America Is Not the Greatest Country on Earth. It’s No. 28

life expectancy men 79.3 women 81.6 cum69.1 this is the kind of crap you see online. they must not proof read their idiocy

DA60 said:

Thoughts?

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"Health Care" is not the end-all-be-all indicator of how "great" a country is.

Norway's government practically rapes their citizens in taxation. Same as Sweden. You want a TV in your house? Pay taxes on it. You want a tennis court in your park? You pay taxes (and for court time). Norway pays their citizens much worse that the U.S. does. All grocery stores in Scandinavia are of poor quality, and do a poor job of food management. Scandinavian governments are notorious for banning things they (the government) deem harmful or inappropriate to the plebes. Health care in these countries is actually hit-or-miss. If you're critically in need of medical assistance...yes, it's good. If it's a simple visit to the doctor...that's almost impossible, unless you're willing to wait 8 months to get in.

There is MUCH more opportunity for personal success in the United States as in any other country. Unfortunately, we're moving away from personal success, in favor of civil servitude to an overbearing government. We've gone from "I want to be rich when I grow up" to "I want to be dependent on my government!"

F-that. Go move there if you hate the U.S. this much. Oh...by the way...in the U.S. you still have the freedom to move to other 2nd world countries that totally suck (but hey! We'll keep you alive!).

joG said:

That is rather weak on economics.

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No, it is more like a summary of events during the time period you have raised. More millions have been raised out of poverty by China in recent years than at any time in history. It has done this in a very different fashion than the "American approach"- setting economic goals by a top-down, authoritarian regime, manipulating its currency to encourage exports, by not allowing people to buy anything they want, but indeed by holding down wages and redirecting wealth into designated areas, in order to industrialize and set the stage for a middle class emergence.

The other so called Asian Tigers also followed their own logic, and raised tariffs and protected target industries in order to reep long term gain. State and industry were considered partners, and a hands off approach to a free market was never in the cards.

It's no surprise really, because the US did the same things during its formative years. It is only today that ideas like unrestricted flows of capital, deregulation, and unrestricted markets are promoted strongly as the correct way, and that is because they have favored the stronger economy, or at least a fortunate few within those economies.

The US is falling behind today because of a handful at the apex of economic and political power who want to peddle a bag of right wing nonsense, one that secures their wealth in an admirable fashion, but gives the masses the sort of survey results that are quoted here in the OP.

DA60 said:

'Every study ranking nations by health or living standards invariably offers Scandinavian social democracies a chance to show their quiet dominance. A new analysis published this week—perhaps the most comprehensive ever—is no different. But what it does reveal are the broad shortcomings of sustainable development efforts, the new shorthand for not killing ourselves or the planet, as well as the specific afflictions of a certain North American country.
Iceland and Sweden share the top slot with Singapore as world leaders when it comes to health goals set by the United Nations, according to a report published in the Lancet. Using the UN’s sustainable development goals as guideposts, which measure the obvious (poverty, clean water, education) and less obvious (societal inequality, industry innovation), more than 1,870 researchers in 124 countries compiled data on 33 different indicators of progress toward the UN goals related to health.
The massive study emerged from a decade long collaboration focused on the worldwide distribution of disease. About a year and a half ago, the researchers involved decided their data might help measure progress on what may be the single most ambitious undertaking humans have ever committed themselves to: survival. In doing so, they came up with some disturbing findings, including that the country with the biggest economy (not to mention, if we’re talking about health, multibillion-dollar health-food and fitness industries) ranks No. 28 overall, between Japan and Estonia.'

America Is Not the Greatest Country on Earth. Itâ€[emoji769]s No. 28 - Bloomberg


Thoughts?

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I call BS on these lists. America is great. Don't like it? Don't come here. You think another county is great? Go there. It is a personal thing. Not something you can quantify.


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Tanngrisnir said:

Which, again, is utterly irrelevant to the rankings and how they were determined.

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No, I'd say it's pretty relevant. Countries don't get where they are by magic.

Ganesh said:

The US is falling behind today because of a handful at the apex of economic and political power who want to peddle a bag of right wing nonsense, one that secures their wealth in an admirable fashion, but gives the masses the sort of survey results that are quoted here in the OP.

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What the hell is that bag of right wing nonsense? Do you even know? If so, please, do tell.

Tigerace117 said:

No, I'd say it's pretty relevant. Countries don't get where they are by magic.

