Government is evil by nature

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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How small should a Federal Government be?

Lets take a small country... Belize for example. How many people should that be?

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature.

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Not anymore than any other illegitimate, unaccountable human institution that can control the fate of other humans.

Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

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I agree, capitalism is terrible. It allows people to accrue massive amounts of private capital and manipulate all other institutions --governments, universities, the medical industry, etc-- in order to maintain their hegemony over the average person. That, in turn, magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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Hmm, nope, sorry this doesn't follow. Government should be more democratic --that means that individuals don't have the same ability to manipulate the system. That follows. I can see stopping people from being able to accrue unlimited money --that follows, since private and public institutions control your life, your access to necessities, etc, very much equally.

But eliminating one public institution where there's nominally some democratic, equal input by all individuals (and thus has some form of accountability) and replacing it with private, unaccountable, anti-transparent institutions --how is that supposed to follow what you've protested in the previous three sentences?

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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Is this a real post?

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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In a sense, yes. Unfortunately, there is no viable alternative. It is then to decide how much government is needed. Then again, this will almost always result in the growth of governmental power as even the smallest of governments will have more and more demands placed on it by willing citizens. It will then grow to a point where it breaks and then it starts over in a more proper manner or perhaps turn into something even worse. Everything is cyclical.

The part I placed in bold is true and because of that truth there is nothing you can do to stop it. You cannot both say man is totally corruptible and then believe that we can live in a manner, with or without government, that will not have suffering of some sort.

Fishking said:

In a sense, yes. Unfortunately, there is no viable alternative. It is then to decide how much government is needed. Then again, this will almost always result in the growth of governmental power as even the smallest of governments will have more and more demands placed on it by willing citizens. It will then grow to a point where it breaks and then it starts over in a more proper manner or perhaps turn into something even worse. Everything is cyclical.

The part I placed in bold is true and because of that truth there is nothing you can do to stop it. You cannot both say man is totally corruptible and then believe that we can live in a manner, with or without government, that will not have suffering of some sort.

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Our system was fine until citizens united.

sookster said:

Our system was fine until citizens united.

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Except for slavery, Japanese internment camps, Vietnam, Korea, Guatemalan genocide, Native American genocide, bought politicians, pork spending bills, egregious national debt.....

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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As you correctly point out, it is not government that is evil but man. Government is part of the solution even where it is evil. Think about it.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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Which is big part of why socialism fails and communism leaves it's people in poverty.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

Click to expand...

Size does not determine the success or morality of government. Government size is dependent on need of government services. Also reducing government does not remove any political offices, it only reduces the amount of everyday peoples jobs who work for the government. And it shifts further costs on to people for government service's. And increasing unemployment by laying off employees who directly, or indirectly work for the government.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

Click to expand...

ok but how do you keep any thing else from filling the power vacume or failing that control any one or any organisation that has been corrupted by it own?

Why on earth is Korea on your list? I am proud that British forces fought alongside the US in this, the most just of wars. And, like the South Koreans whose liberty we preserved, very glad that we won.

jdog said:

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

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A small government contracts the power to a smaller number of people, leaving less scope for checks and balances and more opportunity for corruption. It might apply across fewer domains but they’re likely to be some of the most significant and dangerous ones. Also, reducing the size of government doesn’t eliminate the power, it just shifts it, typically in to the hands of a small number of private individuals, no less subject to abuse and corruption (arguably more so).

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the idea of smaller government but I don’t see it as a solution to this specific area of concern.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

Click to expand...

My philosophy is that people are basically good and organizations aren't. People have a conscience, a soul, a heart but organizations don't and will corrupt the people associated. Organizations lack all of that and exist to perpetuate themselves. They're like an alien being. Corrupted individuals are rewarded by the organization for helping the organization to continue to exist and grow.

Over the years, I've seen normal, decent men destroyed by organizations. They believe "it's for the greater good" but it never is. One of mankind's problems is the driving need to belong to the group, the club, the tribe and men will do things they know they shouldn't be doing. Most of the people in a lynch mob, whether it was a lynch mob in the 1830s or a lynch mob in the 2010s doesn't matter. The phenomena is the same. If individuals actually asked themselves what they're doing, they will often drift away.

The founders of our country and the authors of the Constitution recognized the danger of the government wand wrote a Constitution to allow the people to protect themselves from the government. So far, the organization, the government, is winning and suppressing the people and ignoring the Constitution.

Fishking said:

Except for slavery, Japanese internment camps, Vietnam, Korea, Guatemalan genocide, Native American genocide, bought politicians, pork spending bills, egregious national debt.....

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"Korea"?

So stopping the North Koreans was a bad thing now?

:roll:

The Japanese internment camps were a dumb idea but I can see why they were done. It was still an idiotic idea, mind; but it's not like people just woke up one day and said "let's put all the Asians in camps for no reason"

Hundreds of thousands of good Union men died ending slavery. That debt is paid.

The Native American genocide was just the product of two sides fighting a very nasty little brush war of quite some time, with massacres all around, only for one side to suddenly increase in power tremendously and finish things. It isn't pleasant, but it's not like war wasn't something that was exceedingly common in N. America before the first Euro showed up.

Fledermaus said:

How small should a Federal Government be?

Lets take a small country... Belize for example. How many people should that be?

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It's not how many people as much as it or the scope of its power and what counter powers are in place to temper it.

We have a problem when we have a legislative branch that makes laws for themselves than are different than the rest of us

We have a problem when our judiciary branch is politically appointed and beholden to the politicians that appoint them.

