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After Clinton wins all three debates, Elvis leaves the building.

ajn678 said:
I know this election is depressing, but lay off the whiskey. My god.
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Hey, I'm not crazy about her in general - this I'll admit. But I do think she turned in a very good debate performance.

Check my post from another thread with a 1 minute video that exemplifies my thoughts.

Chomsky said:
You know, when I later reviewed certain parts of the debate later last night, I was impressed by the way she controlled and dominated the last hour. The split screen was awesome. While in his responses he'd be all angered & flummoxed over something she said, you could actually sense she was letting him rattle on, already having prepared for the response she would give, which was going to rattle him more! She seemed to be three steps ahead of him, and knew it - remaining smug & controlled.

Check-out how she lied-in-waiting for his inevitable slap at her 30 years in politics:


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Henrin said:
What exactly is your point in posting this thread?
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Clinton supporters are trying to convince themselves they are better people for supporting the lying bitch and that they are smarter than others if the lying bitch wins. Actually most polls had Hillary winning the first debate, Pence winning the second, Donald winning the third and Donald barely winning the fourth
 
Neomalthusian said:
Congratulations, the candidate your party elite selected for you and shoved down your throats will defeat the worst Presidential nominee in American history. You must feel just wonderful and be basking in what a glorious and remarkable victory that means for you.
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Bahaha I enjoyed that.
 
Chomsky said:
Hey, I'm not crazy about her in general - this I'll admit. But I do think she turned in a very good debate performance.

Check my post from another thread with a 1 minute video that exemplifies my thoughts.
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It was a good exchange. Trump gets graded on a curve because his "everything sucks, let's burn it down" message doesn't really rely on him presenting anything other than a damning critique of the established political order, which he does very well at times and really, really, really poorly at others. He doesn't do very much to convince you if you don't already think NAFTA and the Iran nuclear deal were terrible. He doesn't do anything to convince you he is actually more capable than the establishment at getting companies to act against their own best interest by bringing low skilled labor jobs and off shore money holdings back to the US. He DEFINITELY doesn't do anything to persuade me he is capable of getting better results from our military and diplomatic efforts. He does a decent /good job criticizing, but never builds his own credibility in a way that will speak to intelligent, discerning people. If you grade these two on an even level, Hillary won all 3 debates handily. She effectively criticized him. She effectively laid out policy proposals and criticized his when they actually got the opportunity. She did a terrible job defending herself most of the time, but she wouldn't have gained anything by getting defensive, as Trump showed everyone. I give him a F-, D, and D+ for the debates. She would get a B+, C, and B-.
 
vash1012 said:
It was a good exchange. Trump gets graded on a curve because his "everything sucks, let's burn it down" message doesn't really rely on him presenting anything other than a damning critique of the established political order, which he does very well at times and really, really, really poorly at others. He doesn't do very much to convince you if you don't already think NAFTA and the Iran nuclear deal were terrible. He doesn't do anything to convince you he is actually more capable than the establishment at getting companies to act against their own best interest by bringing low skilled labor jobs and off shore money holdings back to the US. He DEFINITELY doesn't do anything to persuade me he is capable of getting better results from our military and diplomatic efforts. He does a decent /good job criticizing, but never builds his own credibility in a way that will speak to intelligent, discerning people. If you grade these two on an even level, Hillary won all 3 debates handily. She effectively criticized him. She effectively laid out policy proposals and criticized his when they actually got the opportunity. She did a terrible job defending herself most of the time, but she wouldn't have gained anything by getting defensive, as Trump showed everyone. I give him a F-, D, and D+ for the debates. She would get a B+, C, and B-.
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Trump C, B+ B
Hillary B- B- B-
Pence A-
Kaine C-
 
There are three ways to tell when Trump is lieing;
1) he says "honestly" or "to tell the truth". 2) when he says " I didn't say that". 3) any time his lips are moving whether he is speaking or not.
 
vash1012 said:
It was a good exchange. Trump gets graded on a curve because his "everything sucks, let's burn it down" message doesn't really rely on him presenting anything other than a damning critique of the established political order, which he does very well at times and really, really, really poorly at others. He doesn't do very much to convince you if you don't already think NAFTA and the Iran nuclear deal were terrible. He doesn't do anything to convince you he is actually more capable than the establishment at getting companies to act against their own best interest by bringing low skilled labor jobs and off shore money holdings back to the US. He DEFINITELY doesn't do anything to persuade me he is capable of getting better results from our military and diplomatic efforts. He does a decent /good job criticizing, but never builds his own credibility in a way that will speak to intelligent, discerning people. If you grade these two on an even level, Hillary won all 3 debates handily. She effectively criticized him. She effectively laid out policy proposals and criticized his when they actually got the opportunity. She did a terrible job defending herself most of the time, but she wouldn't have gained anything by getting defensive, as Trump showed everyone. I give him a F-, D, and D+ for the debates. She would get a B+, C, and B-.
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I rate her last debate a bit higher than you, but your grading seams reasonable in terms of technical merit.

