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Finally a real true debate

Gaugingcatenate said:
That being said, is it possible with what we know, through wikileaks, about what happened over on the DNC side? With what we know now about collusion/coordination of media with the Clinton campaign. Certainly its possible, hell, its most likely to occur at some level.
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No one denies collusion and strategizing. That is what political parties do. You think Fox News does not collude with the GOP? That doesn't make this election uniquely "rigged."

This two party system needs to be deconstructed and remade into something more democratic and less corrupting. However, the snake oil salesman known as Donald Trump is not the solution.


With the timing and abundance of these bimbo eruptions,
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You can thank Trump, himself, for that timing. Those accusations came after he flat-out denied during the debate of ever inappropriately touching another woman. He even went so far as to say "no one has more respect for women than me." If he was honest and said, "I have made mistakes in the past and I am regretful. But I work every day to be a better person/leader" then these women would have stayed quiet. Instead, he forced them out into the public eye because they couldn't handle the lies anymore.
 
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Gaugingcatenate said:
Ypp. Its not like its criminal or anything. Now breaking laws like YOUR candidate...that is actually criminal.
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Deflection time!

"Crap, I've been caught in my own hypocrisy, now it is time to bring up Clinton's record!"

FYI, I am not a Clinton fan and I am not voting for her.
 
Geoist said:
No one denies collusion and strategizing. That is what political parties do. You think Fox News does not collude with the GOP? That doesn't make this election uniquely "rigged."

This two party system needs to be deconstructed and remade into something more democratic and less corrupting. However, the snake oil salesman known as Donald Trump is not the solution.




You can thank Trump, himself, for that timing. Those accusations came after he flat-out denied during the debate of ever inappropriately touching another woman. He even went so far as to say "no one has more respect for women than me." If he was honest and said, "I have made mistakes in the past and I am regretful. But I work every day to be a better person/leader" then these women would have stayed quiet. Instead, he forced them out into the public eye because they couldn't handle the lies anymore.
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No one person is ever the solution. However, the side that allowed the process to be controlled by the voters was/is better than the now openly rigged side. If you want to remake the system, handing back control to the establishment riggers is not on the way to a solution. Hell, its not handing control back, its generally a baton exchange, no matter the party, from one picked by the influence riggers to the next.

With no newspaper endorsements, so many from his own side, the real establishment types, saying they will vote for Hillary or, at minimum, not endorse their own side's candidate... surely you don't have such narrow blinders on to not see what is actually going on... or do you?

I was not a fan before the campaign started, still have a problem at times with his approach, but with self funding, with as many of the issues that I agree with him upon, my growing hatred of anything smacking of politically correct, much easier for me to pick him than you, no doubt. If it were, say, Bernie Sanders and Jeb Bush [ read: major establishment guy] it would also be hard for me to choose BS since I am so anti socialist. But Bernie revealed his inner dark soul anyhow, siding with the establishment's chosen devil. So its a moot point, the non debatable kind of moot.

As to the bimbo eruptions, I would agree that he probably should have said something similar to what you indicate. Would have been smarter, but he is not the coiffed smooth talking politician Bill Clinton was... add to that I think most of these are just put up jobs by the Hillary campaign... heap all the dirt at the last minute, you slime the other guy and nobody has the chance to verify before the election is here and over, wham bam thank you all you mams.

If they are all lies, do we get a do over? No.
 
eohrnberger said:
What's worse?

A crooked politician that has a history of 'pay for play' and owes a great many a great deal of 'donations' (favors) who becomes POTUS, or a demagoguing braggart?
Everyone has their own take on that, and everyone is a legitimate one.

The choices in this election have to be the worst in the history of the nation.

Hey, I voted Kasich in the primary. None of this is of my making.
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So not knowing where your state was in the primary i have to ask why you voted for him. Im not croticizing him as a candidate but the later in the race you cast it the more of a throw away vote it seems. Was it early or late?

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ludin said:
the irony of this statement is lost on you.



the democrats had the chance to do the same and failed.
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I disagree the democrat voters had no voice. Rhey didnt pick clinton the dnc did

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trouble13 said:
So not knowing where your state was in the primary i have to ask why you voted for him. Im not croticizing him as a candidate but the later in the race you cast it the more of a throw away vote it seems. Was it early or late?

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At the time I voted for Kasich in the primary he was still in the running. Maybe not the top few spots, but surely, his experience, his campaign tenor, his policy positions, would win over the GOP voters, or at least so I thought. I thought that he was the right choice for the nation at this time. In this sense, yes, the GOP voters disappointed me as well.
 
eohrnberger said:
At the time I voted for Kasich in the primary he was still in the running. Maybe not the top few spots, but surely, his experience, his campaign tenor, his policy positions, would win over the GOP voters, or at least so I thought. I thought that he was the right choice for the nation at this time. In this sense, yes, the GOP voters disappointed me as well.
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I feel your pain i went with cruz. I liked paul too. Easnt big into kasiach but i can see why you and others supported him. He wasnt a bad pick just not the best candidate running in this moment imo

Im not a trump guy but hey he won. At least the right had a real election. I support trump now not bevause he is better i refuse to not do everything i can to stop the media from picking our next potus

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Geoist said:
Deflection time!