We have a problem with regulatory depts writing laws that are not being ratified by congress.

Patrickt said:

My philosophy is that people are basically good and organizations aren't. People have a conscience, a soul, a heart but organizations don't and will corrupt the people associated. Organizations lack all of that and exist to perpetuate themselves. They're like an alien being. Corrupted individuals are rewarded by the organization for helping the organization to continue to exist and grow.

Over the years, I've seen normal, decent men destroyed by organizations. They believe "it's for the greater good" but it never is. One of mankind's problems is the driving need to belong to the group, the club, the tribe and men will do things they know they shouldn't be doing. Most of the people in a lynch mob, whether it was a lynch mob in the 1830s or a lynch mob in the 2010s doesn't matter. The phenomena is the same. If individuals actually asked themselves what they're doing, they will often drift away.

The founders of our country and the authors of the Constitution recognized the danger of the government wand wrote a Constitution to allow the people to protect themselves from the government. So far, the organization, the government, is winning and suppressing the people and ignoring the Constitution.

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People can say the same thing about ideologies.
Funnyy,I don't feel suppressed.
What people are you talking about.
I have more freedom now than I did as a poor Creole child back in the 60's.

jdog said:

Government is evil by its very nature. Men are completely and totally corruptible, and airing power simply magnifies their ability and tendency to do evil.
It is impossible to have people in positions of power without them abusing that power and exploiting the people they are supposed to be serving.
NO man can resist the temptation to misuse power once it is obtained.

The only way to control government is to keep it as small as is possible. The bigger government gets, the more corrupt it becomes and the more it enslaves the people it was created to serve.

Click to expand...

Both the Left and the Right have ruled this country for decades and see where it has gotten us.

I say this country needs less ideologues and more Responsible Capitalists.

Really? Let's see. I remember buying raw milk for my kids. We made butter and cheese. Now, SWAT teams raid dairies and natural food stores looking for raw milk. Not being sold as pasteurized but clearly marked as raw milk. And, remember when the Constitution protected you from being tried twice for the same criminal act. No more, that's gone. Of course, the all powers not granted to the federal government are retained by the states and the citizens. That's gone, too. And, what if you want to travel to Mexico and take a cashiers check so you can by a condo or a car? Or, what if you're caught with cash when you're stopped by the police and it's taken as a civil seizure. No charges. No crime alleged. What if you have a business and want to have two restrooms, one for men and one for women? And what if your daughter is the class valedictorian and she wants to thank a god for her success? Or, what if you're a conservative group who wants the same tax breaks as a liberal group?

Of course, it depends on the freedom. If you value being free to close a bridge and prevent people from going home from work than you would be much more free now than in the past. On the other hand, if you'd like to be free to go home to your family after work, you're screwed. Or, if you want to be free to storm into a nice Sunday buffet, shouting obscenities and intimidating people then the government is your friend. On the other hand, if you'd like to take your grandmother to the Sunday brunch and enjoy a peaceful brunch with granny, you're screwed again.

So, tell me. What freedoms do you have now that you didn't have when you were younger? Why do you think our government is so determined to get rid of a Constitution that limits the government's power to a bit less than absolute? 1st Amendment, bad. 2nd Amendment, bad. 4th Amendment, bad. 5th Amendment, bad.

Can you remember when lying to the police wasn't a crime? I can. Now, if you witness a robbery, no the thugs who did it, and know what they and their friends will do if you tell the police, when you say, "I was in the bathroom and didn't see what happened," you've committed a felony in some places. You can argue that you should tell the police even if it means you and your family will die but you can't argue that you should have a choice. Oh, wait, choice is a bad thing, isn't it? Choice of school, choice of health insurance, choice of doctor, choice in what you eat, choice in housing, choice, well, choice is bad when you have a government who can tell you what you have to do.

When we live in a society where people are allowed unlimited individual wealth it's no surprise that the government is corrupt. You want to curb corruption in government put a cap on wealth.

blarg said:

ok but how do you keep any thing else from filling the power vacume or failing that control any one or any organisation that has been corrupted by it own?

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Good question,since most of the people here don't even give back to their communities(I started a thread 2 days ago asking how people here give back to their communities and not a single person answered).

As a few other posters have pointed out, government is not inherently evil. Any evil that results is caused by wicked humans.

As Washington noted, comparing government to fire, it is a useful tool but a fearsome master.

Constitutional governance in this country is a thing of the past.

blaxshep said:

When we live in a society where people are allowed unlimited individual wealth it's no surprise that the government is corrupt. You want to curb corruption in government put a cap on wealth.

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Spoken like someone who doesn't make the kind of money I do.
So you want the government to decide how much a business man like me can make.
Funny position to take for a so-called "libertarian".
Why punish Responsible Capitalists like me for the sins of others?

Thoreau72 said:

As a few other posters have pointed out, government is not inherently evil. Any evil that results is caused by wicked humans.

As Washington noted, comparing government to fire, it is a useful tool but a fearsome master.

Constitutional governance in this country is a thing of the past.

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Nothing can withstand the corruption of unlimited wealth, not even the constitution.

Verthaine said:

Spoken like someone who doesn't make the kind of money I do.
So you want the government to decide how much a business man like me can make.
Funny position to take for a so-called "libertarian".
Why punish Responsible Capitalists like me for the sins of others?

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You don't make near the money it takes to corrupt government, so don't worry.

There comes a point when people have far in excess of the wealth they can use. At that point retire and go away. Don't worry someone else will take your place.