• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why Do We Have the Political Opinions We Do?

SmartCat

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
3,955
Reaction score
889
Location
North East USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Karl Marx held that a person’s income, and the source of his income, determined the person’s political preferences. There is some truth to this. Those earning minimum wage are more likely to favor increases in the minimum wage than their employers, especially if their employers hire mostly minimum wage employees, and are in danger of going out of business. If the minimum wage goes up they are likely to lose their businesses. Those who belong to trade unions are likely to vote Democrat. Their employers are likely to vote Republican.

Nevertheless, for most people most of the time loyalties of class are less powerful than loyalties of race, nationality, and ethnicity. In his book The Emerging Republican Majority, published in 1969 Kevin Phillips reported that when large numbers of Jews moved to New York City during the turn of the last century, most of them voted Republican. This was because Tammany Hall, which dominated New York City politics, was dominated by Irish. Jews began to move to the Democrat Party, but it was the New Deal that made them the steadfast Democratic constituency they are now.

During the turn of the last century Mark Hanna, a powerful Republican, said, “I carry the black vote around in my vest pocket.” Blacks continued to vote Republican in large numbers until the civil rights movement. I have read that Martin Luther King, Jr. was a registered Republican.

The civil rights movement, which turned blacks Democrat, turned Southern whites Republican.

In The Emerging Republican Majority Kevin Phillips said that when the black population of a state is less than ten percent it has little effect on white voting behavior. When the black population exceeds ten percent whites get nervous. When it approaches fifty percent the control of those blacks is the most important political issue for most whites in the state.

Southern whites traditionally were hostile to Roman Catholics too. Kevin Phillips had an interesting story of conflicting Southern white loyalties. During the presidential election of 1928 the Democrats nominated Al Smith, who was a Roman Catholic. Smith was disliked in the South. For the first time Southern border states voted for a Republican presidential candidate. Nevertheless, the deep South voted for Al Smith. This was because they were more hostile to blacks than to Roman Catholics.

Members of each race who lack highly marketable job skills tend to favor hiring preferences for their race. Blacks favor affirmative action. Lower income whites favor white supremacy.

A third factor that influences voting behavior is sexual preference. By this I do not refer to the dichotomy between heterosexuals and homosexuals. I mean the dichotomy among heterosexuals between those who value marriage, and those who enjoy casual sex and sexual variety.

This is discussed in The Hidden Agenda of the Political Mind, by Jason Weeden and Robert Kurzban.

They label as “ring bearers” those who value marriage, and who have little interest in casual sex and sexual variety. They label as “free wheelers” those who have little interest in marriage, and who enjoy casual sex and sexual variety.

The difference between ring bearers and free wheelers is analog rather than binary. Ring bearers and free wheelers are at opposite ends of a continuum.

An interesting assertion made by Weeden and Kurzban is that sexual behavior has more of an influence of church attendance than does church attendance on sexual behavior. Free wheelers who are raised in religious families usually stop going to church. Ring bearers who are raised in secular families usually start going to church.

Free wheelers are more likely to oppose restrictions on pornography and abortion, they are more likely to go to bars and parties, and they are more likely to favor the legalization of marijuana. They are also more likely to vote Democrat.

Ring bearers are more likely to vote Republican. In the 2004 presidential election people who attended church more than once a week were 81 percent likely to vote for George W. Bush.

Election 2004 Analysis | November 5, 2004 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS

Economic interests, ethnicity, and sexual behavior have more influence on voting behavior than fact based arguments. Awhile ago I read an article in The New York Times that said that liberals do not want to be told bad things about homosexuals and blacks.

This can be seen in the murder of Matthew Shepard. In 1969 he was killed by two men he picked up in a bar. That was in the news for months. It was only years later that I learned that at about the same time two adult male homosexuals raped and tortured to death a thirteen year old boy.

There was no conspiracy to cover that up. Nevertheless, most journalists are liberals. They did not want to cover the story.
 
All of that can basically be boiled down to the following:

1. Conservatives are often socially authoritarian. Thus the more socially conservative you are, the more apt you are to vote for Republicans because you want your socially conservative beliefs codified into law.

2. Everyone has a tendency to be tribal to one degree or another. They tend to want their tribe in power (whether this is their religious group, race, ethnicity, those they see as in their culture and so on). They also don't like hearing bad things about those in their tribe. For example, liberals don't like hearing bad things about gays as you pointed out. Conservatives don't like hearing bad things about Evangelical Christians or Gun Owners. We all have this tendency of being tribal.

