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Am I A Libertarian?

RetiredUSN said:
I was told by a local radio host during a private discussion recently that I am more of a Libertarian, than conservative. I have known the guy for many years and he is a self proclaimed libertarian My reply to him was the usual sarcastic ........ "your nuts" We both laughed and parted ways shortly.
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All of this means nothing in terms of identifying your political affiliation if we don't have your views on the economy, regulation and money in politics.
 
No one aligns perfectly with any party's platform. Don't use the planks to see what you are. Be what you want to be and ignore the planks that offend you.
 
BrewerBob said:
Sounds like you lean more libertarian than conservative. That doesn't mean you agree with them across the board, of course.
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Call me ignorant. I was surprised to see so many libertarians on this site. Libertarian, libertarian-left, libertarian-right. Is it accurate to say, the percentage here is bigger than the average out there in the population?

I also wonder, between Hillary and Trump, would libertarians-left people vote for Hillary, and libertarian-right people vote for Trump?
 
Reed95 said:
Call me ignorant. I was surprised to see so many libertarians on this site. Libertarian, libertarian-left, libertarian-right. Is it accurate to say, the percentage here is bigger than the average out there in the population?

I also wonder, between Hillary and Trump, would libertarians-left people vote for Hillary, and libertarian-right people vote for Trump?
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Why would with of them vote for one or the other and not Johnson/Weld?

That question applies to anyone with a measurable IQ btw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
WCH said:
Not too far off from what Trump suggests. Is he a Libertarian?
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Trump is a big supporter of the Drug War. Imo, as long as someone is pro Drug War they are not a libertarian.
 
katzgar said:
if you want to know what a libertarian is read Ayn Rand. Most people that self define as such are not libertarians.
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Ayn Rand hated libertarians...
 
Fishking said:
I'm actually more confused by the new concept of Libertarian - Left as they seem to be a contradiction in terms to me.
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Left libertarianism is not a new concept. Libertarians of the 19th century were identified with the anarchist left. It was not until the mid-20th century did some of the fringe-Right adopt the libertarian label.
 
Geoist said:
Trump is a big supporter of the Drug War. Imo, as long as someone is pro Drug War they are not a libertarian.
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One doesn't have to be lock step with every issue but this is a big one.
 
Geoist said:
Trump is a big supporter of the Drug War. Imo, as long as someone is pro Drug War they are not a libertarian.
Click to expand...

He's a big supporter of stopping drugs and illegals at the border. Is that pro-WOD?

If so, guess I am also.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I was told by a local radio host during a private discussion recently that I am more of a Libertarian, than conservative. I have known the guy for many years and he is a self proclaimed libertarian My reply to him was the usual sarcastic ........ "your nuts" We both laughed and parted ways shortly.

After thinking about it for the past 6-7 days, I am thinking that he might be right?

My views:

Military:
Remove all non essential US troops from foreign soil.
Stop using US troops for security and nation building.
Renegotiate the policy that requires the US Navy's Mediterranean patrolling, and place the responsibility with the Euro's
No more nonsensical wars like Iraq.
No meddling in cases like Libya. egypt, etc. etc.

Immigration
Secure the borders......not necessarily a wall
Remove illegals that have committed crimes immediately.
Allow pathway to citizenship to those who have proven to be hard working, and crime free.
Inside track to citizenship for community service, or military service.
No immigration for non vetted individuals.

War On Drugs

Legalize marijuana
Assist addicts with getting cleaned up........whatever it takes.
No prison for nonviolent drug addicts/users for possession.
Assist the Mexican and Central American governments with cleaning out the cartels.

LBGT

Live your life the way you want, but I would appreciate a little modesty in public from people of any sexual preference when children are present.
I don't agree with a 4th grader having self determination on whether how he/she identifies sexually. Let them mature and see what shakes out.

Education

No bailouts for college loans, but I do agree with deferments during illness, job loss, or taking time off for assisting family members.
Work for school......exchange of community service for a certain amount of secondary education.
Bring back vocational courses in our schools.
Community vocational and remedial training for those in poverty or extended unemployment.........Detroit anyone?

2nd Amendment

No restrictions on open carry or concealed carry nationwide for non criminals.
AR15's are semi autos .....just like other semi autos........leave em alone.
Keep the automatic firearm regulations as they are.
Restore gun rights to nonviolent offenders........case by case.


Voting

Let the states decide, as long as they do not discriminate. Requiring ID cards is not discrimination in my opinion.

Police

99% of them are great people.
Some of them will make mistakes......sometimes tragic.
Police are often victims themselves of local governments who want the crime element cleaned up for political reasons. (Baltimore anyone?)

Privacy

The government has no business tracking banking or credit card transactions for non criminals.
The government has no right to snoop on citizens with no criminal background.
No cherry picking judges to serve warrants.
I do support "stop and frisk" of proven gang members and violent individuals.