But in terms of succeeding on the debate platform in the context of moving one's respective campaign forward, the rating of the two candidates becomes even more disparate! (as can be seen by the polls)
 
TurtleDude said:
Trump C, B+ B
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Legitimately curious, where do you see Trump being a more effective debater in the last debate? Its not a rhetorical question. I would call the first few exchanges a relative draw. Both had strong and weak answers, but mainly played to their base. I'm just not sure what you saw in the last 45 minutes that would have you rating Donald so high.
 
vash1012 said:
Legitimately curious, where do you see Trump being a more effective debater in the last debate? Its not a rhetorical question. I would call the first few exchanges a relative draw. Both had strong and weak answers, but mainly played to their base. I'm just not sure what you saw in the last 45 minutes that would have you rating Donald so high.
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None of the three were classifiable as a "Debate". Essentially Trump ranted, Hilary poked him in his massive ego (what is he compensating for the lack of besides those small hands?) if he showed any sign of not making an ass of himself. That was it.
 
Chomsky said:
I rate her last debate a bit higher than you, but your grading seams reasonable in terms of technical merit.

But in terms of succeeding on the debate platform in the context of moving one's respective campaign forward, the rating of the two candidates becomes even more disparate! (as can be seen by the polls)
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Yea, that's a different metric. I would probably give her a A, C, and B+ if that's what we are going by. The second debate was really tough for her because he could make her look like a hypocrite for just about anything she said. That strategy would do him absolutely no good as we saw, but it doesn't help her either. In a harder test, she played it safe and didn't gain or lose much. Hence a C.
 
vash1012 said:
Yea, that's a different metric. I would probably give her a A, C, and B+ if that's what we are going by. The second debate was really tough for her because he could make her look like a hypocrite for just about anything she said. That strategy would do him absolutely no good as we saw, but it doesn't help her either. In a harder test, she played it safe and didn't gain or lose much. Hence a C.
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I actually thought she looked tight in the beginning half of the second debate, and think the Trump press conference ploy with Bill Clinton's accusers got to her under the surface. It was a dark & dismal debate, except for the very end.

But I will say this: Throughout the debates she did a pretty good job deflecting and pivoting off her negatives. Besides the "different faces" accusation in the 2nd debate, she moved away from negative issues reasonably adroitly. Now this was often helped greatly by Trump's inability to perceive openings or take advantage of them as they came up - but none-the-less she deftly avoided serious pitfalls.
 
Chomsky said:
But I will say this: Throughout the debates she did a pretty good job deflecting and pivoting off her negatives. Besides the "different faces" accusation in the 2nd debate, she moved away from negative issues reasonably adroitly. Now this was often helped greatly by Trump's inability to perceive openings or take advantage of them as they came up - but none-the-less she deftly avoided serious pitfalls.
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Oh jeez, when she barely spent a full sentence explaining her "open borders, open trade" speech quote before pivoting to Russia trying to influence the election, I was like "Man, Hill, you gotta put a little more effort than.." then Trump hops in and instead of addressing the quote and her obvious contradictory positions, he goes in full defense mode about how Putin isn't his best friend. When you are debating Trump, I guess the rules are a little different haha.
 
vash1012 said:
Legitimately curious, where do you see Trump being a more effective debater in the last debate? Its not a rhetorical question. I would call the first few exchanges a relative draw. Both had strong and weak answers, but mainly played to their base. I'm just not sure what you saw in the last 45 minutes that would have you rating Donald so high.
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I was watching carefully and keeping an eye on The Luntz tracking on his focus groups. Hillary's opening lie was on the second amendment-it was patent and obvious. Trump's low moment was the silliness about accepting the results but the real low was hillary's dancing around the sale of access with her foundation.
 
Realitywins said:
None of the three were classifiable as a "Debate". Essentially Trump ranted, Hilary poked him in his massive ego (what is he compensating for the lack of besides those small hands?) if he showed any sign of not making an ass of himself. That was it.
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Hackery at its worst.
 
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