• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Accusations of Treason

LowDown

Curmudgeon
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,768
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

Is it true that anti-Islamic, or insufficiently pro-Islamic, rhetoric from American politicians encourages terrorism? The big picture gives plenty of reasons to doubt it. Such rhetoric was not a major feature of U.S. politics during Bill Clinton’s time in the White House, and that didn’t stop Islamic terrorists from attacking the World Trade Center, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and the USS Cole, among others.

...The only message [Hillary and her allies] are delivering to Americans is the message intended for the enemy, or for the population from which the enemy draws recruits. Consider Mrs. Clinton’s assertion that “Muslims . . . have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.” One can imagine—although we are skeptical—that that’s a useful thing to say for the purpose of propaganda aimed at demoralizing terrorists and appealing to nonterrorist Muslims. But from the standpoint of an American voter who takes the statement at face value, it is flatly false—a bold-faced lie, really, since Mrs. Clinton obviously knows it is false.

By contrast, what Trump has to say on this subject is a rough approximation of the truth. We’re uneasy with the roughness, but too many in the political class fail to appreciate the importance of the truth.
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

No we are supposed to believe under Hillary the first amendment will be under attack.
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

Though I fully support a politician's right to say anything she wants, under normal conditions like now a politician is more or less unelectable, when the politician is loud, insulting and populist.
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

Everything she described is accurate.
 
Everything she described is accurate.

Nope, as the article illustrates, being nice to Muslims in general doesn't reduce the risk of terrorism. Trump's comments are not hurting foreign policy or helping ISIS.

What's depressing is that supposedly responsible and intelligent people are spouting this nonsense. It's just an index of how desperate they are getting as Trump gains in the polls.
 
Nope, as the article illustrates, being nice to Muslims in general doesn't reduce the risk of terrorism. Trump's comments are not hurting foreign policy or helping ISIS.

What's depressing is that supposedly responsible and intelligent people are spouting this nonsense. It's just an index of how desperate they are getting as Trump gains in the polls.

They fail to actually establish that.
 
So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!


I could be mistaken, but I could swear I've seen Hillary "accused" of treason by plenty of posters.
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

Trump's advertisements of bigotry antagonize the Muslim community, similar to the way that ISIS beheadings antagonize the west.

"...Since 2001, right wing extremists have claimed more victims in terror attacks than jihadists...

More likely Trump’s suggested program would do more to hurt national security than to strengthen it. Creating an anti-terrorism program specifically targeting “radical Islam” perpetuates an on-going narrative that the U.S. is at war with Islam, a religion practiced by more than a billion Muslims around the world.

This narrative is not helpful to the strength and security of the U.S. Language regarding this perceived campaign against Islam has been used by jihadi thought-leaders throughout history such as Islamic theorist Sayyid Qutb, American imam Anwar al-Awlaki and former al-Qaeda commander Osama bin Laden as a recruitment tool to sympathize otherwise peaceful Muslims to their violent cause."

Trump’s Radical Islam Commission Threatens National Security
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!


the idea that Trump represents a major party is absurd
 
Trump's advertisements of bigotry antagonize the Muslim community, similar to the way that ISIS beheadings antagonize the west.

"...Since 2001, right wing extremists have claimed more victims in terror attacks than jihadists...

More likely Trump’s suggested program would do more to hurt national security than to strengthen it. Creating an anti-terrorism program specifically targeting “radical Islam” perpetuates an on-going narrative that the U.S. is at war with Islam, a religion practiced by more than a billion Muslims around the world.

This narrative is not helpful to the strength and security of the U.S. Language regarding this perceived campaign against Islam has been used by jihadi thought-leaders throughout history such as Islamic theorist Sayyid Qutb, American imam Anwar al-Awlaki and former al-Qaeda commander Osama bin Laden as a recruitment tool to sympathize otherwise peaceful Muslims to their violent cause."

Trump’s Radical Islam Commission Threatens National Security

If the "peaceful" Muslims are offended by our opposition to the terrorist Muslims then they are part of the problem. Like it or not the free people of the Earth are in fact at War with Islam, because they are at war with us.
 
If the "peaceful" Muslims are offended by our opposition to the terrorist Muslims then they are part of the problem. Like it or not the free people of the Earth are in fact at War with Islam, because they are at war with us.

That's not a fair assessment. Like i said, right wing terrorism has been a bigger problem for us. Terrorism is so very far from unique to Islam.

Describing all 1.6 billion Muslims as our enemies pits them against us, it pressures more of them to join the ranks of fringe extremist groups like ISIS.

We have to be fair, otherwise people will recognize how we are not fair and that will build empathy for their cause.
 
We have Hillary accusing Trump of "giving aid and comfort to our adversaries" by being insufficiently pro-Islamic.

So a major-party nominee is leveling accusations of treason over political speech. And we’re supposed to believe the other guy is “abnormal”!

I wonder if you had this same kind of reaction when Trump proclaimed Obama founded ISIS...
 
That's not a fair assessment. Like i said, right wing terrorism has been a bigger problem for us. Terrorism is so very far from unique to Islam.

Describing all 1.6 billion Muslims as our enemies pits them against us, it pressures more of them to join the ranks of fringe extremist groups like ISIS.

We have to be fair, otherwise people will recognize how we are not fair and that will build empathy for their cause.