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No, it's not relevant. It's about how the country measures up NOW. Not what it did 70 years ago.

Otherwise the Greeks and Romans and Imperial Japansese would be able to claim points for the exact same thing you're referencing.

Tanngrisnir said:

No, it's not relevant. It's about how the country measures up NOW. Not what it did 70 years ago.

Otherwise the Greeks and Romans and Imperial Japansese would be able to claim points for the exact same thing you're referencing.

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I was unaware the Roman Empire still existed. However, people do give Greece and Rome props for their role in the development of western civilization, so.....

legalimmigrant said:

What the hell is that bag of right wing nonsense? Do you even know? If so, please, do tell.

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You would have had a good starting point by reading my post, but if that is too tedious, I'll supply a further outline.

1) Free markets are basically self-regulating. Not perfect, no, but work well without supervision, and are the best system we have.

Free markets are not self-regulating, in any significant way that is relevant to macroeconomics, they only work within a public policy framework, and are demonstrably not the ideal system for economic organization, but rather a blend of public policy and limited market freedom has proved historically to be much more functional.

2) It is a good idea to see wealth distributed upwards, to the most affluent, because they are the job creators, and the entrepreneurs that really create wealth in society.

It is a bad idea to skew incomes in any such fashion. The most successful societies in the past and today are those that promote a large middle class. Jobs are not necessarily created by the wealthy, or entrepreneurs, or businessmen. In fact today it is more profitable to eliminate jobs through automation, or allow only low paid service jobs in very many aspects of our society today, due to prevailing economic and technological trends. There are actually few in the rentier class that have much or any incentive to create jobs on any scale that would be significant to US society today.

Upwards distribution of wealth in fact has many negatives, as we have seen. Idle and excess capital, tends to, like errant teens, find trouble to get into if more positive outlets for it cannot be found. That is why we have seen so many financial bubbles in recent years. Lots of money sloshing around, looking for a home.

3) Government is like a business. It should balance the books, not overspend, and show a good bottom line.

Government is most demonstrably not a business. Sovereign governments make laws, and create money, which sets them apart from the business world. Government's role is to be a referee, to try and create an equitable society, and doing this may mean injecting any amount of funds into society if it is deemed necessary ( and removing them also if and when appropriate)

4) Anyone can get a good job, and get rich if they want, if not they are just lazy hippies and layabouts.

Our economy is undergoing vast change, and already we are at a point where all citizens are simply not needed in the workforce, at least not in any meaningful way. That is why work is forever being downgraded to WalMart or other McJobs, or at the top end becoming ever more competitive. It is becoming nearly impossible for young people to obtain the professional career they may desire, and this trend will accelerate in the future. This will take a sea change in thinking to deal with.

Just off the top of my head, those are a few items from the basket of nonsense in question, and the reasons why they are nonsense. There is a longer list, but by now I'm sure you are wiping the spittle off your chin, and pounding the keyboard with an uber-right rebuttal. Pound away.

what country has the most people trying to enter it and remain? that will be your answer as to what is the best country in the world

Tigerace117 said:

Wow indeed. For all the whining about America, without us none of those countries would have gotten to where they are today.

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You may attempt to dine out forever on America's actions in WW2, but one can project that your meals will become ever more frugal. I'm sure, given the education system today, that there are many young people who do not know what or who WW2 is.

And those actions really are not in question in regard to the OP about economic systems today. In fact, it may surprise you to learn that at the very time the US was fighting hard for freedom in those days, they had a government that was leftist enough that it would be considered little less than communism by today's ultra-right ideologues.

If you think you have given a gift to these places, look at it this way- they are now giving you a gift, that is, if you have the marbles to see it.

legalimmigrant said:

Hillary, on the other hand, as brilliant as she always is, says that we will be "stronger together", we being us and all the sick scum invading the US from the south, carrying with them TB and a dozen other diseases, eradicated here long time ago.

To make that happen, she wants bridges, not walls. She even plans on the first day of her reign to remove the fence from the White House, fire all those mean guards with guns - you know, guns kill - and invite the TB-infected migrant children to live with her.

I think I will vote for her.

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I feel sorry that you can only see the bad in people.

I'd say this is one of the best indicators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

We've also given so much in blood and money to conflicts around the world with our huge military whether it's appreciated or not, as well as excellent science, arts, and entertainment contributions as well. So your country may have nicer creature comforts and fringe benefits, but I'll bet we sleep better at night.

