percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line has advanced, according to the most recent Census Bureau data, from 25.8 in 2009 to 26.2 in 2014 — up 1.6 percent.
  • Our army is the smallest since 1940, our navy is the smallest since 1916.
  • The Obama administration has cut fewer nuclear warheads than any other previous administration.
  • Health care costs are higher than at anytime under Bush or Clinton.

So what do we have to lose when Hillary Clinton will likely exacerbate these numbers? FYI these are just a few items. There are many more. Americans are struggling left and right. Blacks are in a complete desperate state. America's status has completely diminished where China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc have no fear of the U.S anymore. ISIS has grown from 700-800 when Bush left office to 25,000-30,000 under Obama.

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE?
Click to expand...

There was a time when leftists despised Wall St. Now that Globalist Granny is in their back pocket, we don't hear a peep out of them. Interesting. Yes, we are in bad shape, thanks to leftists and their idiotic ideology. They're are globalists, just like Granny, Soros, and Wall St. we have a lot to lose.

But we have a lot to gain. Corruption for one. If you think the federal gov't is corrupt now, wait until Granny gets in there. She'll leave the White House a billionaire, no doubt.
 
Redress said:
No. That is entirely beside the point I was making. Reducing the population has a cost. Does not mean it is not worth doing, but it does have a cost. And saying what do we have to lose, when the reality is we have things pretty ****ing good, that is just painfully silly. We have a lot we could potentially lose. That is not so much an argument against Trump, just an argument against a really stupid argument.
Click to expand...

A "progressive" that thinks we have it really good... for whom?
 
"What do you have to lose?"

Garry Wills has the answer to this question in the current issue of The New York Review of Books:

"Everything."
 
JackA said:
"What do you have to lose?"

Garry Wills has the answer to this question in the current issue of The New York Review of Books:

"Everything."
Click to expand...

In many parts of this country it feels like ***** Syria or Iraq. Kids are getting their brains blown up my cops. I'm not sure what fantasy land some of you liberals are living in but we do not have it great here.
 
Bucky said:
Our country is an absolute mess so I ask, what the hell do you have to lose voting in Donald J Trump As President?

  • Our national debt is nearly $20 trillion, nearly double what is was when Bush left office.
  • During Obama’s tenure, the percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line has advanced, according to the most recent Census Bureau data, from 25.8 in 2009 to 26.2 in 2014 — up 1.6 percent.
  • Our army is the smallest since 1940, our navy is the smallest since 1916.
  • The Obama administration has cut fewer nuclear warheads than any other previous administration.
  • Health care costs are higher than at anytime under Bush or Clinton.

So what do we have to lose when Hillary Clinton will likely exacerbate these numbers? FYI these are just a few items. There are many more. Americans are struggling left and right. Blacks are in a complete desperate state. America's status has completely diminished where China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc have no fear of the U.S anymore. ISIS has grown from 700-800 when Bush left office to 25,000-30,000 under Obama.

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE?
Click to expand...

Trump wants to explode the debt with his amazingly bad fiscal policies. It is predicted he will bring the US debt up to 120% of GDP, which as Kenny Loggins would put it is: "the Danger Zone." Thee only way for Trump to not explode the debt would be get rid of either almost all entitlement spending or almost all defense spending. I also do not think you are aware of this but when Eisenhower was president adopted the policy of quality over quantity of the military, the US army may be comparatively small but it is also the best trained and well equipped by quite a large margin. Healthcare costs would also be higher under Trump as well because healthcare costs have always been increasing, regardless of who was in the White House, it is just now insurance companies have someone to blame and can exploit it. ISIS grew under Obama because the opportunities, like a civil war in Syria did not exist under Bush.
 
Bucky said:
In many parts of this country it feels like ***** Syria or Iraq. Kids are getting their brains blown up my cops. I'm not sure what fantasy land some of you liberals are living in but we do not have it great here.
Click to expand...

Frankly that is just insulting to the people of Iraq and Syria, they are having their homes blown up, being gassed, their entire cities destroyed, ISIS rule, etc.
 
What is it that you liberals want?

In 2008 it was change, blah blah blah. Experience is overrated. We do not need politics as usual.

Now in 2016 you are touting experience and praising Hillary as the most prepared person to become President even.

Is it change or experience you want? Make up your mind.
 
Bucky said:
What is it that you liberals want?

In 2008 it was change, blah blah blah. Experience is overrated. We do not need politics as usual.

Now in 2016 you are touting experience and praising Hillary as the most prepared person to become President even.

Is it change or experience you want? Make up your mind.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of people that are going to actually elect Clinton are not electing her because they "want her to be POTUS".

The vast majority will elect Clinton because they are absolutely terrified at the very thought of Trump becoming POTUS.
 
vash1012 said:
I think its to be expected we were stretched a little thin while waging 2 decade long wars wars while also maintaining a worldwide projection of power. I would strongly wager our military's size is not the issue, rather its mission is much too large.
Click to expand...

That's part of my point, and it doesn't look like Hillary is going to be doing anything but adding to that. So, again, stretched thin to accomplish the mission is going to continue, and possibly get worse.

Also, it still doesn't address current budgetary issues.
 
Bucky said:
In many parts of this country it feels like ***** Syria or Iraq. Kids are getting their brains blown up my cops. I'm not sure what fantasy land some of you liberals are living in but we do not have it great here.
Click to expand...

:lamo

That's a ****ing joke.

I'm from Chicago. Even here we know full well that it's not as bad as Syria or Iraq. It's certainly not good, of course, but we aren't getting ****ing bombed daily.

We already know about your strange obsessive hatred of Muslims and police officers. Which, of course, colors your worldview.
 
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