Right wing terrorism is not a bigger problem then jihad terrorism, that's absurd. Your sourcE's source shows twice as many people killed in Islam related events then right wing ones, that's before we even get to 9 11
 
Right wing terrorism is not a bigger problem then jihad terrorism, that's absurd. Your sourcE's source shows twice as many people killed in Islam related events then right wing ones, that's before we even get to 9 11

Hold on now, i was more specific than that- i said that right wing terrorism is a bigger problem for us. Worldwide, i can certainly see the merit of your first sentence, but that's a different scope.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam. Making enemies of anyone who is Muslim is a bad idea. Broad brushing all of Islam is religion-based prejudice. I don't think we have anything to gain by attacking the religion.
 
Hold on now, i was more specific than that- i said that right wing terrorism is a bigger problem for us. Worldwide, i can certainly see the merit of your first sentence, but that's a different scope.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam. Making enemies of anyone who is Muslim is a bad idea. Broad brushing all of Islam is religion-based prejudice. I don't think we have anything to gain by attacking the religion.

I went by your link, your Link contained another link to their numbers, where they class mass casualty events by number of fatalities and whether it was Islam or RW politics motivated excluding 9/11 in the United States it shows 49 dead of RW inspired incidents and 98 of Islam inspired ones. In this country alone. Your source numbers do not back up the contention.

As far as the straw man argument that opposition to Islamic terror constitutes hatred of Islam or all 1.2 billion Moslems on earth is an oft repeated one, but it is false. However there are serious structural problems present in Islam, I can't think of a single non Islamic country where women can be criminally prosecuted for being raped, not one where homosexuality is a death penalty crime, I can't think of a single religious society where the majority of adherents polled believe death is an appropriate punishment for apostasy, all of these are true of Islamic societies. With only two exceptions I see which are Turkey and Indonesia which practice a softer form of Islam. These were true long before Donald Trump became a presidential nominee, so this idea that Donald trump is a traitor because some Islamic group may have used him in a recruiting video because he's taken a hardline against Moslems who kill gays, whip rape victims, etc is plainly absurd.
 
I went by your link, your Link contained another link to their numbers, where they class mass casualty events by number of fatalities and whether it was Islam or RW politics motivated excluding 9/11 in the United States it shows 49 dead of RW inspired incidents and 98 of Islam inspired ones. In this country alone. Your source numbers do not back up the contention.

As far as the straw man argument that opposition to Islamic terror constitutes hatred of Islam or all 1.2 billion Moslems on earth is an oft repeated one, but it is false. However there are serious structural problems present in Islam, I can't think of a single non Islamic country where women can be criminally prosecuted for being raped, not one where homosexuality is a death penalty crime, I can't think of a single religious society where the majority of adherents polled believe death is an appropriate punishment for apostasy, all of these are true of Islamic societies. With only two exceptions I see which are Turkey and Indonesia which practice a softer form of Islam. These were true long before Donald Trump became a presidential nominee, so this idea that Donald trump is a traitor because some Islamic group may have used him in a recruiting video because he's taken a hardline against Moslems who kill gays, whip rape victims, etc is plainly absurd.

You're right, the data seems to have changed since the times article was published.

However, the Orlando shooting was erroneously marked as a jihadist shooting.
 
You're right, the data seems to have changed since the times article was published.

However, the Orlando shooting was erroneously marked as a jihadist shooting.
Guy targets gay bar, walks in with assault rifle chanting allahu ackbar while mowing people down, that's enough Islamic connection for me.

This is before we even count two separate federal investigations into connections with Islamic terrorists, his call pledging allegiance to ISIS that named specific people in ISIS, attending a mosque also attended by a man who went to Syria to be a suicide bomber

Any other theory for why he did it is speculation assuming facts not in evidence

What is mistakenly listed is the shooting at Seattle Jewish Federation, that guy was a Moslem who was simply mentally ill and targeted a Jewish group, but he had a history of mental illness and no real connections to terror
 
Last edited:
Guy targets gay bar, walks in with assault rifle chanting allahu ackbar while mowing people down, that's enough Islamic connection for me.

This is before we even count two separate federal investigations into connections with Islamic terrorists, his call pledging allegiance to ISIS that named specific people in ISIS, attending a mosque also attended by a man who went to Syria to be a suicide bomber

Any other theory for why he did it is speculation assuming facts not in evidence

What is mistakenly listed is the shooting at Seattle Jewish Federation, that guy was a Moslem who was simply mentally ill and targeted a Jewish group, but he had a history of mental illness and no real connections to terror

It's my opinion. I have reasons for my opinion.

"As investigators probe the background of Omar Mateen, whose attack on Pulse nightclub in Orlando left 49 people dead, they say he bore few warning signs of radicalization.

...

In fact, intelligence officials and investigators say they're "becoming increasingly convinced that the motive for this attack had very little — or maybe nothing — to do with ISIS.""

Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Showed Few Warning Signs Of Radicalization, Investigators Say : The Two-Way : NPR
 
Hold on now, i was more specific than that- i said that right wing terrorism is a bigger problem for us. Worldwide, i can certainly see the merit of your first sentence, but that's a different scope.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam. Making enemies of anyone who is Muslim is a bad idea. Broad brushing all of Islam is religion-based prejudice. I don't think we have anything to gain by attacking the religion.

No its not. Domestic terrorism is almost non-existent.
 
Back
Top Bottom