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"White Culture"

poweRob said:
I had seen a news story a bit back where Italians were rather pissed when they were called white. On a quick google I did come across this interesting story though...

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White as an identity refers to people of European descent, aka how the term has always been used. It's a complete lie to say that the Irish, Italians, etca, were at some point not considered white. At some points in American history, they were considered outsiders undoubtedly, but never were they viewed as another race.

When Italians immigrated to Argentina en masse, they were considered white along with the other European immigrants like the Spanish. At the point of departure, they were Italian. That is typically what happens in colonial contexts; the white immigrants merge together into one identity.

The same happened here in the States. The dominant European groups were the British (numerical majority at the Founding) and the Germans (big immigrant group post-Founding), but many other groups like the Dutch, French, Spanish, Italians, Irish, and many others were assimilated into the broader 'White American' identity and culture, which as mentioned could really be called 'American culture' since whites were between 80-90% of the population from the 1650's to the 1980's.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Which is irrelevant.
Whether they like it or not, they're White.
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Ok... Go to Italy and tell them they are just a part of white culture whether they like it or not. Lol
 
poweRob said:
Ok... Go to Italy and tell them they are just a part of white culture whether they like it or not. Lol
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If you told an Italian they were part of European culture, they would say 'damn straight! We basically invented the concept of modern civilization, along with the Greeks'

It's the country of the birthplace of Western Civlization - the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church, the Colosseum, the Renaissance, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Dante, Donatello, the operas of Verdi, the Florence Cathedral, Enrico Fermi, the world's oldest university (Bologna), and pizza & pasta! :mrgreen:

A country/region that has shaped Europe and the world for nearly 3000 years!

But enough digression :mrgreen:

The point is Italy undoubtedly belongs to an overarching European culture, which they have shaped. Calling it white or European culture is a distinction without a difference. I sense you're being needlessly argumentative here. No one on Earth denies a cultural continuity and link between countries on the European continent, on the Asian continent, on the African continent...
 
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Malloy said:
If you told an Italian they were part of European culture, they would say 'damn straight! We basically invented the concept of modern civilization, along with the Greeks'

It's the country of the birthplace of Western Civlization - the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church, the Colosseum, the Renaissance, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Dante, Donatello, the operas of Verdi, the Florence Cathedral, Enrico Fermi, the world's oldest university (Bologna), and pizza & pasta! :mrgreen:

A country/region that has shaped Europe and the world for nearly 3000 years!

But enough digression :mrgreen:

The point is Italy undoubtedly belongs to an overarching European culture, which they have shaped. Calling it white or European culture is a distinction without a difference. I sense you're being needlessly argumentative here. No one on Earth denies a cultural continuity and link between countries on the European continent, on the Asian continent, on the African continent...
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I'm not being argumentative or at least I'm not intending to be. I merely commented on a news piece I saw recently about how Italians don't identify themselves as white and Harry seemed to go all ballistic on me for having brought it up. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight whatsoever.

The only thing I think is silly is lumping very proud and very differing cultures together and declaring them as one culture predominately based on quantity of melanin rather than the actual cultures themselves.
 
poweRob said:
I'm not being argumentative or at least I'm not intending to be. I merely commented on a news piece I saw recently about how Italians don't identify themselves as white and Harry seemed to go all ballistic on me for having brought it up. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight whatsoever.
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Germans don't identify as white. They identify as German. They identify as European.
Italians don't identify as white. They identify as Italian. They identify as European.
Norwegians don't identify as white. They identify as Norwegian. They identify as European.

If anyone belonging to these groups came to a New World country like the United States, Canada, New Zealand or Australia, they would identify and be classified as white.

It's not a hard distinction to make.
 
poweRob said:
I'm not being argumentative or at least I'm not intending to be. I merely commented on a news piece I saw recently about how Italians don't identify themselves as white and Harry seemed to go all ballistic on me for having brought it up. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight whatsoever.

The only thing I think is silly is lumping very proud and very differing cultures together and declaring them as one culture predominately based on quantity of melanin rather than the actual cultures themselves.
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I didn't go ballistic, it's just stupid to think you can identify as any race.
Race is something you're born with.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I didn't go ballistic, it's just stupid to think you can identify as any race.
Race is something you're born with.
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Perhaps. But then again race is just an often pointless distinction we've made up for ourselves for whatever reason to feel better than someone else.
 