Ganesh said:

You may attempt to dine out forever on America's actions in WW2, but one can project that your meals will become ever more frugal. I'm sure, given the education system today, that there are many young people who do not know what or who WW2 is.

And those actions really are not in question in regard to the OP about economic systems today. In fact, it may surprise you to learn that at the very time the US was fighting hard for freedom in those days, they had a government that was leftist enough that it would be considered little less than communism by today's ultra-right ideologues.

If you think you have given a gift to these places, look at it this way- they are now giving you a gift, that is, if you have the marbles to see it.

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Yeah....no. I know the whole "the education system is in the toilet" stereotype is all the rage, but plenty of people know what World War Two is.

And as for a gift.......

JC Callender said:

I'd say this is one of the best indicators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

We've also given so much in blood and money to conflicts around the world with our huge military whether it's appreciated or not, as well as excellent science, arts, and entertainment contributions as well. So your country may have nicer creature comforts and fringe benefits, but I'll bet we sleep better at night.

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but on a per capita basis, the US is not one of the largest aid donors in the world. Japan and Scandinavia usually take top billing, but there are also others.

Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002

As for conflicts around the world, ask the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who have, or have had their parents bombed to rubble for a dubious imperial enterprise, or those in Panama or Grenada killed for a grandstanding display by the demented movie actor, the Lebanese civilians killed as the same persona urged impotent and enraged shelling of the hinterland about Beirut in retaliation for a terror attack, or the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed or maimed for yet another imperial adventure, the thousands who have died as collateral damage in drone strikes, or any of the multitude of others afflicted by skewed or misguided geopolitical meanderings. See what they have to say.

I'm not even going to touch excellence in the arts. If you think that Dumb and Dumber, or the Flintstones movie is excellence, there is not much hope for you.

Tigerace117 said:

Whelp, without us;

Iceland would probably be, at best, a floating airstrip for Nazi Germany

Singapore would be part of the tender embraces of the Japanese Empire

Sweden would be a Nazi or Soviet puppet

Andorra would have been annexed

The U.K. would have been starved into submission

Finland would have been caught between the Nazis and the Soviets for practically the rest of eternity, or at least until they both collapsed

Spain would still likely be Falangist

The Netherlands would be part of the Third Reich

Canada would be scared ****less

Australia would be even more scared ****less

Norway would be German occupied

Luxembourg wouldn't exist

Ireland would probably have drifted into the German camp

Malta would have bombed off the face of the earth

Germany would still be "Sieg Heil"-ing up and down half of Europe

Denmark would be occupied

Cyprus likely would have gone to hell in a hand basket even more than it already did.

Belgium would be German occupied

Switzerland would probably have been dismembered

Il Duce's successors would still be running Italy

Brunei would be Japanese

Portugal would either be part of Spain or still under the Estado Novo

Israel wouldn't exist

France would still be run from Vichy

Slovenia wouldn't exist

Greece would be occupied

Japan would still be fascist.

So....

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Yeah but you can get free college education in Europe and free healthcare in Cuba.

Priorities. America has been ensuring the security of the free worlds goodies at the expense of Americans not getting those free goodies.

Ganesh said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but on a per capita basis, the US is not one of the largest aid donors in the world. Japan and Scandinavia usually take top billing, but there are also others.

Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002

As for conflicts around the world, ask the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who have, or have had their parents bombed to rubble for a dubious imperial enterprise, or those in Panama or Grenada killed for a grandstanding display by the demented movie actor, the Lebanese civilians killed as the same persona urged impotent and enraged shelling of the hinterland about Beirut in retaliation for a terror attack, or the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed or maimed for yet another imperial adventure, the thousands who have died as collateral damage in drone strikes, or any of the multitude of others afflicted by skewed or misguided geopolitical meanderings. See what they have to say.

I'm not even going to touch excellence in the arts. If you think that Dumb and Dumber, or the Flintstones movie is excellence, there is not much hope for you.

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Actually, I'll just ask the Communists instead.

Oh, and... Forbes Welcome

The 30 greatest countries in the world according to this list are divided as follows: 22 are European, 4 are European in origin and majority (U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand), 3 are Asian and 1 is Middle Eastern (Israel).

