Do you believe Obama loves America?

JC Callender said:

Anyone who cheats on their wife, and essentially their family, is weak and has proved that they not only made at least one really poor huge decision in their life but they've also failed to do the honorable thing and stay faithful. Clinton was a serial cheater and a sexual harasser. Think of one really young, wonderful little girl that you know. Now imagine her watching t.v. and finding out that her dad stuck a cigar in some strange woman. Would you agree that a person who puts their country before themselves would also put their family before themselves?

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President Eisenhower knocked boots with his female driver during WWII. I consider him an honorable man. Warren Harding was a bit of a womanizer. Grover Cleveland banged the office whore, not exactly honorable. How about founder Thomas Jefferson and his brood of half caste children with one of his slaves? James Garfield had an 18 yo mistress.

I think you confuse honorable with infallible. The last perfect person got tacked to a cross to consider his life choices for a few days.

I don't many of us are in danger of such a fate... Ike included....

JC Callender said:

When I say "love", I mean do you feel like he wants what's best for the U.S.. I disagree with much of what he's done, but I feel he does. I would guess that he went into politics because he knew he had the ability to make major changes and help people. I wouldn't say the same about Hillary as I feel she's first and foremost personally ambitious. And probably the same for Trump. But I feel like Obama is a good guy who's political philosophy I'm opposed to. What do you think?

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I very much suspect he does want, what he considers to be best for his picture of the country. It seems hard to believe that he could have made President as one of the evil ones.

iguanaman said:

I think you are placing your values on others. Bill Clinton was no different that other powerful men who became President. Do you think FDR loved this country?

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I don't know whether that's important or not. I do have a low opinion of what Clinton did on a personal level, but even in a practical sense, Clinton treated the single most important commitment of his life (his marriage) with utter contempt. I think that says a great deal about whether a person is self-serving or serving others.

I don't believe that Clinton is like every other president either. I think he's especially self centered, petty, and morally bankrupt. I wouldn't assign any of these attributes to Obama.

notquiteright said:

President Eisenhower knocked boots with his female driver during WWII. I consider him an honorable man. Warren Harding was a bit of a womanizer. Grover Cleveland banged the office whore, not exactly honorable. How about founder Thomas Jefferson and his brood of half caste children with one of his slaves? James Garfield had an 18 yo mistress.

I think you confuse honorable with infallible. The last perfect person got tacked to a cross to consider his life choices for a few days.

I don't many of us are in danger of such a fate... Ike included....

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I looked up your first example, Eisenhower, and it turns out that most of his biographers disagree with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Summersby

JC Callender said:

When I say "love", I mean do you feel like he wants what's best for the U.S.. I disagree with much of what he's done, but I feel he does. I would guess that he went into politics because he knew he had the ability to make major changes and help people. I wouldn't say the same about Hillary as I feel she's first and foremost personally ambitious. And probably the same for Trump. But I feel like Obama is a good guy who's political philosophy I'm opposed to. What do you think?

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I think you're pretty much correct. I don't doubt Obama loves the country. I think what he thinks is right is wrong, but I don't doubt his sincerity. Hillary, on the other hand, only loves Hillary... and maybe her daughter*. Same with Trump.

*-I sense that Hillary is a very lonely person, and very bitter inside, but it's also her own doing and a subject better left for another thread.

chuckiechan said:

He doesn't like it the way it is. He sees his mission as one of changing the nation's demographic to A: destroy the Republican party, and B: have an underclass that demands socialism in exchange for low wages. This dependency only has to last sixteen years and no one will remember what older people called "good times".

Businesses will be left with few options but to either leave or go along with an ever increasing tax bill and burdensome regulations. The Democrats, per Hillary feel they can use the tax code to force companies to stay. A liberal Supreme Court could find a way to allow this to happen, but you cannot stop the entrepreneurs from leaving.

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I'm always curious how conservatives see the future playing out, if conservatives dictate our path. How does conspicuous consumption and exploitation in a dynamic market, controlled by a few, secure a human future more than collective, positive self-directed evolution? The labels "republican" and "democratic" are useless except in a deliberately divided world. Democracy is in response to division, to some degree, and politics everywhere demands it. But, why can't our division be about HOW to feed and educate all of the children, not whether to. As burdensome as you think the government is upon the pursuit of money, the burden pales in comparison to the burdens of slavery and pollution, ignorance and starvation.

I resent the resolution to greed inherent in the conservative position. It's defeatist, to say the least. To focus on the way things are, as if that is how they should always be, is to look at an eighteenth century slave ship, with all of the suffering it represents, and dream about how, one day in the future, they'll be able to just fly them in.

The more accurate definition of a conservative is: Someone utterly lacking in a moral vision and happy with it.

D_NATURED said:

I'm always curious how conservatives see the future playing out, if conservatives dictate our path. How does conspicuous consumption and exploitation in a dynamic market, controlled by a few, secure a human future more than collective, positive self-directed evolution?

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You've just described how a liberal future would play out as well. The only difference would be liberal rich people owning you, instead of conservative ones. Quit pretending the democrats are all puppies and kitties. They're just as oligarchic as conservatives. Hillary Clinton proves that.

Sparky2 said:

You missed my earlier posting on the topic, surely.

I don't believe that a self-serving, self-absorbed, pathological liar like Barack Obama is capable of being a Christian.
Nor do I believe that a self-serving, self-absorbed, pathological liar like Barack Obama is capable of being a Muslim.

He is whatever he chooses to present to whatever audience he is pandering to at any given moment.

When he is speaking to Christians, he presents himself as a Christian.

When he is pandering to Muslims and Muslim sympathizers, he presents himself as a Muslim.

When speaking to largely black crowds, he shifts into the patois of an urban, street-wise black man.

When pandering to a mostly-white, educated crowd, he speaks with no ebonic inflections whatsoever.

The man is a chameleon, and he is a sham. A fraud.
And, sadly, many fools have fallen for his con-game.

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Much of what you claim about Barack Obama could be said of Donald Trump.

Obama has been one of our better presidents. No scandals, avoided getting bogged down into wars we can't win, like in Syria and Libya.
20 million Americans how have health insurance because he was elected. Pretty hard to minimize that accomplishment, even though conservatives try mightily.
Future Americans, grappling with the grim reality of global warming, will also recognize the efforts he made to mitigate that ongoing crisis.

Sparky2 said:

When he is pandering to Muslims and Muslim sympathizers, he presents himself as a Muslim.

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Evidence?

Yeah. Didn't think so.

JC Callender said:

I don't know whether that's important or not. I do have a low opinion of what Clinton did on a personal level, but even in a practical sense, Clinton treated the single most important commitment of his life (his marriage) with utter contempt. I think that says a great deal about whether a person is self-serving or serving others.

I don't believe that Clinton is like every other president either. I think he's especially self centered, petty, and morally bankrupt. I wouldn't assign any of these attributes to Obama.

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Again men who are driven to power are often seen as "womanizers" and the escapades of so many Presidents make that perfectly clear. While it is not something that endears me it certainly should not be seen as a deal breaker IMO. High tension jobs and sex seem to go together and Obama is the exception not the rule.

iguanaman said:

Again men who are driven to power are often seen as "womanizers" and the escapades of so many Presidents make that perfectly clear. While it is not something that endears me it certainly should not be seen as a deal breaker IMO. High tension jobs and sex seem to go together and Obama is the exception not the rule.

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GWB, George HW Bush, Reagan, Carter....all womanizers?

The evidence would indicate that Barack Obama hates America and will do whatever he can to damage America and Americans. While he's a virulent racist his hatred of America transcends race. He's willing to destroy all Americans.