3. Southern whites moved to the Republican Party in response to Civil Rights out of cultural and bigoted reasons. Also, Martin Luther King was as socialist, hardly a Republican by any standard we have today. Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican | PolitiFact Virginia

4. What made a story go national (before social media) is very complex and hardly predictable. Its has little to do with journalists ideology. However, let a pretty young white girl get brutally murdered and it will make the national news. If a young black kid gets brutally murder chances are it will be a local story.

5. Some of the biggest opponents to affirmative action have been white women who oddly enough have been some of the biggest beneficiaries of it.

As to why we have the political beliefs we have, its has about half to do with how we are wired up and about half to do with how we were raised.
 
During the turn of the last century Mark Hanna, a powerful Republican, said, “I carry the black vote around in my vest pocket.” Blacks continued to vote Republican in large numbers until the civil rights movement. I have read that Martin Luther King, Jr. was a registered Republican.

The civil rights movement, which turned blacks Democrat, turned Southern whites Republican.

In The Emerging Republican Majority Kevin Phillips said that when the black population of a state is less than ten percent it has little effect on white voting behavior. When the black population exceeds ten percent whites get nervous. When it approaches fifty percent the control of those blacks is the most important political issue for most whites in the state.

Southern whites traditionally were hostile to Roman Catholics too. Kevin Phillips had an interesting story of conflicting Southern white loyalties. During the presidential election of 1928 the Democrats nominated Al Smith, who was a Roman Catholic. Smith was disliked in the South. For the first time Southern border states voted for a Republican presidential candidate. Nevertheless, the deep South voted for Al Smith. This was because they were more hostile to blacks than to Roman Catholics.

Members of each race who lack highly marketable job skills tend to favor hiring preferences for their race. Blacks favor affirmative action. Lower income whites favor white supremacy.

A third factor that influences voting behavior is sexual preference. By this I do not refer to the dichotomy between heterosexuals and homosexuals. I mean the dichotomy among heterosexuals between those who value marriage, and those who enjoy casual sex and sexual variety.

This is discussed in The Hidden Agenda of the Political Mind, by Jason Weeden and Robert Kurzban.

They label as “ring bearers” those who value marriage, and who have little interest in casual sex and sexual variety. They label as “free wheelers” those who have little interest in marriage, and who enjoy casual sex and sexual variety.

The difference between ring bearers and free wheelers is analog rather than binary. Ring bearers and free wheelers are at opposite ends of a continuum.

An interesting assertion made by Weeden and Kurzban is that sexual behavior has more of an influence of church attendance than does church attendance on sexual behavior. Free wheelers who are raised in religious families usually stop going to church. Ring bearers who are raised in secular families usually start going to church.

Free wheelers are more likely to oppose restrictions on pornography and abortion, they are more likely to go to bars and parties, and they are more likely to favor the legalization of marijuana. They are also more likely to vote Democrat.

Ring bearers are more likely to vote Republican. In the 2004 presidential election people who attended church more than once a week were 81 percent likely to vote for George W. Bush.

Election 2004 Analysis | November 5, 2004 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS

Economic interests, ethnicity, and sexual behavior have more influence on voting behavior than fact based arguments. Awhile ago I read an article in The New York Times that said that liberals do not want to be told bad things about homosexuals and blacks.

This can be seen in the murder of Matthew Shepard. In 1969 he was killed by two men he picked up in a bar. That was in the news for months. It was only years later that I learned that at about the same time two adult male homosexuals raped and tortured to death a thirteen year old boy.

There was no conspiracy to cover that up. Nevertheless, most journalists are liberals. They did not want to cover the story.

Your history of the black vote is incorrect.

Blacks voted mainly Republican after the Civil War and through early 20th century for two reasons: Abraham Lincoln, who was Republican (a party platform that is mainly the current Dem Party Platform), and white southern segregationists who were Democrats.

With the election of FDR, that changed. Blacks voted 71% Democratic Party with the election of FDR, and have never reverted to Republican.

Of course, bear in mind that blacks in the south were kept from voting at all, for the most part, until after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.

Blacks and the Democratic Party

Also, Martin Luther King, Jr. was NOT a Republican. Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican | PolitiFact Virginia
 
Depending on the issue at hand, whether economic or social, the topic matter will determine whether we want more or less freedom or more or less security in the matter, whether we lean more or less toward liberty or justice respectively on the topic.

People who are tired of illegal aliens taking their jobs, road space, etc., they are going to likely want more protection, so security and thus justice for American citizens will be their perspective.