"Crap, I've been caught in my own hypocrisy, now it is time to bring up Clinton's record!"

FYI, I am not a Clinton fan and I am not voting for her.
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Far be it from me to bring up something so abhorrent, so despicable, so indicative of corruption and incompetence simultaneously [ like stagflation they thought it impossible before it actually happened under Jcarter.] manipulative and yes, said if before, criminal. I mean, its an election between two candidates, why bring up the bad record of the worst one... isn't that being, you know c'mon, a little biased, over the top a little prejudiced?

I am truly unconcerned with whether you are a Hillary fan or not, I am truly concerned for my country. No, he isn't my number one choice in the world, either. Far from it. He is just my number one choice in this set of circumstances. I get it I get it, you think him Hitlerarian in orange hair. That'd be a tad on the insipid/grossly exaggerated side, don't you think? I mean if you feel you are objective. And I mean if Obama didn't get to make himself dictator, you think that all those on the left are gonna allow Trump [either?]?

Uh uh.
 
trouble13 said:
I feel your pain i went with cruz. I liked paul too. Easnt big into kasiach but i can see why you and others supported him. He wasnt a bad pick just not the best candidate running in this moment imo

Im not a trump guy but hey he won. At least the right had a real election. I support trump now not bevause he is better i refuse to not do everything i can to stop the media from picking our next potus

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Yeah, I'm dead set against allowing the corrupt Clinton political machine and their complicit colluding media stooges access to the power of the office. Not so much voting for Trump as voting against Clinton and her criminal mafia.

Any wonder why the media is pushing any negative stories about Trump to the near exclusion of a single thing about the WikiLeaks revelations of how manipulative and corrupt The Clinton Campaign and The Clinton Foundation are? Al in the corruption tank with Hill and Bill. No surprise they want compliant and unaware sheeple to be led around by them by the nose.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
No one person is ever the solution. However, the side that allowed the process to be controlled by the voters was/is better than the now openly rigged side.
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The GOP worked actively to prevent a Trump nomination, up to the convention and beyond. They are no better than the Dems. The only difference is the Dems succeeded where the GOP failed.


If you want to remake the system, handing back control to the establishment riggers is not on the way to a solution.
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Handing the election to an self-serving egomaniac is even worse. With Trump in office it will just confirm that the Establishment-types "should be in charge." A Trump Presidency would be an even greater setback than a Clinton Presidency.


With no newspaper endorsements, so many from his own side, the real establishment types, saying they will vote for Hillary or, at minimum, not endorse their own side's candidate... surely you don't have such narrow blinders on to not see what is actually going on... or do you?
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There are also many anti-establishment-types who strongly oppose a Trump Presidency far more than a Clinton Presidency. I am reminded by how the libertarian celebrity Penne Jillette has an "I'm Ready For Hillary" bumper sticker on his car. Of course, he is not voting for her or directly supports her, he just knows a Trump Presidency would be a huge setback for the anti-establishment movement.


If it were, say, Bernie Sanders and Jeb Bush [ read: major establishment guy] it would also be hard for me to choose BS since I am so anti socialist. But Bernie revealed his inner dark soul anyhow, siding with the establishment's chosen devil. So its a moot point, the non debatable kind of moot.
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Sometimes it is best to stick with the devil you know.

As to the bimbo eruptions, I would agree that he probably should have said something similar to what you indicate. Would have been smarter, but he is not the coiffed smooth talking politician Bill Clinton was... add to that I think most of these are just put up jobs by the Hillary campaign... heap all the dirt at the last minute, you slime the other guy and nobody has the chance to verify before the election is here and over, wham bam thank you all you mams.
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There have certainly been claims to connections with the Clinton Campaign. The most popular one has turned out to be false.

Would Clinton coordinate such a smear campaign in secret? I wouldn't doubt it for a second. But the simplest answer is often the correct one, and I think this is more of a case of Trump consistently shooting himself in the foot and pissing off a lot of people.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Far be it from me to bring up something so abhorrent, so despicable, so indicative of corruption and incompetence simultaneously [ like stagflation they thought it impossible before it actually happened under Jcarter.] manipulative and yes, said if before, criminal. I mean, its an election between two candidates, why bring up the bad record of the worst one... isn't that being, you know c'mon, a little biased, over the top a little prejudiced?

I am truly unconcerned with whether you are a Hillary fan or not, I am truly concerned for my country. No, he isn't my number one choice in the world, either. Far from it. He is just my number one choice in this set of circumstances. I get it I get it, you think him Hitlerarian in orange hair. That'd be a tad on the insipid/grossly exaggerated side, don't you think? I mean if you feel you are objective. And I mean if Obama didn't get to make himself dictator, you think that all those on the left are gonna allow Trump [either?]?

