‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up bef

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

Moot said:

The police should NOT be escalating the situation. But time after time, that seems to be the problem. It makes me wonder what kind of training police are getting these days? I dunno but something is terribly wrong when police are causing more harm than they prevent. Perhaps, a solution might be to have all police training across the board standardized....plus a mandatory annual psychological evaluation. A free society shouldn't have to live in fear of the government's police.

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I've been thinking the last few days about this particular situation. If I had to take a stand on why this happened, it would be that the officer was under a tremendous amount of stress and fired her weapon in spite of herself. There's something wrong with the picture that's been painted here.

An officer with a taser...an officer with a gun..a man not following direction in light of the apparent gravity of the situation. My big question is why the guy was allowed to continue disobeying the LEOs and put himself next to his car reaching in a window giving cops cause to fear for their safety.

Why wasn't he tased sooner?

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

Excon said:

iLOL
No it is not. It is an allegation made by the prosecutor. Not evidence.

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Umm...the DA has to have evidence in order to make a charge.

iLOL
Wrong.
Why do you argue things you know nothing about?

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I was wondering the same about you. lol

It is the standard of review set forth by SCOTUS.

U.S. Supreme Court

Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989)

Syllabus

[...]

(c) The Fourth Amendment "reasonableness" inquiry is whether the officers' actions are "objectively reasonable" in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation. The "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene,and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation. Pp. 490 U. S. 396-397.

[...]​

U.S. Supreme Court | Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989)​

A police Officers use of deadly force, as well as most of their conduct, is always reviewed by how another similarly situated Officer would act. Not on the Public's second guessing.

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Now you're moving the goal posts because that wasn't your argument that I responded to. You said, "If the defense can present other Officers who will testify that they would have reacted the same under the same circumstances, she should be acquitted."

You didn't say anything about the officers that were at the scene.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

MaggieD said:

I've been thinking the last few days about this particular situation. If I had to take a stand on why this happened, it would be that the officer was under a tremendous amount of stress and fired her weapon in spite of herself. There's something wrong with the picture that's been painted here.

An officer with a taser...an officer with a gun..a man not following direction in light of the apparent gravity of the situation. My big question is why the guy was allowed to continue disobeying the LEOs and put himself next to his car reaching in a window giving cops cause to fear for their safety.

Why wasn't he tased sooner?

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The man's car had broken down in the middle of the road and he was standing in the street when the officers came on the scene. Instead of letting him explain the situation....(they) she immediately assumed he's on drugs and start screaming at him to get on the ground. Somewhere along the way communication broke down or didn't exist. So he puts his hands in the air and starts heading back to his vehicle. She gets pissed because he's acting "uppity" and shoots him in the back.

I don't agree that cops are above the law and can shoot anyone they please. If they aren't held accountable...then people lose faith in the justice system and start taking the law into their own hands. At that point the system breaks down and nobody is safe. There is no such thing as freedom without security.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

Moot said:

Umm...the DA has to have evidence in order to make a charge.

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Oy Vey!
That is not the issue.

Again.

That comment applies to what you pointed out in the Affidavit. That was an allegation and not evidence.

Moot said:

I was wondering the same about you. lol

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Hilarious.

Moot said:

Now you're moving the goal posts because that wasn't your argument that I responded to. You said, "If the defense can present other Officers who will testify that they would have reacted the same under the same circumstances, she should be acquitted."

You didn't say anything about the officers that were at the scene.

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iLOL
There has been no moving of the goal posts.

The language used by the Court is an affirmation of the already established objective reasonableness standard.


"... from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene ..."
Does not mean the person had to be on the scene. Or do you not realize that many Use of Force situations happen when there is only one Officer on the scene?

No it means to take the perspective of a similarly situated reasonable Officer.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

gdgyva said:

listen, obey, and live

be combative, dont listen, and dont do as they tell you to do, and take your chances

me...i will take door # 1 thank you....and then fight in court if i have been wronged

but i guess it is up to you....is listening to the police that hard on your ego?