People who have gained pain relief through pot smoking and are tired of the risks they take to obtain their drug, they are going to likely want more opportunities, so freedom and liberty for buyers will be their perspective.

The substantive perspective will always depend on the person's history on the topic or its broader foundation, especially their related childhood experiences.

Whether we lean left or right on the traditional political spectrum is merely a plotting exercise with respect to more traditional status quo positions.

Generally, social freedom-liberty and economic security-justice is found on the left whereas social security-justice and economic freedom-liberty is found on the right.

I don't reference the libertarian political compass because it is blatantly in error in its top-bottom poles of libertarian-authoritarian. "Authoritarian" is an obviously biased error, though it speaks a lot about what libertarians experienced with their parents as kids. The accurate term would be "justician", though no such word exists yet, derived from the word "justice", just as "libertarian" is derived from he word "liberty". Libertarians really error on the side of liberty .. but at the expense of justice, so they often find those wanting justice to be in the way of their liberty, so they demean them with the word "authoritarian". But this blatant error is simply that -- obvious .. and accounts for why the Libertarian Party has never really taken off.

With respect to Democrats and Republicans, there's a traditional female-male polarization respectively there, with liberal women running the Democrats and conservative men running the Republicans.

But generally, the traditional winners in their roles are Republican and the traditional losers in their roles are Democrat. In today's bottom-heavy economic structure, the losers are outnumbering the winners.

Men winners historically enjoy economic freedom, so they're likely conservative on economic issues .. and often male losers are just the opposite, though it can be a slow transition for them.

Women winners historically enjoy social security, so they're likely conservative on social issues .. and often female losers are just the opposite, and that has been a bit faster of a transition for them.

Libertarians are usually all about freedom-liberty, being on the left on social issues and on the right on economic issues. Libertarianism is greatly male-dominated, understandably.

But there is no "Justician" movement-party, left wing on economic issues and right wing on social issues. If there was, it would likely be female-dominated, of course. Its absence implies that women have yet to really come into their own politically perhaps.

This is an interesting topic, for sure, as there's much, much more on this matter to be told.
 
Your history of the black vote is incorrect.

Blacks voted mainly Republican after the Civil War and through early 20th century for two reasons: Abraham Lincoln, who was Republican (a party platform that is mainly the current Dem Party Platform), and white southern segregationists who were Democrats.

With the election of FDR, that changed. Blacks voted 71% Democratic Party with the election of FDR, and have never reverted to Republican.

Of course, bear in mind that blacks in the south were kept from voting at all, for the most part, until after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.

Blacks and the Democratic Party

Also, Martin Luther King, Jr. was NOT a Republican. Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican | PolitiFact Virginia

What you say about the black vote is true. :3oops:
 
All of that can basically be boiled down to the following:

1. Conservatives are often socially authoritarian. Thus the more socially conservative you are, the more apt you are to vote for Republicans because you want your socially conservative beliefs codified into law.

I was going to come up with a reply to this, I was too busy getting hauled into court for refusing to bake a cake.



Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
All of that can basically be boiled down to the following:

1. Conservatives are often socially authoritarian. Thus the more socially conservative you are, the more apt you are to vote for Republicans because you want your socially conservative beliefs codified into law.

2. Everyone has a tendency to be tribal to one degree or another. They tend to want their tribe in power (whether this is their religious group, race, ethnicity, those they see as in their culture and so on). They also don't like hearing bad things about those in their tribe. For example, liberals don't like hearing bad things about gays as you pointed out. Conservatives don't like hearing bad things about Evangelical Christians or Gun Owners. We all have this tendency of being tribal.

3. Southern whites moved to the Republican Party in response to Civil Rights out of cultural and bigoted reasons. Also, Martin Luther King was as socialist, hardly a Republican by any standard we have today. Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican | PolitiFact Virginia

4. What made a story go national (before social media) is very complex and hardly predictable. Its has little to do with journalists ideology. However, let a pretty young white girl get brutally murdered and it will make the national news. If a young black kid gets brutally murder chances are it will be a local story.

5. Some of the biggest opponents to affirmative action have been white women who oddly enough have been some of the biggest beneficiaries of it.

As to why we have the political beliefs we have, its has about half to do with how we are wired up and about half to do with how we were raised.
Above response was a one liner, but overall a good post that I would take a few quibbles with. I'm reading through Haidt's Righteous Mind, you might like it.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
I was going to come up with a reply to this, I was too busy getting hauled into court for refusing to bake a cake.



Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Yeah? Maybe I see you when I have to report to court for refusing a call he a she.
 
Back
Top Bottom