So.......is my friend correct with his assumption?
Click to expand...

as a former libertarian, i'd say that yes, your views fit. it's a larger tent than other ideologies, and a little less exclusive.
 
Geoist said:
Left libertarianism is not a new concept. Libertarians of the 19th century were identified with the anarchist left. It was not until the mid-20th century did some of the fringe-Right adopt the libertarian label.
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Left in today's terms means big government, hence the issue.
 
Reed95 said:
Call me ignorant. I was surprised to see so many libertarians on this site. Libertarian, libertarian-left, libertarian-right. Is it accurate to say, the percentage here is bigger than the average out there in the population?
Click to expand...

I would say so. Your average citizen doesn't bother much with politics except when it comes time to vote, therefore they do not look too deeply into issues, ideologies, solutions, etc. Those who do are more likely to adopt "fringe" ideologies like libertarianism, socialism, etc.


I also wonder, between Hillary and Trump, would libertarians-left people vote for Hillary, and libertarian-right people vote for Trump?
Click to expand...

Under threat of torture, that is probably how the votes would go. :lol: Realistically, left-libertarians are more likely to vote for Jill Stein, right-libertarians will vote for Gary Johnson, but a good percent will either write-in or refuse to vote in protest.
 
Fishking said:
Left in today's terms means big government, hence the issue.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Most anarchists identify themselves as leftists (with the exception being "anarcho"-capitalists). I haven't met many anarchists who liked big government.
 
WCH said:
He's a big supporter of stopping drugs and illegals at the border. Is that pro-WOD?

If so, guess I am also.
Click to expand...

Has he made any statement in support of decriminalization or legalization? I haven't seen anything yet.
 
Fishking said:
Left in today's terms means big government, hence the issue.
Click to expand...

If you are interested in better understanding where left-libertarians are coming from, I recommend reading this.
 
Geoist said:
Not necessarily. Most anarchists identify themselves as leftists (with the exception being "anarcho"-capitalists). I haven't met many anarchists who liked big government.
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The only left anarchists that I've run into were the communist ones, which is also a little confusing. I guess what we have is a problem of definition. Obviously, Libertarianism isn't anarchy, but basically figuring out how to have as little government as possible and still run, especially at the federal level.

If you look at our nation's history it was more more Libertarian from the start and government power has grown over time, as is the natural cycle. To me, this puts Libertarianism in the conservative branch, which would fall under the right. Liberal would be left and would be those who prefer change and change usually denotes a grown of government power. I've not seen much for examples of the government giving up power once they had it.

I think that's the problem we're having here.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I was told by a local radio host during a private discussion recently that I am more of a Libertarian, than conservative. I have known the guy for many years and he is a self proclaimed libertarian My reply to him was the usual sarcastic ........ "your nuts" We both laughed and parted ways shortly.

After thinking about it for the past 6-7 days, I am thinking that he might be right?

My views:

Military:
Remove all non essential US troops from foreign soil.
Stop using US troops for security and nation building.
Renegotiate the policy that requires the US Navy's Mediterranean patrolling, and place the responsibility with the Euro's
No more nonsensical wars like Iraq.
No meddling in cases like Libya. egypt, etc. etc.

Immigration
Secure the borders......not necessarily a wall
Remove illegals that have committed crimes immediately.
Allow pathway to citizenship to those who have proven to be hard working, and crime free.
Inside track to citizenship for community service, or military service.
No immigration for non vetted individuals.

War On Drugs

Legalize marijuana
Assist addicts with getting cleaned up........whatever it takes.
No prison for nonviolent drug addicts/users for possession.
Assist the Mexican and Central American governments with cleaning out the cartels.

LBGT

Live your life the way you want, but I would appreciate a little modesty in public from people of any sexual preference when children are present.
I don't agree with a 4th grader having self determination on whether how he/she identifies sexually. Let them mature and see what shakes out.

Education

No bailouts for college loans, but I do agree with deferments during illness, job loss, or taking time off for assisting family members.
Work for school......exchange of community service for a certain amount of secondary education.
Bring back vocational courses in our schools.
Community vocational and remedial training for those in poverty or extended unemployment.........Detroit anyone?

2nd Amendment

No restrictions on open carry or concealed carry nationwide for non criminals.
AR15's are semi autos .....just like other semi autos........leave em alone.
Keep the automatic firearm regulations as they are.
Restore gun rights to nonviolent offenders........case by case.


Voting

Let the states decide, as long as they do not discriminate. Requiring ID cards is not discrimination in my opinion.

Police

99% of them are great people.
Some of them will make mistakes......sometimes tragic.
Police are often victims themselves of local governments who want the crime element cleaned up for political reasons. (Baltimore anyone?)

