Americans, by and large, are morons, and don't deserve what they've been given

EMNofSeattle said:

You don't need to save much, just beginning a decent investment early gets the compound interest starting

There's two excellent podcasts I recommend, "The Dave Ramsey Show" (and his book the total money makeover is excellent) and his friend Chris Hogan does an affiliated podcast called "retire inspired" which covers these topics. A lot of it is US centric on the law and tax implications but the general concepts should cover you as well

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Exactly!

I always tried to set a goal of 10% net of every check or income source I received (with varying degrees of success). Start that like religion as a kid, and it will pay-off over the years & decades if invested wisely.

cpwill said:

I haven't thought to check my credit score in ages. Turns out I'm in the 770s/780s . Guess I"m not using the credit card enough to pull it higher :shrug: ohwell. Beautiful thing about living without debt is, a lower credit score doesn't harm you.

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I only use one credit card now, it gives me American airlines miles, and if I eat at certain places, I get 6 miles for every dollar I spend. This Sapphire card looks amazing...downsides, $450 to get the card, but you get $300 in travel fees for free..including parking, hotels, etc, and you gotta charge $4000 in first 3 months, for my American Airlines card, I had to do $3000, so I found a third party that I could use for a fee to do a mortgage payment, I have been doing 3-4X my payments to kill the debt, so it worked. If I knew how much business travel I had coming up in the next year, that would help. I am planning a vacation around March to Iceland and Ireland, so it might be really nice for that.

EMNofSeattle said:

Being im now an atheist, the Christian preaching in the show is a little annoying, but it's full of good content and I regularly listen, I credit Ramsey with saving me from at least 3 bad financial decisions (two involving cars the other school debt) and I just started investing s couple of months ago to save for my old age.

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Good for you. I've been steadily investing in my 401K since I started working - even if it was only a few bucks a paycheck. It adds up over time.

cpwill said:

Most of my credit score comes from having a work credit card I'm required to use for travel. But yeah, as a general rule, I don't recommend them to folks - debit cards have come a long way.

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Wait a minute, you should dump that card if they're reporting it to your credit bureau report, Amex corporate cards especially, they make it so you're liable for account charges if your boss doesn't pay or goes out of business, ask for company checks or just do what I do, pay out of pockets and keep the receipts and expense it. Make sure you're not holding the bag though for the card though

Chomsky said:

Exactly!

I always tried to set a goal of 10% net of every check or income source I received (with varying degrees of success). Start that like religion as a kid, and it will pay-off over the years & decades if invested wisely.

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Amen! If your company has 401(k), and they match, you would be a fool not to invest to get the matching. My company has a 6% match with a 4 year vesting period, in March, I'll be vested for 75% of the company match..its free freaking money, and I'm invested conservatively, but doing nearly 10% growth for the year. Take free money when people offer it.

EMNofSeattle said:

Wait a minute, you should dump that card if they're reporting it to your credit bureau report, Amex corporate cards especially, they make it so you're liable for account charges if your boss doesn't pay or goes out of business, ask for company checks or just do what I do, pay out of pockets and keep the receipts and expense it. Make sure you're not holding the bag though for the card though

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:shrug: my employer is the federal government, and we're required to use it for public transparency, accountability, etc (a general officer who used to be aid to SECDEF Carter is currently in trouble over taking his to a certain "high class" establishment where the pretty ladies will dance on your lap).

But I'll take it up with POTUS the next time we do lunch.

cpwill said:

Most of my credit score comes from having a work credit card I'm required to use for travel. But yeah, as a general rule, I don't recommend them to folks - debit cards have come a long way.

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Agreed. I finally broke down and got a credit card a few years ago, after being without one for at least 10 years, only because renting a car on a debit card is hugely inconvenient. Otherwise it's the debit card for pretty much everything.

Hari Seldon said:

The credit union I work for tries to educate but you should see some of our accounts. Truly amazing, especially the retired fire fighter sending money to Nigeria.

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There is no fool like an old fool.

My late mother at one time was getting calls from scammers stating she won a lottery. My sister and I repeatedly told her to slam the phone down on these scumheads and she would agree with us that she knew it was a scam but with the next sentence would say, "oh but wouldn't it be nice win that money". We would shake our heads because we knew she would never slam the phone on them but carry on conversations with them.............argh.

Chomsky said:

Exactly!

I always tried to set a goal of 10% net of every check or income source I received (with varying degrees of success). Start that like religion as a kid, and it will pay-off over the years & decades if invested wisely.

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:lol: how come so many of our wisest posters in this regard are our liberal ones? Most embarrassing

EMNofSeattle said:

My FICO score is zero, I don't borrow money. If you can play with Cobras without being bit then good on you, I will never recommend someone play with snakes, getting an 860 credit score means you've been payng way too much interest I your life

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That is no way to manage your money. I pay back everything early because I only buy what I can afford. Get a mortgage, pay it early, get a car loan, pay it off early. Never overdraw on your accounts and pay off things.

