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Could the Tulsa shooting have been an accident?

I haven't been watching the talking heads on TV or reading many of the threads here on it so forgive me if this has been covered. So in watching the videos of the Tulsa incident something jumps out at me. Only one shot was fired. Isn't this unusual for a police use of deadly force? Usually they all keep shooting until the suspect is down, and sometimes even after that. But that isn't what happened here. Lots of cops and one single shot fired. It feels more like an accidental discharge. What are the odds that is the case and in the heat of the moment she, and perhaps others, lied to cover up her negligence?

The problem isn't with her - it's with the ever-deepening vicious circle between the police and the blacks. Somebody from group A kills someone from group B, and so group B feels that group A is out to get them and gets trigger happy. So sooner or later somebody from group B kills someone from group A, and so group A feels that group B is out to get them and gets trigger happy.

Two things are needed: (1) for both sides to try to break the vicious cycle - it can't be done by just one side - which would include increased training and supervision by and of police to try to minimize the culture of "we gotta pull out our guns and be ready to shoot every time we approach someone who's black", and (2) effective gun control, including background checks of ALL gun sales and registration of ALL firearms...which measures are what are absolutely necessary to decrease the amount of easily-obtained smuggled guns on the street.

If both of those two things are not done, then things are not going to get better anytime soon.
 
The problem isn't with her - it's with the ever-deepening vicious circle between the police and the blacks. Somebody from group A kills someone from group B, and so group B feels that group A is out to get them and gets trigger happy. So sooner or later somebody from group B kills someone from group A, and so group A feels that group B is out to get them and gets trigger happy.

Two things are needed: (1) for both sides to try to break the vicious cycle - it can't be done by just one side - which would include increased training and supervision by and of police to try to minimize the culture of "we gotta pull out our guns and be ready to shoot every time we approach someone who's black", and (2) effective gun control, including background checks of ALL gun sales and registration of ALL firearms...which measures are what are absolutely necessary to decrease the amount of easily-obtained smuggled guns on the street.

If both of those two things are not done, then things are not going to get better anytime soon.

Would you include asking blacks to stop resisting arrest and disrespecting the police as a viable option?
 
Would you include asking blacks to stop resisting arrest and disrespecting the police as a viable option?

If you'd check, a lot of black leaders - up to and including President Obama - have been doing precisely that. From an article written by a black woman:

Such is the burden of black parenting. Being a black parent, especially of a black boy, comes with the added onus of having to protect your child from a country that is out to get him—a country that kills someone that looks like him every 28 hours, a country that will likely imprison him by his mid-thirties if he doesn't get his high school diploma, a country that is more than twice as likely to suspend him from school than a white classmate.

This fear has fueled a generational need for a portentous, culturally compulsory lecture that warns young black men about the inherent strikes against them, about the society that is built to bring them down. It is a harbinger of the inevitable, a wishful attempt at exceptionalism, passed down like an heirloom.

Every black male I've ever met has had this talk, and it's likely that I'll have to give it one day too. There are so many things I need to tell my future son, already, before I've birthed him; so many innocuous, trite thoughts that may not make a single difference. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't try to break up a fight. Don't talk back to cops. Don't ask for help. But they're all variations of a single theme: Don't give them an excuse to kill you.


But then the blacks who've heard this talk see the news, the video showing yet another unarmed black man or woman being killed by police...and all too often, the video shows that the police tried to lie their way out of it. Do I really need to show you examples of police trying to lie their way out of a wrongful killing?

One only earns trust by first GIVING trust. Just as blacks need to trust police to do their jobs properly, the police also need to trust the blacks to not be pulling out a gun if one hand is even just temporarily out of view. The police - as hard and as dangerous as their jobs certainly are (and as heartbreaking as their experiences often are) - need to stop assuming that their guns must be their first resort. It's doggone hard to tell a policeman that when it's his or her life on the line...but that's what it will take.
 