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People who listened have been shot, and an officer shouldn't have the right to shoot somebody for not listening or being resistant. Lethal force should only be used if their life is threatened.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

SheWolf said:

People who listened have been shot, and an officer shouldn't have the right to shoot somebody for not listening or being resistant. Lethal force should only be used if their life is threatened.

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Reaching into your pocket or into a vehicle after you have been told not to is a threat.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

Fearandloathing said:

You know ****. In fact I am a community volunteer with the Vancouver Police Service, I hang with cops and I know that's bad policing.

Your comment does more than suggest you approve the killing, sheer it on in fact, as it has a complete lack of empathy of the dead victims of his family, just a blind comment that more than suggests it was the black guy's fault.

You know what? If it happened like once a year I might have some compassion as people get shot to death by cops here too. But as I noted it more than once a week. That tells me there is no pressure to change, the majority of the populace support it, and you came out on that side.

If you don't, then its time you said so, its also time you stooped imagining what others think, because you're as wrong thee as your police killings

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Here are my thoughts as an American.... I encounter a lot of people who think they way those cops thought. They see a black man and they see a "big bad dude." They think black men are scary. They think they are under some kind of threat because a black guy is in their presence. Being afraid around black males is pretty common IMO, but there are other people who have much larger negative perceptions and spend their time bemoaning black people and black culture, and blame black people for our social and political issues. (I think these people know they can't say black people are inferior, so they use the phrase black culture now.) Their position is that black people commit crimes, sit on welfare, expect handouts, and feel sorry for themselves because their ancestors were slaves. Most of these white people feel sorry for themselves and say, "I shouldn't have to apologize for slavery, something I didn't do!" and "white racism blah, blah, blah."

The most problematic way about their thinking is that black people are scary however. It's hardwired in their brains, and to an extent, our larger society. I also know it impacts me subconsciously, because I am told all the time that black men are scary. As a female, I have to look out and protect myself. If I get hurt, I am challenged why didn't I do a better job of protecting myself. If I don't profile a black guy in a dark parking lot, and choose to unlock my car, get out, and he attacks, then I know somebody is going to tell me it's because of his race and I shouldn't have trusted my safety with a black guy.

Somebody might say, "you should do the same if you see a white man in a dark parking lot." :lol: ... and that's not reality. People don't act as anxious when they see a big white dude. If it's a nice looking young guy, that has a completely different effect as well. If the white guy looks homeless, creepy, dodgy, or anti-social, then he gets profiled as scary by the people I am describing. However, black males tend to get profiled no matter what they are wearing, how they are acting, etc.

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

SheWolf said:

Here are my thoughts as an American.... I encounter a lot of people who think they way those cops thought. They see a black man and they see a "big bad dude." They think black men are scary. They think they are under some kind of threat because a black guy is in their presence. Being afraid around black males is pretty common IMO, but there are other people who have much larger negative perceptions and spend their time bemoaning black people and black culture, and blame black people for our social and political issues. (I think these people know they can't say black people are inferior, so they use the phrase black culture now.) Their position is that black people commit crimes, sit on welfare, expect handouts, and feel sorry for themselves because their ancestors were slaves. Most of these white people feel sorry for themselves and say, "I shouldn't have to apologize for slavery, something I didn't do!" and "white racism blah, blah, blah."

The most problematic way about their thinking is that black people are scary however. It's hardwired in their brains, and to an extent, our larger society. I also know it impacts me subconsciously, because I am told all the time that black men are scary. As a female, I have to look out and protect myself. If I get hurt, I am challenged why didn't I do a better job of protecting myself. If I don't profile a black guy in a dark parking lot, and choose to unlock my car, get out, and he attacks, then I know somebody is going to tell me it's because of his race and I shouldn't have trusted my safety with a black guy.