Malloy said:
If you told an Italian they were part of European culture, they would say 'damn straight! We basically invented the concept of modern civilization, along with the Greeks'

It's the country of the birthplace of Western Civlization - the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church, the Colosseum, the Renaissance, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Dante, Donatello, the operas of Verdi, the Florence Cathedral, Enrico Fermi, the world's oldest university (Bologna), and pizza & pasta! :mrgreen:

A country/region that has shaped Europe and the world for nearly 3000 years!

But enough digression :mrgreen:

The point is Italy undoubtedly belongs to an overarching European culture, which they have shaped. Calling it white or European culture is a distinction without a difference. I sense you're being needlessly argumentative here. No one on Earth denies a cultural continuity and link between countries on the European continent, on the Asian continent, on the African continent...
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They'd be wrong. Greece is clearly the birthplace of Western Civ.
 
poweRob said:
Perhaps. But then again race is just an often pointless distinction we've made up for ourselves for whatever reason to feel better than someone else.
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I don't use it to feel better than anyone else.
It's just a broad ancestral origination point.

Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't use it to feel better than anyone else.
It's just a broad ancestral origination point.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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That kind of makes no sense. You didn't originate from white.
 
Malloy said:
So you also don't think there's such a thing as "black culture", I take it? Go on, go and tell a group of blacks that and see their reaction...



Obviously. And blacks comprise Somalians, Congolese, etc., but here in the U.S. blacks definitely have their own unifying culture. The same is true of Whites. The various ethnicities from which White Americans descend -- mostly British and German -- have 'morphed' together into a White American culture. It's the culture which put the first man on the moon and reached the bottom of the Challenger Deep (the lowest point in the ocean) merely years apart :)
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British and German predominant? No. In order: German, Irish, African, British.
 
Risky Thicket said:
British and German predominant? No. In order: German, Irish, African, British.
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Not true.

Social scientists have observed that White Americans are less likely to list their ancestry as British, but that doesn't change the fact that a plurality of White Americans have British ancestry.

There are far more people with British ancestry in the U.S. than Irish ancestry. A problem here arises where people with some Irish ancestry are more likely to claim Irish ancestry in the census, whereas those with British ancestry usually claim some other component of their ancestry.

Check this out (from Wikipedia), it's really interesting:

It is important to note that breakdowns of the European American population into sub-components is a difficult and rather arbitrary exercise. Farley (1991) argues that "because of ethnic intermarriage, the numerous generations that separate respondents from their forbears and the apparent unimportance to many whites of European origin, responses appear quite inconsistent".[46]

In particular, a large majority of European Americans have ancestry from a number of different countries and the response to a single 'ancestry' gives little indication of the backgrounds of Americans today. When only prompted for a single response, the examples given on the census forms and a pride in identifying the more distinctive parts of one's heritage are important factors; these will likely adversely affect the numbers reporting ancestries from the British Isles. Multiple response ancestry data often greatly increase the numbers reporting for the main ancestry groups, although Farley goes as far to conclude that "no simple question will distinguish those who identify strongly with a specific European group from those who report symbolic or imagined ethnicity." He highlights responses in the Current Population Survey (1973) where for the main 'old' ancestry groups (e.g., German, Irish, English, and French), over 40% change their reported ancestry over the six-month period between survey waves (page 422).

An important example to note is that in 1980 23.75 million Americans claimed English ancestry and 25.85 claimed English ancestry together with one or more other. This represents 49.6 million people. The table below shows that in 1990 when only single and primary responses were allowed this fell to 32 million and in 2000 to 24 million.[48]

The largest self-reported ancestries in 2000, reporting over 5 million members, were in order: German, Irish, English, American, Italian, French, and Polish. They have different distributions within the United States; in general, the northern half of the United States from Pennsylvania westward is dominated by German ancestry, and the southern half by English and American. Irish may be found throughout the entire country.