Uh uh.
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This is the way I see it: We survived 8 years of Clinton I, 8 years of Dubya, and 8 years of Obama. We can make it through 4 years of the same old policies with Clinton II. I am not so sure we can make it through 4 years of Trump.
 
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Geoist said:
The GOP worked actively to prevent a Trump nomination, up to the convention and beyond. They are no better than the Dems. The only difference is the Dems succeeded where the GOP failed.
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Alice in Wonderland revisited. So, let me recap what you appear to be saying. Since the Democrat establishment was able to successfully rig their side and the GOP was unable, you count that a plus, a positive. That the elites got to choose instead of the people now is the higher mission of our American electoral system? Wow, just wow.


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Geoist said:
Handing the election to an self-serving egomaniac is even worse. With Trump in office it will just confirm that the Establishment-type self-serving egomaniac s "should be in charge." A Trump Presidency would be an even greater setback than a Clinton Presidency.
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All at that level are to some degree or another “ self-serving egomaniac”s, part and parcel of the game at that level. Actually, I will be interested in you informing me how the guy that the Republican Establishment has tried to thwart at every step of the way...and is still pursuing this anti-constituent path, just how has he become, in your obviously jaundiced eyes, “ the Establishment-type”?




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Geoist said:
There are also many anti-establishment-types who strongly oppose a Trump Presidency far more than a Clinton Presidency. I am reminded by how the libertarian celebrity Penne Jillette has an "I'm Ready For Hillary" bumper sticker on his car. Of course, he is not voting for her or directly supports her, he just knows a Trump Presidency would be a huge setback for the anti-establishment movement.
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Uh huh. Quite simply, wow, very particularly unpersuasive.




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Geoist said:
Sometimes it is best to stick with the devil you know.
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Sometimes, sure. Most assuredly not in this case.



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Geoist said:
There have certainly been claims to connections with the Clinton Campaign. The most popular one has turned out to be false.
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If it was coordinated by the Clintons, I really do not expect it to be readily apparent until after the election, if then. I am pretty sure the degrees of separation have been carefully planned and plotted, with pay offs similarly disguised in ways that would make for a good suspense novel.

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Geoist said:
Would Clinton coordinate such a smear campaign in secret? I wouldn't doubt it for a second. But the simplest answer is often the correct one, and I think this is more of a case of Trump consistently shooting himself in the foot and pissing off a lot of people.
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I think a crowning wiki-leaks post might just be evidence of this coordination of the current bimbo brigade parade we see going on today.

The Clintons, both lawyers, both unscrupulous, both very much experienced in methods of covert subversion at the highest levels... and yet perhaps not tech savvy or sufficiently prescient enough to have planned ahead for an Assange wiki attack in this manner, might have wittingly thought they had covered all angles, had dotted every i, had crossed every t.

One can only hope, cross one's fingers, knock on wood and pray for god to give us at least one more chance.

While I had my doubts about you, Assange, here's to you, buddy.
 
Geoist said:
This is the way I see it: We survived 8 years of Clinton I, 8 years of Dubya, and 8 years of Obama. We can make it through 4 years of the same old policies with Clinton II. I am not so sure we can make it through 4 years of Trump.
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I see it a bit differently.

Yes, we did survive 8 with both Clinton I and GWB. However, we are on our last leg at the end of two O bomba admins, hanging on by mere tendon memory strength. The O bomba third term, or as it will be commonly known as Hillary first term, will be the end of America as we currently know it.

I am already in full secession mode. Have been since the 2012 elections. The growing numbers of the discontent at all the unwanted but forced social experimentation, the too vast overreach by the Feds into every aspect of our daily lives, the emasculation of our military and the almost total disregard for both our heritage and the Constitution will swell with the election of such a corrupt entity.

So, actually its a win win situation. If Trump wins, we get at least one more chance to right the listing ship. If Hillary wins, with those oh so important and overpowering of our rights leftward lurch of her appointees to the Supreme Court... this will force, will drive many on the fence over the cliff and into the movement for secession.

Hell, we want to protect our daughters and sons, our granddaughters and grandsons, our posterity. There will be no other choice.
 
Visbek said:
lol

That was still early days for polls, and the headline also relied heavily on "conventional wisdom," along with the Chicago Tribune's pro-Republican / anti-Truman bias.

Oh, and it was almost 70 years ago.

While no poll is 100% accurate, pollsters have certainly gotten better since then.



Then why is Trump acting like a total loser? Why do we see signs of anticipatory balancing in down ballot races? Why did Trump praise the polls that predicted his primary victory?

While the election is not over, at the rate things are going I suspect you will be in for a rude awakening on November 8th.
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Well, it was actually Nov 9 before we found out for sure, but what were you saying about a rude awakening? About what, pray tell? :lamo Like your crow fried, broiled, baked, perhaps? :lamo
 
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