Somebody might say, "you should do the same if you see a white man in a dark parking lot." :lol: ... and that's not reality. People don't act as anxious when they see a big white dude. If it's a nice looking young guy, that has a completely different effect as well. If the white guy looks homeless, creepy, dodgy, or anti-social, then he gets profiled as scary by the people I am describing. However, black males tend to get profiled no matter what they are wearing, how they are acting, etc.

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"They", they this that that.

So how come people in Canada don't feel that way? Could it be we haven't been subjected to the subjective like "Cops" were you see only black men being hunted for badness. If people fear an entire race of people it is no longer a "they" problem, but an "us" problem. A black stranger can't do much to easy your fear, that's kind of your job.
But Americans are culturally frightened. Look at Trump, playing to the fears promising to ban 'all Muslims", that playing to your natural fears. Americans are outraged in fear about a threat that has never happened, not one documentable incident, and yet state government have decided to move into the bathrooms of the nation because of a totally unsupportable fears.
You live in a fear-based society, your border guards freak out over pot convictions that are over 30 years old, denying entry. Your governments have wage unnecessary wars from Vietnam to Grenada to Afghanistan because of the fears they can tap.
And despite 200 years you still fear your neighbors and arm yourselves against each other. It's not "they" who have the problem, the problem is "It's hardwired in their brains, and to an extent, our larger society. I also know it impacts me subconsciously, because I am told all the time that black men are scary."

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

SheWolf said:

People who listened have been shot, and an officer shouldn't have the right to shoot somebody for not listening or being resistant. Lethal force should only be used if their life is threatened.

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So we just let the perp go?

How much force is allowed to subdue and restrain?

How much force is allowed to make sure the officers safety and other citizens safety is not at risk?

When you are told to get on the ground, and you continue to refuse what should the police be able to do?

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

gdgyva said:

So we just let the perp go?

How much force is allowed to subdue and restrain?

How much force is allowed to make sure the officers safety and other citizens safety is not at risk?

When you are told to get on the ground, and you continue to refuse what should the police be able to do?

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What crime had this man perpetrated?

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

Kiwimac said:

What crime had this man perpetrated?

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I don't know....the entire report has t been made available yet as to exactly what occurred

Do you have info on the stop, and what occurred before the video

Facts, not speculation please

Re: ‘That big bad dude was a father’: Video shows black Oklahoma man had his hands up

SheWolf said:

Here are my thoughts as an American.... I encounter a lot of people who think they way those cops thought. They see a black man and they see a "big bad dude." They think black men are scary. They think they are under some kind of threat because a black guy is in their presence. Being afraid around black males is pretty common IMO, but there are other people who have much larger negative perceptions and spend their time bemoaning black people and black culture, and blame black people for our social and political issues. (I think these people know they can't say black people are inferior, so they use the phrase black culture now.) Their position is that black people commit crimes, sit on welfare, expect handouts, and feel sorry for themselves because their ancestors were slaves. Most of these white people feel sorry for themselves and say, "I shouldn't have to apologize for slavery, something I didn't do!" and "white racism blah, blah, blah."

The most problematic way about their thinking is that black people are scary however. It's hardwired in their brains, and to an extent, our larger society. I also know it impacts me subconsciously, because I am told all the time that black men are scary. As a female, I have to look out and protect myself. If I get hurt, I am challenged why didn't I do a better job of protecting myself. If I don't profile a black guy in a dark parking lot, and choose to unlock my car, get out, and he attacks, then I know somebody is going to tell me it's because of his race and I shouldn't have trusted my safety with a black guy.

Somebody might say, "you should do the same if you see a white man in a dark parking lot." :lol: ... and that's not reality. People don't act as anxious when they see a big white dude. If it's a nice looking young guy, that has a completely different effect as well. If the white guy looks homeless, creepy, dodgy, or anti-social, then he gets profiled as scary by the people I am describing. However, black males tend to get profiled no matter what they are wearing, how they are acting, etc.

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Blacks killing as many as whites combined with the Browns in America may have something to do with the fear of the scary black man being hard wired in their heads.