Italian ancestry is most common in the Northeast, Polish in the Great Lakes Region, and French in New England and Louisiana. U.S. Census Bureau statisticians estimate that approximately 62 percent of European Americans today are either wholly or partly of English, Welsh, Irish, or Scottish ancestry. Approximately 86% of European Americans today are of northwestern and central European ancestry, and 14% are of southeastern European and White Hispanic and Latino American descent.
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Wait. I read your previous post:
digitusmedius said:
Wow, not one but two rightwing rags for references. "Impressive." And "convincing." BWWWWAAAAHHHAAAAHHHAAAAHAHA
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Then you present an article from a left wing rag.
digitusmedius said:
Decent people are still wondering when republicans will produce one case of voter fraud that isn't committed by them:
Shocker: Republicans Account For Most Cases Of U.S. Voter Fraud | Addicting Info | The Knowledge You Crave
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I am gobsmacked I tell you, just gobsmacked. Shocking, just shocking. (not really, getting used to the double standard)
 
NonoBadDog said:
Wait. I read your previous post:


Then you present an article from a left wing rag.


I am gobsmacked I tell you, just gobsmacked. Shocking, just shocking. (not really, getting used to the double standard)
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Difference is, as usual, my source is accurate. Yours is not. That important distinction always seems to elude your sort to my great amusement.
 
digitusmedius said:
Difference is, as usual, my source is accurate. Yours is not. That important distinction always seems to elude your sort to my great amusement.
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Dood, the only sources I produced were quotes from you so to claim my sources are not accurate is confusing. Is it my quoting of you the source of my inaccuracy or is it that I quoted a person that is inaccurate? I would say that my quoting of your posts is pretty accurate. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your hackish posts in this thread; that double standard thing that glaringly stands out. I am just trying to help bro.
 
KevinKohler said:
They're more white than black.
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lol what. Italians aren't black at all. They're a Romance people with Italic (Roman/Latin), Celtic & a little Germanic (in the North) input.

I have no idea where this myth originates from that Italians are somehow less white or European than other European ethnic groups.

Some notable Italians:

Famous_Italians_Collage.jpg


Famous Italian actors/actresses:

collage.jpg


Famous Italian sportswomen:

Collage_of_Italian_sportswomen.jpg
 
NonoBadDog said:
Dood, the only sources I produced were quotes from you so to claim my sources are not accurate is confusing. Is it my quoting of you the source of my inaccuracy or is it that I quoted a person that is inaccurate? I would say that my quoting of your posts is pretty accurate. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your hackish posts in this thread; that double standard thing that glaringly stands out. I am just trying to help bro.
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[Again with the "dood" (I guess this spelling, what, makes you seem cooler -- or would that be spelled culer). Really, "dood," how old are you guys whose vocabulary depends so heavily on that word? But I digress. On to the subject]:

I'll try to explain this again. Your source contained lies. My source contained facts; ascertainable, verifiable, on-the-record facts.
 
Malloy said:
lol what. Italians aren't black at all.
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This is all very fascinating but isn't there some DP dictum or convention on at least keeping to the general topic of the thread which is General Political Discussion? There must be a genealogy thread somewhere on this site so all notions about race and ethnicity are taken seriously whether they deserve it or not. Or is the idea here to swamp this particular thread with irrelevant nonsense?
 
Malloy said:
Not true.

Social scientists have observed that White Americans are less likely to list their ancestry as British, but that doesn't change the fact that a plurality of White Americans have British ancestry.

There are far more people with British ancestry in the U.S. than Irish ancestry. A problem here arises where people with some Irish ancestry are more likely to claim Irish ancestry in the census, whereas those with British ancestry usually claim some other component of their ancestry.

Check this out (from Wikipedia), it's really interesting:
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You are indeed correct. I was thinking off the cuff and thinking only of the South, which was initially settled by Scots-Irish, Irish, Africans and Germans and British.
 
NonoBadDog said:
Wait. I read your previous post:


Then you present an article from a left wing rag.


I am gobsmacked I tell you, just gobsmacked. Shocking, just shocking. (not really, getting used to the double standard)
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Wait. Are you saying you were gobsmacked? Truly and literally GOBSMACKED? Smacked right squarely in the gob, you say? Your gob took a direct smack? Or was it a glancing smack? A sidelong smack? An overhead smack? Did your gob not see it coming....a surprise smack? The public demand details.

And this double standard.....are you referring to the standard of falsity that you use and that of fact that I do? That "double standard." Must be that. Has to be that. There's no other way of bringing up the idea of "double standard" unless it's that.
 
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