Judging solely from the sound of her voice and her later comments, I think she panicked.
 
If you'd check, a lot of black leaders - up to and including President Obama - have been doing precisely that. From an article written by a black woman:

Such is the burden of black parenting. Being a black parent, especially of a black boy, comes with the added onus of having to protect your child from a country that is out to get him—a country that kills someone that looks like him every 28 hours, a country that will likely imprison him by his mid-thirties if he doesn't get his high school diploma, a country that is more than twice as likely to suspend him from school than a white classmate.

This fear has fueled a generational need for a portentous, culturally compulsory lecture that warns young black men about the inherent strikes against them, about the society that is built to bring them down. It is a harbinger of the inevitable, a wishful attempt at exceptionalism, passed down like an heirloom.

Every black male I've ever met has had this talk, and it's likely that I'll have to give it one day too. There are so many things I need to tell my future son, already, before I've birthed him; so many innocuous, trite thoughts that may not make a single difference. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't try to break up a fight. Don't talk back to cops. Don't ask for help. But they're all variations of a single theme: Don't give them an excuse to kill you.


But then the blacks who've heard this talk see the news, the video showing yet another unarmed black man or woman being killed by police...and all too often, the video shows that the police tried to lie their way out of it. Do I really need to show you examples of police trying to lie their way out of a wrongful killing?

One only earns trust by first GIVING trust. Just as blacks need to trust police to do their jobs properly, the police also need to trust the blacks to not be pulling out a gun if one hand is even just temporarily out of view. The police - as hard and as dangerous as their jobs certainly are (and as heartbreaking as their experiences often are) - need to stop assuming that their guns must be their first resort. It's doggone hard to tell a policeman that when it's his or her life on the line...but that's what it will take.
There have been 706 police shootings in 2016. 173 armed black people were shot by cops. 41 unarmed people were shot by cops, 15 of them were black. 36 of the 41 unarmed individuals that were shot by cops were attacking the cops or resisting arrest.

Considering there are approx 6 million civilian to law enforcement contacts annually, thats actually a pretty good success rate. Those that die may well be tragic...but they are usually responsible for their own actions and choices.
 
There have been 706 police shootings in 2016. 173 armed black people were shot by cops. 41 unarmed people were shot by cops, 15 of them were black. 36 of the 41 unarmed individuals that were shot by cops were attacking the cops or resisting arrest.

Considering there are approx 6 million civilian to law enforcement contacts annually, thats actually a pretty good success rate. Those that die may well be tragic...but they are usually responsible for their own actions and choices.

Compare that to how many people are killed by cops in other first-world democracies - including the ones with significantly-higher Muslim populations - and then get back to me.
 
Compare that to how many people are killed by cops in other first-world democracies - including the ones with significantly-higher Muslim populations - and then get back to me.
Do they have comparable populations? Do they have the gang problems we have? And why do you have to run and hide across the planet? Why cant you simply address the facts? The FACT is that of the 706 fatal shootings involving law enforcement, all but 41...FORTY ONE...involve perpetrators with actual weapons. Of the 41 incidents involving unarmed citizens, 36 are either attempting to flee in vehicles or resisting arrest. Why do facts cause you to run and hide?
 
Do they have comparable populations? Do they have the gang problems we have? And why do you have to run and hide across the planet? Why cant you simply address the facts? The FACT is that of the 706 fatal shootings involving law enforcement, all but 41...FORTY ONE...involve perpetrators with actual weapons. Of the 41 incidents involving unarmed citizens, 36 are either attempting to flee in vehicles or resisting arrest. Why do facts cause you to run and hide?

Do ANY of the other first-world democracies have populations that are either more or less human than our own?

That's the first thing that you'd do well to learn - that people are people are people ALL OVER THE PLANET...and that while governments and religions may be wildly different, people are all the same in that they all have the bell-curve range of wants and needs and desires and problems and issues.