Paying off too much interest? I haven't paid interest on a credit card in 10 years! I have paid 25 years of my mortgage off in 7.5 years, I have eliminated tens of thousands of dollars of interest. You don't understand credit or loans, you clearly don't.

beefheart said:

Amen! If your company has 401(k), and they match, you would be a fool not to invest to get the matching. My company has a 6% match with a 4 year vesting period, in March, I'll be vested for 75% of the company match..its free freaking money, and I'm invested conservatively, but doing nearly 10% growth for the year. Take free money when people offer it.

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Why conservative? I'm 55 and still investing my 401K funds fairly aggressively.

I read an article in the NY Times recently where the author, a money manager, suggested that even for people nearing retirement, conservative investing no longer makes sense since lifespans have increased so much. If you're going to have to live on your 401K for 20 or 30 years he contended it makes no sense to be conservative because you still have a long investment timeline. His argument made sense to me.

cpwill said:

:shrug: my employer is the federal government, and we're required to use it for public transparency, accountability, etc (a general officer who used to be aid to SECDEF Carter is currently in trouble over taking his to a certain "high class" establishment where the pretty ladies will dance on your lap).

But I'll take it up with POTUS the next time we do lunch.

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Well ok nevermind then, I know nothing of how the Feds handle this, I've heard the horror stories though of private employers going under and Amex going after the employees for unpaid accounts

EMNofSeattle said:

Well ok nevermind then, I know nothing of how the Feds handle this, I've heard the horror stories though of private employers going under and Amex going after the employees for unpaid accounts

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Oh, we are absolutely on the hook if the government is slow in reimbursing us and the card (which they require that you use). I keep a little extra in the emergency fund for precisely that reason.

Gaius46 said:

Agreed. I finally broke down and got a credit card a few years ago, after being without one for at least 10 years, only because renting a car on a debit card is hugely inconvenient. Otherwise it's the debit card for pretty much everything.

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Get a credit card that gets you miles or hotel points, etc. Use the hell out of it, and pay it off with your checking account as soon as it posts....same as a debit card..plus 4 days.

beefheart said:

That is no way to manage your money. I pay back everything early because I only buy what I can afford. Get a mortgage, pay it early, get a car loan, pay it off early. Never overdraw on your accounts and pay off things.

Paying off too much interest? I haven't paid interest on a credit card in 10 years! I have paid 25 years of my mortgage off in 7.5 years, I have eliminated tens of thousands of dollars of interest. You don't understand credit or loans, you clearly don't.

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I understand it just fine, that's why I opt out.

You're the one person who can beat Visa and Amex at their game, that's well and good, if everyone who had one used them like you wouldn't be getting all those freebies, they're paid for by interest your fellow workers pay for being short sided. Note how they don't offer all those rewards on your debit card or checkbook

A guy working the gun counter at cabelas claimed he got free guns because he was putting his rent payments on the cabelas visa, paying them off a week later and collecting points, congrats to him. So he is one of thousands of people beating the bank. If everyone beat the bank there would not be a bank

Gaius46 said:

Why conservative? I'm 55 and still investing my 401K funds fairly aggressively.

I read an article in the NY Times recently where the author, a money manager, suggested that even for people nearing retirement, conservative investing no longer makes since lifespans have increased so much. If you're going to have to live on your 401 for 20 or 30 years he contended it makes no sense to be conservative because you still have a long investment timeline. His argument made sense to me.

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While I'm a few decades away from having to make that math work, when I do long-term calculations, I usually figure that, whatever the account is at the end of December, I'll take 5% of that, and split it into monthly allotments for myself, and let a sort of reverse-dollar-cost-averaging effect take place, where I keep everything invested, and continue to grow over time. I'm willing for my retirement income to fluctuate a bit to have more on the tail-end of that period, when I figure I'll be most expensive.

beefheart said:

That is no way to manage your money. I pay back everything early because I only buy what I can afford. Get a mortgage, pay it early, get a car loan, pay it off early. Never overdraw on your accounts and pay off things.

Paying off too much interest? I haven't paid interest on a credit card in 10 years! I have paid 25 years of my mortgage off in 7.5 years, I have eliminated tens of thousands of dollars of interest. You don't understand credit or loans, you clearly don't.

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Why get a car loan at all? I've bought several cars, all with cash. Wholeheartedly agree on paying a mortgage off early (my intent is to get out from under a house in less than a decade from when I get the loan), but I don't see how, with your good habits, you need to borrow money for a car.

beefheart said:

Get a credit card that gets you miles or hotel points, etc. Use the hell out of it, and pay it off with your checking account as soon as it posts....same as a debit card..plus 4 days.

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Eh, my problem there is that all the research points to the argument that people who use plastic end up spending more than those who pay cash.

EMNofSeattle said:

I understand it just fine, that's why I opt out.

