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The Millennial Mind

It doesn't fit me. And I tend to have all different friends who have different beliefs. They don't all fit your viewpoint, but that's what a lot of analysts tell me a millennial is and I get pretty angry when people tell me that is what a millennial is.

Yeah, the fact that Millennials have gotten that label is sort of where I'm coming from.

Before I retired; and that was at 50, a lot of the people I dealt with were Millennial business owners, manages and others, who were the very worst sort tempremental people I had ever had dealings with since 1977! They were bratty, inexperienced, demanding, and expected me to be subservient to them; and I was a looong time Teamster who was very professional and knew my trade extremely well: IO couldn't believe had some twenty years had changed people in such a radical way, so I thought I'd ask a bit about it. It seems however, by what you say that I;m not alone in my assessment. Yourself aside.
 
That's great sounding bull**** and all but you also support making others pay heavy taxes because you think the money is going to a cause you find worthy. That's immoral and selfish as hell.

Let's be honest here, you SHOULD be for a lower tax system with a voluntary "pay your fair share system" so that people like yourself would be free to pay what you deemed was "Fair" without forcing your beliefs on others. (But we know that forcing others to heed your whims is part and parcel of your brand of "Caring".)

Yes, having an established society that provides for human basics, how selfish.
 
I don't think we're self-centered at all.

As we slowly climb our way out of the recession that decimated us financially at the start of our adulthood, we're still choosing not to move too far from home.

You know why?

Because we're worried about our Boomer parents starving when they're too old to work because most of them still haven't planned for retirement at all, spending every penny they make. We've been planning since day 1. Both for our parents and ourselves.

I think we have a general distrust of the establishment, where older people hold the power. And yes, apart from our families, we do tend to close rank.

But that's because we've learned that the older generations tend to think of us as free labor and whipping posts.

Within our own ranks, we give quite freely. We're the Kickstarter generation. We help people we don't know with medical bills, unemployment slumps, business ideas, whatever they need. Check out Tumblr sometime.

We don't give to the system that plunged us into poverty. We give to each other.

Don't worry about your boomer parents, even though some of them haven't saved for retirement they'll get SS and you won't. :2razz:

Anywho, I got 3 millennials oldest one is close to described except she didn't stay close to home and she ain't worried about us. :lol:

Younger 2 moved away too and like their older sibling have a general distrust of the establishment, but they are much more self-centered.

Fortunately they were all in college when the recession hit and they personally weren't affected by it as they all found good employment out of school and they all started out in the world debt free.

They don't have boomer parents either.

Edit to add:

I will say one thing different with them is they are in absolutely no hurry to get married and start a family, which is considerably different.
 
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If you feel like you want to be in a society where taxes are effectively voluntary, go live in pretty much any failed/failing African state, and see how you enjoy it (before you mention 'Greece' or some other tired cherrypicked right-wing talking point; tax evasion was rampant there as was systemic corruption set to a backdrop of having no sovereign currency). Personally I prefer to live in a functional prosperous society which recognizes that taxes are a necessary requisite for society and prosperity.

I want to live in a society that doesn't say stupid crap like the government has to take your property without consent to function.
 
Don't worry about your boomer parents, even though some of them haven't saved for retirement they'll get SS and you won't. :2razz:

Anywho, I got 3 millennials oldest one is close to described except she didn't stay close to home and she ain't worried about us. :lol:

Younger 2 moved away too and like their older sibling have a general distrust of the establishment, but they are much more self-centered.

Fortunately they were all in college when the recession hit and they personally weren't affected by it as they all found good employment out of school and they all started out in the world debt free.

They don't have boomer parents either.

I stayed close until my dad died; that was actually my main reason for moving back to MN. His situation was a bit different. It wasn't that he failed to plan. Rather, he lost everything getting custody of me. He'd never have asked in a million years, but I just didn't want to leave him there with no family.

Since then, I've moved across an entire ocean. I was also one of the lucky ones who didn't get hit. I delayed college and stuck 300 bucks into a venture. Turned out to be the smartest thing I ever did!

And I hauled as many not-so-lucky Millenials out of the hole as I could.
 
Sure does. But even as they age, each gen is different.

I think we're starting out with something good that the Boomers lacked: seriousness.

I think anger also very much describes our generation.

Anger at injustice, corruption, absurd traditionalism, stasis, inertia, oppression and all the other toxic mechanisms of an unsustainable and repugnant status quo.

Most positively, it is an activist's anger that galvanizes and motivates, rather than seethes and festers into impotent resentment.
 
I want to live in a society that doesn't say stupid crap like the government has to take your property without consent to function.

I'm not sure what your idea of 'functional' is, but I know of no modern society that is meaningfully functional which doesn't involve some mode of taxation.

Further, to live in a country/society is to abide by its rules and social contract; you can work to change them, but in the interim, you are beholden to these things. If you don't want to abide, then you're free to leave.
 
Anout the only fair, or probably fair generalisations which can be made about millenials compared to older generations would be that they're more inclusive/accepting of marginalised groups, more comfortable and engaged with technology and social media, and less enamoured with unregulated capitalism. The generalisations obviously are not absolute; in each case we're talking about a difference of maybe 10-20 percentage points.
 
So, I’ve noticed on DP that a lot of posters seem to be Millennials; aged about 25 to say 40… somewhere about there. Having said that, in my experience with Millennials, here on the forum and out in the world, I find them to be much more aggressive, well educated, very self- centered, which I find troubling, but politically more of a libertarian sort of crowd, whatever Libertriansim is. That is to say that they do not appear to me to be of a more traditional political mind as say the Baby Boomers, like myself and the WWII generation.

I’m interested in hearing from those of you Millennials, and from others on these observations.

Thoughts?

