Prayer in PUBLIC schools

nota bene · Sep 4, 2016

The good news is that most people aren't fanatics.

nota bene · Sep 4, 2016

countryboy said:
Sorry to learn a child was disciplined for misbehaving? Oh the horror.

Well, yes. I can't imagine a Sunday School teacher beating a child.

Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

nota bene said:
The good news is that most people aren't fanatics.

Very true,but there seems to be a number pro-prayer people here who seem to think they should get what they want because religion trumps the rights of children of other religions and their parents.

trouble13 · Sep 4, 2016

Verthaine said:
No it isn't.
Forcing children to recite a prayer despite being from a different religion is not education,it's indoctrination.

I would not condone forcing anyone to recite a prayer. I just dont object to being present while one is being recited.

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nota bene · Sep 4, 2016

Verthaine said:
Very true,but there seems to be a number pro-prayer people here who seem to think they should get what they want because religion trumps the rights of children of other religions and their parents.

You mean here at DP? If so, the number seems to me to be small in contrast to the many who are people of faith who aren't continually proselytizing.

trouble13 · Sep 4, 2016

Kal'Stang said:
Kids should be allowed to practice their religion. Whether its in groups or singly makes no difference.

Teachers should not be leading any prayers but I have no problem with them praying during school hours. So long as they do not require any student to join them. Like it or not teachers have the same rights as children. However they should never be allowed to talk about their religion to any student. And yes, there is a difference between practicing a religion through prayer and proselyting to students.

For me there is a line between talking about your religion and preaching it. I have no objection to a teacher explaining what his religion is to his students but i do not want them telling children they must believe in it.

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Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

nota bene said:
You mean here at DP? If so, the number seems to me to be small in contrast to the many who are people of faith who aren't continually proselytizing.

Whether they are small or not,they are here trying to influence they way you think and believe.

Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

trouble13 said:
I would not condone forcing anyone to recite a prayer. I just dont object to being present while one is being recited.

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Then it should be done by a teacher before or after school.
Simple as that.

nota bene · Sep 4, 2016

Verthaine said:
Whether they are small or not,they are here trying to influence they way you think and believe.

No doubt they are, and I guess it's up to us as adults to decide whether we're going to permit others to influence our thinking. Most of us are pretty good at this.

countryboy · Sep 4, 2016

nota bene said:
Well, yes. I can't imagine a Sunday School teacher beating a child.

Which is why I doubt the veracity of the claim.

Usually, these rabid anti-Christians who claim they turned against organized religion because they were "abused" by adherents, never really give any details of that abuse. Couple that with other exaggerated mischaracterizations, hyperbolic statements, and disinformation perpetuated by these people, and it is next to impossible to take anything they say at face value.

nota bene · Sep 4, 2016

countryboy said:
Which is why I doubt the veracity of the claim.

Usually, these rabid anti-Christians who claim they turned against organized religion because they were "abused" by adherents, never really give any details of that abuse. Couple that with other exaggerated mischaracterizations, hyperbolic statements, and disinformation perpetuated by these people, and it is next to impossible to take anything they say at face value.

I can't say that I agree with you. I don't have any reason to doubt what Verthaine says, and some of what I've read online has had details of abuse. I think abuse is extremely uncommon, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or that some children are so traumatized that they grow up to violently reject religion in all its forms because of it.

Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

countryboy said:
Which is why I doubt the veracity of the claim.

Usually, these rabid anti-Christians who claim they turned against organized religion because they were "abused" by adherents, never really give any details of that abuse. Couple that with other exaggerated mischaracterizations, hyperbolic statements, and disinformation perpetuated by these people, and it is next to impossible to take anything they say at face value.

Do you want detailed descriptions on what my uncle did to me?

Stop trying to force your beliefs on other people.
There is no pressing need to have the government mandate school prayer.
And you and others have given no other reason to do so other than the egotistical and childish "but,but,but I want it".
Like I have stated before,there are those here who want to suppress any criticism of Christians or Christianity and It seems you are one of them.

trouble13 · Sep 4, 2016

Verthaine said:
Then it should be done by a teacher before or after school.
Simple as that.

I dont object to that nor do i object it being done during homeroom or during a school event. I get your point i just dont see it as beine a big enough of a deal to object over it.

I dont like in god we trust printed on our money but im not going to demand we reprint all the money over it

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Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

trouble13 said:
I dont object to that nor do i object it being done during homeroom or during a school event. I get your point i just dont see it as beine a big enough of a deal to object over it.

I do.
The pro-prayer want to take away my rights as a parent.
How can you not understand that?
As a parent I have the right to give my chidren religious training or not if I choose.
Not the State,not the schools,and certainly not anyone here.
Religion belongs in homes and churches,not in the classroom (other than religion comparison classes).

Kal'Stang · Sep 4, 2016

trouble13 said:
For me there is a line between talking about your religion and preaching it. I have no objection to a teacher explaining what his religion is to his students but i do not want them telling children they must believe in it.

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I would agree with you on this. As long as the student asks about it. However you just KNOW that someone is going to complain and sue over it claiming its "preaching" and it will cost taxpayers thousands of dollars at best. More at worst. So in this case I don't mind a teacher not being able to talk about it.

Verthaine · Sep 4, 2016

Kal'Stang said:
I would agree with you on this. As long as the student asks about it. However you just KNOW that someone is going to complain and sue over it claiming its "preaching" and it will cost taxpayers thousands of dollars at best. More at worst. So in this case I don't mind a teacher not being able to talk about it.

Well you know,there is always that "one guy who takes things to far" everywhere you look.

trouble13 · Sep 4, 2016

Verthaine said:
I do.
The pro-prayer want to take away my rights as a parent.
How can you not understand that?
As a parent I have the right to give my chidren religious training or not if I choose.
Not the State,not the schools,and certainly not anyone here.
Religion belongs in homes and churches,not in the classroom (other than religion comparison classes).

I agree with you in principle but just like sex ed, where i believe my child should be exposed to it is not the practicle truth of the matter. Your kid is going to exposed to religious dogma no matter how hard you try to avoid it. The only thing you can do as a good parent is adress it as it rears its head.

I raised my so to decide for himself. When we would encounter something like a Jewish freind inviting him to a mitzvah or what posses someone to hold up a john 3:16 sign at a football game (actually that one stoll confuses me), i do my best to explain what those people believe and why its important to them and what i believe and why those cermonies and traditions are not important to me. I left him free to make up his own mind for himself.

It was a lot of work and challenged my patience for relifious tolerance at times. He had one freind that was constantlty tryong to drag him off onto these christain youth group retreats. He liked the kids but those things resemble indoctrination camps. It was a pretty stressful time for me but i stayed the course and true to my word and in the end he grew out it, thank god, lol.

My son who is 21 now recently told me he has concluded he is an athesist as well. That is a decission he came to on his own without undo pressure from to believe in any particular thing. I did not hide my beliefs nor did i tell him he needed to share them with me for my approval i just explained to him digferent strokes for different folks. His mom believes in a god and i love her. Her grand parents practiced religion and i loved them. In fact he was baptized and has god parents to datisify the zealots in my family. That in itself is kind of funny because i name a xhatholic zealot as his god mom and charged her with the task of raising him as an athesist if anything should ever happen to me. I have a warped sense of humor like that.

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trouble13 · Sep 4, 2016

Kal'Stang said:
I would agree with you on this. As long as the student asks about it. However you just KNOW that someone is going to complain and sue over it claiming its "preaching" and it will cost taxpayers thousands of dollars at best. More at worst. So in this case I don't mind a teacher not being able to talk about it.

I know and i get why school policy is to not allow it. Its not right though.

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