Privacy

The government has no business tracking banking or credit card transactions for non criminals.
The government has no right to snoop on citizens with no criminal background.
No cherry picking judges to serve warrants.
I do support "stop and frisk" of proven gang members and violent individuals.

So.......is my friend correct with his assumption?
Click to expand...

Way less complicated than all that. Do you believe "I got mine screw you" in all public policy question? If so you are a Libertarian.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I was told by a local radio host during a private discussion recently that I am more of a Libertarian, than conservative. I have known the guy for many years and he is a self proclaimed libertarian My reply to him was the usual sarcastic ........ "your nuts" We both laughed and parted ways shortly.

After thinking about it for the past 6-7 days, I am thinking that he might be right?

My views:

Military:
Remove all non essential US troops from foreign soil.
Stop using US troops for security and nation building.
Renegotiate the policy that requires the US Navy's Mediterranean patrolling, and place the responsibility with the Euro's
No more nonsensical wars like Iraq.
No meddling in cases like Libya. egypt, etc. etc.

Immigration
Secure the borders......not necessarily a wall
Remove illegals that have committed crimes immediately.
Allow pathway to citizenship to those who have proven to be hard working, and crime free.
Inside track to citizenship for community service, or military service.
No immigration for non vetted individuals.

War On Drugs

Legalize marijuana
Assist addicts with getting cleaned up........whatever it takes.
No prison for nonviolent drug addicts/users for possession.
Assist the Mexican and Central American governments with cleaning out the cartels.

LBGT

Live your life the way you want, but I would appreciate a little modesty in public from people of any sexual preference when children are present.
I don't agree with a 4th grader having self determination on whether how he/she identifies sexually. Let them mature and see what shakes out.

Education

No bailouts for college loans, but I do agree with deferments during illness, job loss, or taking time off for assisting family members.
Work for school......exchange of community service for a certain amount of secondary education.
Bring back vocational courses in our schools.
Community vocational and remedial training for those in poverty or extended unemployment.........Detroit anyone?

2nd Amendment

No restrictions on open carry or concealed carry nationwide for non criminals.
AR15's are semi autos .....just like other semi autos........leave em alone.
Keep the automatic firearm regulations as they are.
Restore gun rights to nonviolent offenders........case by case.


Voting

Let the states decide, as long as they do not discriminate. Requiring ID cards is not discrimination in my opinion.

Police

99% of them are great people.
Some of them will make mistakes......sometimes tragic.
Police are often victims themselves of local governments who want the crime element cleaned up for political reasons. (Baltimore anyone?)

Privacy

The government has no business tracking banking or credit card transactions for non criminals.
The government has no right to snoop on citizens with no criminal background.
No cherry picking judges to serve warrants.
I do support "stop and frisk" of proven gang members and violent individuals.

So.......is my friend correct with his assumption?
Click to expand...

I can't answer because you addressed only the social side of the equation. You said nothing about the cost of government, the size of government, the scope of income redistribution, regulation versus laws, debt, paying bills.

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I'm not a social psychopath like some today but I am very much in favor of people minding their own business. I listened to a speech from Roger MacBride in 1972 and was very impressed. He spoke at our university and the small audience was packed with women from the Women's Study department there to destroy MacBride. He did extremely well and even had some of the women giving him positive nods.

But, then our libertarian party was taken over by loonies. The gun nuts were demanding that all weapons possessed by the military should be available to citizens. And, the pro-drug people wanted all drugs legalized, which I didn't disagree with, but they also wanted junkies to be eligible for welfare, which I did disagree with. So, I tended to forget the Libertarians.

Now, what do we have left. We have two liberal parties running two Democrat crooks for president. It's Libertarian or what?
 
RetiredUSN said:
I was told by a local radio host during a private discussion recently that I am more of a Libertarian, than conservative. I have known the guy for many years and he is a self proclaimed libertarian My reply to him was the usual sarcastic ........ "your nuts" We both laughed and parted ways shortly.

After thinking about it for the past 6-7 days, I am thinking that he might be right?

My views:

Military:
Remove all non essential US troops from foreign soil.
Stop using US troops for security and nation building.
Renegotiate the policy that requires the US Navy's Mediterranean patrolling, and place the responsibility with the Euro's
No more nonsensical wars like Iraq.
No meddling in cases like Libya. egypt, etc. etc.

Immigration
Secure the borders......not necessarily a wall
Remove illegals that have committed crimes immediately.
Allow pathway to citizenship to those who have proven to be hard working, and crime free.
Inside track to citizenship for community service, or military service.
No immigration for non vetted individuals.

War On Drugs

Legalize marijuana
Assist addicts with getting cleaned up........whatever it takes.
No prison for nonviolent drug addicts/users for possession.
Assist the Mexican and Central American governments with cleaning out the cartels.