You're the one person who can beat Visa and Amex at their game, that's well and good, if everyone who had one used them like you wouldn't be getting all those freebies, they're paid for by interest your fellow workers pay for being short sided. Note how they don't offer all those rewards on your debit card or checkbook

A guy working the gun counter at cabelas claimed he got free guns because he was putting his rent payments on the cabelas visa, paying them off a week later and collecting points, congrats to him. So he is one of thousands of people beating the bank. If everyone beat the bank there would not be a bank

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Its easy...if you only buy what you need and can afford. You must build a credit score, or you will be punished by not having one. Get a Sears card for chrissakes...anything...build credit, if you ever buy a house...you will be thankful.

cpwill said:

Eh, my problem there is that all the research points to the argument that people who use plastic end up spending more than those who pay cash.

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Not me. I find the places to eat that give me 6X miles, plus my work trips, and the miles add up. I pay my credit card off like it was debit. There is no difference other than remembering to go online and pay it off when it clears.

cpwill said:

Why get a car loan at all? I've bought several cars, all with cash. Wholeheartedly agree on paying a mortgage off early (my intent is to get out from under a house in less than a decade from when I get the loan), but I don't see how, with your good habits, you need to borrow money for a car.

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Last car I bought was 9 years ago, I still have it, took out a 3 yr loan plus cash. Finished the loan in a year.

Now that I work from home, it doesn't get a ton of miles on it..and its a Scion..its built to last forever. I'm on track for paying off mortgage by next Dec or Jan...I took a bit of a holiday on it this month and next month, because I'm going on vacation next month, air fair and 2 of three hotels paid off, plus transport, one hotel only takes cash....LOL

beefheart said:

Its easy...if you only buy what you need and can afford. You must build a credit score, or you will be punished by not having one. Get a Sears card for chrissakes...anything...build credit, if you ever buy a house...you will be thankful.

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Well I'll just find a lady with a decent FICO score and shack up with her, problem solved on the house

There is nothing in my life I've needed one for, I drive a 99 crown Victoria, a very inexpensive and practical car, use a prepaid cell phone, live in a 300 sq foot studio cottage with included utilities (although it is on the beach) and eat out twice a week. One of which my grandfather pays for. So my money is in good shape and I do not need a FICO score.

cpwill said:

Well golly gee, maybe we shouldn't take out a bunch of stupid debt for a five-year-wander through General Studies.

Millennials don't have a lot higher expenses. The cost of living relative to inflation has gone down - only the rising quality of goods and new items in the basket bouy up the estimated price. We choose higher expenses. No one made us buy the latest iPhone, or a car we couldn't afford, or a useless Degree because we totes loved college but didn't know what wanted to be when (if) we grew up. We signed up for that stuff.

I'm a millenial currently working on my fourth degree, all of them with zero debt. My dad was a small town Methodist Minister who paid for all of two semesters, and the rest was on me.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

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To the bolded.

Well, yes & no.

The basket has gotten bigger as you say, but it would be very difficult for a young person (or pretty much anyone) to effective function without a computer, cell-phone, or internet connectivity. Hell, if we go in reverse we can say the previous generations often made do without a landline phone - some even without electricity (or an indoor washroom!).

So as society becomes more technologically advanced we are somewhat forced to move with it as individuals in order to remain functional & effectual. For example, my boy's High School required every kid to have a iPad, to say nothing of the already obligatory computer and internet connectivity.

I don't have figures handy, but I highly suspect housing is a much higher expenditure in proportion to income for young people today. I see it with my twenty-something on-her-own kid. This applies to both renting and owning, except that now (in my city) renting is more expensive than a mortgage for a similar property. Mortgages are at very low interest rates, but the houses are still pretty high and the banks today pretty much insist on 20% down. That 20% is a tough nut for the average just-getting-started kid.

And while I can't prove it, food in both raw & prepared forms seems to be getting a bit high in proportion to income, as well.

Now goods & merchandise are very reasonable - thanks to China, and sadly those relatively higher priced American workers who are no longer manufacture anything, and have paid a severe price for the effects of the globalization that allows the rest of us to have those cheap goods.

Gaius46 said:

Why conservative? I'm 55 and still investing my 401K funds fairly aggressively.

I read an article in the NY Times recently where the author, a money manager, suggested that even for people nearing retirement, conservative investing no longer makes sense since lifespans have increased so much. If you're going to have to live on your 401K for 20 or 30 years he contended it makes no sense to be conservative because you still have a long investment timeline. His argument made sense to me.

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I'm 52, and still pretty aggressive, my work 401(k) is doing pretty good, much better than my Roth and former 401(k), but I am earning dividends quarterly which go back into the fund in more shares. God only knows what Social Security I'll get.

beefheart said:

Not me. I find the places to eat that give me 6X miles, plus my work trips, and the miles add up. I pay my credit card off like it was debit. There is no difference other than remembering to go online and pay it off when it clears.

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Even debit you spent more, studies consistently show people pay more at restaurants and stores with debit or credit cards, because cash spending has a higher emotional register then swiping plastic, swipers look for less deals and order more stuff is the theory