Glaringly, all 30 are market economies. Comparing this list to the Index of Economic Freedom published by Heritage Foundation indicates the degree to which economic freedom correlates with national success and prosperity. In 2016 Singapore was ranked as the second most economically free nation in the world (behind Hong Kong), mirroring its placing in the report featured in this Bloomberg article. Both Australia and Canada feature in the top 10 of both lists. In fact, the only outlier when comparing both is Greece.

JC Callender said:

Actually, I'll just ask the Communists instead.

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Good idea. America's largest trading partner, and project to be the largest economy in the world in the next couple of decades, is a communist nation. Ask those folks about the value of various military assaults against them.

Ganesh said:

Good idea. America's largest trading partner, and project to be the largest economy in the world in the next couple of decades, is a communist nation. Ask those folks about the value of various military assaults against them.

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Is China a military threat to us? And are they much more of a Capitalist economy than they were back in the 60's and 70's? If not, why respond with this post?

Ganesh said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but on a per capita basis, the US is not one of the largest aid donors in the world. Japan and Scandinavia usually take top billing, but there are also others.

Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002

As for conflicts around the world, ask the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who have, or have had their parents bombed to rubble for a dubious imperial enterprise, or those in Panama or Grenada killed for a grandstanding display by the demented movie actor, the Lebanese civilians killed as the same persona urged impotent and enraged shelling of the hinterland about Beirut in retaliation for a terror attack, or the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed or maimed for yet another imperial adventure, the thousands who have died as collateral damage in drone strikes, or any of the multitude of others afflicted by skewed or misguided geopolitical meanderings. See what they have to say.

I'm not even going to touch excellence in the arts. If you think that Dumb and Dumber, or the Flintstones movie is excellence, there is not much hope for you.

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You mean the Laotians and Cambodians who were only bombed because the North Vietnamese were violating their territory and using them as shields? Those Laotians and Cambodians?

Then again, Khmer Rouge apologists apparently exist....

americanwoman said:

Interesting how instead of facing our flaws and the fact that we need to really work on them, some people deflect big time by putting down the other countries or just blowing it off completely. No wonder we're at where we're at and probably won't be going up anytime soon.

My comment would be to use those countries as an example to see what's working so good for them and learn from it.

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One would think that. Any sensible person would.

Americans love to call America the greatest country on earth, even though it isn't anymore.

Granted, the comparisons to small Scandinavian countries aren't entirely apt considering their responsibilities vs. ours. Their populations vs. ours, etc.

But they do some things really well that the U.S. would do well to copy. The problem for so many is that they'd rather watch America regress than admit that other people around the world actually have done some pretty good things with their societies.

Other nations used to copy the U.S. way of doing things but then adapted and changed as they saw ways to improve upon it. We haven't changed enough.

Tigerace117 said:

Wow indeed. For all the whining about America, without us none of those countries would have gotten to where they are today.

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Just an FYI: it isn't 1946 any more.

Ganesh said:

No, it is more like a summary of events during the time period you have raised. More millions have been raised out of poverty by China in recent years than at any time in history. It has done this in a very different fashion than the "American approach"- setting economic goals by a top-down, authoritarian regime, manipulating its currency to encourage exports, by not allowing people to buy anything they want, but indeed by holding down wages and redirecting wealth into designated areas, in order to industrialize and set the stage for a middle class emergence.

The other so called Asian Tigers also followed their own logic, and raised tariffs and protected target industries in order to reep long term gain. State and industry were considered partners, and a hands off approach to a free market was never in the cards.

It's no surprise really, because the US did the same things during its formative years. It is only today that ideas like unrestricted flows of capital, deregulation, and unrestricted markets are promoted strongly as the correct way, and that is because they have favored the stronger economy, or at least a fortunate few within those economies.

The US is falling behind today because of a handful at the apex of economic and political power who want to peddle a bag of right wing nonsense, one that secures their wealth in an admirable fashion, but gives the masses the sort of survey results that are quoted here in the OP.

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People hung up on right-wing / left-wing are out of touch. Only bottom rung peons with little influence still see things left/right. It's bigger than that.

The real enemy is the ultra wealthy class who have set up a nice self enriching pay to play system where politics is bought by those who can afford it.

Hate to break it to you. but more people who have left-wing ideologies can afford to buy political favors. The same ones pushing Globalism.

Opopanax said:

Just an FYI: it isn't 1946 any more.

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Yep. Back in 1946 most of those countries were still in ruins and only got back up on their feet thanks to the Marshall Plan--- in other words, thanks to the US