LBGT

Live your life the way you want, but I would appreciate a little modesty in public from people of any sexual preference when children are present.
I don't agree with a 4th grader having self determination on whether how he/she identifies sexually. Let them mature and see what shakes out.

Education

No bailouts for college loans, but I do agree with deferments during illness, job loss, or taking time off for assisting family members.
Work for school......exchange of community service for a certain amount of secondary education.
Bring back vocational courses in our schools.
Community vocational and remedial training for those in poverty or extended unemployment.........Detroit anyone?

2nd Amendment

No restrictions on open carry or concealed carry nationwide for non criminals.
AR15's are semi autos .....just like other semi autos........leave em alone.
Keep the automatic firearm regulations as they are.
Restore gun rights to nonviolent offenders........case by case.


Voting

Let the states decide, as long as they do not discriminate. Requiring ID cards is not discrimination in my opinion.

Police

99% of them are great people.
Some of them will make mistakes......sometimes tragic.
Police are often victims themselves of local governments who want the crime element cleaned up for political reasons. (Baltimore anyone?)

Privacy

The government has no business tracking banking or credit card transactions for non criminals.
The government has no right to snoop on citizens with no criminal background.
No cherry picking judges to serve warrants.
I do support "stop and frisk" of proven gang members and violent individuals.

So.......is my friend correct with his assumption?
Click to expand...

First off you misunderstand the political spectrum. Libertarians are MORE conservative than Republicans. You are definitely more libertarian than Republican in your views.
The political spectrum is measured in terms of the balance between government and individual powers and rights.
The basis of libertarianism is the basic belief that every man is free to live his life as he pleases so long as he does not impose on the rights of others to do the same.
The majority of the forefathers with the exception of the Federalists were basically libertarians. Another tenant of libertarianism is the anti aggression principal in which libertarians believe that no man should be deprived of any rights or property by use of force. That is the reason most government is viewed as undesirable by libertarians...

Most libertarians are former Republican who have evolved in their education and abilities to engage in rational thought.
 
WCH said:
He's a big supporter of stopping drugs and illegals at the border. Is that pro-WOD?

If so, guess I am also.
Click to expand...

Same here. I am absolutely anti-drug and anti-illegal. I don't support the current WOD because I don't think we're even fighting a war, but need to.
 
Geoist said:
I would say so. Your average citizen doesn't bother much with politics except when it comes time to vote, therefore they do not look too deeply into issues, ideologies, solutions, etc. Those who do are more likely to adopt "fringe" ideologies like libertarianism, socialism, etc.




Under threat of torture, that is probably how the votes would go. :lol: Realistically, left-libertarians are more likely to vote for Jill Stein, right-libertarians will vote for Gary Johnson, but a good percent will either write-in or refuse to vote in protest.
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Thank you for your post. You did give me some insight. It's very helpful.

This thread prompted me to take a look into the Libertarian topic. Some questions arise. With your core values of small government and rights of individuals, isn't it a little hard to reconcile it with what the Green Party stands for? Despite their abstract values, the "green" part would definitely require big government involvements. Isn't it so?
 
Fishking said:
The only left anarchists that I've run into were the communist ones,
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Anarcho-syndicalists are pretty common, and I think they would call themselves communists (but they are not Marxists). Anarchism is pretty diverse, including anti-state-socialist-types, individual anarchists, free-market anarchists, mutualists, etc.


which is also a little confusing.
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You are not the first to be confused by it. I guess we can thank our mainstream media and education system for that confusion. :lol:

When we think of communists, we usually think of the pro-state types (e.g. Stalinists and Maoists). But you could pretty much divide the 19th century European political left between the anti-state anarchists (e.g. mutualists, anarcho-syndicalists, etc.) and the pro-state socialists (e.g. Marxists). Although left anarchists agreed with some of Marx's analysis of society's problems, they disagreed with the remedy. They know state-sponsored "communism" would only create more problem for the people (and sure enough, it did). They believe in achieving their goals through voluntary and decentralized means.

I guess what we have is a problem of definition. Obviously, Libertarianism isn't anarchy, but basically figuring out how to have as little government as possible and still run, especially at the federal level.
Click to expand...

There is a common saying, "not every libertarian is an anarchist, but every anarchist is a libertarian." While more mainstream libertarians may believe a federal government can be legitimized under libertarian principles, there are a good number who believe in decentralizing the system down to states or even cities. Left libertarians are especially advocates for this as they argue decentralization generally benefits democracy.
 
Green Hornet said:
Way less complicated than all that. Do you believe "I got mine screw you" in all public policy question? If so you are a Libertarian.
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As opposed to the liberal we're taking everything from you, including your rights and freedoms, for the good of everyone else public policy?
 
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