THAT, sir, is why I asked you to respond with comparisons to other first-world democracies - because their governments are not really that different from our own, their levels of personal freedom are not that different from our own, and the people in those nations are just as human as ours are in every way.

And that is why it's a great honking mistake to claim (as I've seen conservatives do SO many times) that "whatever those other nations do, it don't count here 'cause they ain't 'Merica!"
 
:shrug: I don't know, man. Deliberate doesn't mean "premeditated murder", it means "deliberate action taken by someone making decisions". If she was as scared of the gun as she was of him, then one shot would make sense, but in that case, she has no business being a cop.

I would qualify her shooting out of fear as being panicked. And who wouldn't be scared of someone shooting at them?

Her taking a shot deliberately would mean she had a reason. I don't think she did. I think it was a shot because she didn't know what to do. I wonder if she had had her weapon drawn on a non compliant suspect before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Do ANY of the other first-world democracies have populations that are either more or less human than our own?

That's the first thing that you'd do well to learn - that people are people are people ALL OVER THE PLANET...and that while governments and religions may be wildly different, people are all the same in that they all have the bell-curve range of wants and needs and desires and problems and issues.

THAT, sir, is why I asked you to respond with comparisons to other first-world democracies - because their governments are not really that different from our own, their levels of personal freedom are not that different from our own, and the people in those nations are just as human as ours are in every way.

And that is why it's a great honking mistake to claim (as I've seen conservatives do SO many times) that "whatever those other nations do, it don't count here 'cause they ain't 'Merica!"
Do those first world democracies have armed perpetrators that are actively resisting arrest? that IS the comparison you are trying to make, right? In order for your pathetic diversion to work, you have to have a similar number of armed thugs threatening cops and then you have to have magical snake charming cops disarming and arresting those thugs without a shot being fired.

Right? I mean...otherwise your argument is idiotic. Right?
 
If you'd check, a lot of black leaders - up to and including President Obama - have been doing precisely that. From an article written by a black woman:

Such is the burden of black parenting. Being a black parent, especially of a black boy, comes with the added onus of having to protect your child from a country that is out to get him—a country that kills someone that looks like him every 28 hours, a country that will likely imprison him by his mid-thirties if he doesn't get his high school diploma, a country that is more than twice as likely to suspend him from school than a white classmate.

This fear has fueled a generational need for a portentous, culturally compulsory lecture that warns young black men about the inherent strikes against them, about the society that is built to bring them down. It is a harbinger of the inevitable, a wishful attempt at exceptionalism, passed down like an heirloom.

Every black male I've ever met has had this talk, and it's likely that I'll have to give it one day too. There are so many things I need to tell my future son, already, before I've birthed him; so many innocuous, trite thoughts that may not make a single difference. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't try to break up a fight. Don't talk back to cops. Don't ask for help. But they're all variations of a single theme: Don't give them an excuse to kill you.


But then the blacks who've heard this talk see the news, the video showing yet another unarmed black man or woman being killed by police...and all too often, the video shows that the police tried to lie their way out of it. Do I really need to show you examples of police trying to lie their way out of a wrongful killing?

One only earns trust by first GIVING trust. Just as blacks need to trust police to do their jobs properly, the police also need to trust the blacks to not be pulling out a gun if one hand is even just temporarily out of view. The police - as hard and as dangerous as their jobs certainly are (and as heartbreaking as their experiences often are) - need to stop assuming that their guns must be their first resort. It's doggone hard to tell a policeman that when it's his or her life on the line...but that's what it will take.

They're getting killed by members of their own community overwhelmingly more than anyone else, so in that case you should change "country" to "neighborhood". Secondly, they go to jail and get suspended from school because they're breaking rules, do you disagree? Almost all of these police shootings begin with non compliance. You have to stop assuming that inner city blacks are blameless.

You believe that it's systematic racism that's keeping blacks down, but it's our system of laws that so many seem to disregard that get them into trouble, and it's really as simple as that.
 
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