Are you kidding, FFS? I don't know what group my parents were/are in, but they are THE worst "ME ME ME ME ME, MINE!" group of people I have ever seen. I find the young folks of today seem self-centered, but they tend to vote and coalesce around very not-self-centered ideals, like equality for others especially as seen in the SSM debates. So yes, individually I can see how one would think they are self centered, but unlike the group my parents' belong(ed) in which was the generation before Baby Boomers, they do care about others. Not so much the old white crowd that's thankfully dying off.
 
I'm not sure what your idea of 'functional' is, but I know of no modern society that is meaningfully functional which doesn't involve some mode of taxation.

Further, to live in a country/society is to abide by its rules and social contract; you can work to change them, but in the interim, you are beholden to these things. If you don't want to abide, then you're free to leave.

Your view is essentially arguing that it is necessary to sanction the government to steal so they can protect people from theft. You might as well say creating a rape agency that rapes is necessary so that the rape agency can prevent rape. Well yeah, the rape agency rapes, but if they didn't rape they couldn't prevent rape.
 
I stayed close until my dad died; that was actually my main reason for moving back to MN. His situation was a bit different. It wasn't that he failed to plan. Rather, he lost everything getting custody of me. He'd never have asked in a million years, but I just didn't want to leave him there with no family.

Since then, I've moved across an entire ocean. I was also one of the lucky ones who didn't get hit. I delayed college and stuck 300 bucks into a venture. Turned out to be the smartest thing I ever did!

And I hauled as many not-so-lucky Millenials out of the hole as I could.

Why? Just curious.
 
Your view is essentially arguing that that sanctioning the government to necessary so they can protect people from theft. You might as well say creating a rape agency that rapes is necessary so that the rape agency can prevent rape.

My view is that when you do not have a working system of compelled contributions (i.e. taxation) you cannot have a functioning governance or society; rather you end up with something not unlike a failed African state, which is far worse for everyone involved than getting docked a % of income/wealth. Again, if you can think of a working modern state that does not feature taxation, I would be interested in knowing about it.
 
Yeah, the fact that Millennials have gotten that label is sort of where I'm coming from.

Before I retired; and that was at 50, a lot of the people I dealt with were Millennial business owners, manages and others, who were the very worst sort tempremental people I had ever had dealings with since 1977! They were bratty, inexperienced, demanding, and expected me to be subservient to them; and I was a looong time Teamster who was very professional and knew my trade extremely well: IO couldn't believe had some twenty years had changed people in such a radical way, so I thought I'd ask a bit about it. It seems however, by what you say that I;m not alone in my assessment. Yourself aside.

I guess it depends on where you work, but don't mistake people in their late 30s/40s to be millennials. My boss is probably 35 or so and he doesn't consider himself to be a millennial and he is a big time conspiracy theorist who is afraid for his life every time the stock market drops or any company cuts jobs. So there's the opposite of what you just described haha.
 
My view is that when you do not have a working system of compelled contributions (i.e. taxation) you cannot have a functioning governance or society; rather you end up with something not unlike a failed African state, which is far worse for everyone involved than getting docked a % of income/wealth. Again, if you can think of a working modern state that does not feature taxation, I would be interested in knowing about it.

I know your view and I openly mocked it as absurd.
 
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I know your view and I openly mocked it as absurd. A government doing the very act it is sanctioned to protect people from theft shouldn't be involved itself in theft. This is actually one of biggest issues with government in general though. Everything they don't want the people doing they do.

I don't see what's absurd about choosing the best of several options, which is essentially my perspective.

In order for government to protect against theft and provide for all of the functions expected of it, it needs resources. Unfortunately human nature being what it is, these resources cannot be simply provided on a voluntary basis; again, I do not know of any kind of historical stable long-term government or society that was predicated on voluntary contributions, nevermind a modern one.

What is truly absurd is expecting government to fulfill its functions without the inputs that are indispensable and requisite to that. Given a choice between living in modern democracy at the cost of a fraction of my income, versus living in an anarchy amidst warlords (human nature hates a vacuum, just like natural law), or a corrupt, dysfunctional and ultimately powerless state which lacks the capacity to uphold rule of law and infrastructure which in turn makes that income possible in the first place, I will choose the former every time.

Overall I'd say the vast majority of people are of the same opinion and their habit of living in functioning states is a pretty strong testament to that. I'm sure there's plenty their governments do that they'd rather they didn't, and that in the case of some governmental/societal formations anarchy is preferable (like say Soviet totalitarianism), but as a rule they are immeasurably preferable to having no government, or a toothless one which is tantamount to anarchy.
 
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I don't see what's absurd about choosing the best of several options, which is essentially my perspective.

In order for government to protect against theft and provide for all of the functions expected of it, it needs resources. Unfortunately human nature being what it is, these resources cannot be simply provided on a voluntary basis; again, I do not know of any kind of historical stable long-term government or society that was predicated on voluntary contributions, nevermind a modern one.

Why in the world do you believe that? Do you buy the goods and services you want from stories or do you have a habit of taking them without paying? It's silly to suggest that all of society can function on a voluntary basis and yet government can't get even gets it's funds voluntarily. It's like all of society is civilized and people want to work together generally speaking until the government comes along and provides them roads. Then again, I imagine plenty of people have no willingness to pay for stuff they don't want, but then, we get into the problem of how it is right to force them to pay for it anyway. It basically becomes the argument of I want this and it doesn't matter what you think, which is all around crap.

What is truly absurd is expecting government to fulfill its functions without the inputs that are indispensable and requisite to that. Given a choice between living in modern democracy at the cost of a fraction of my income, versus living in an anarchy amidst warlords (human nature hates a vacuum, just like natural law), or a corrupt, dysfunctional and ultimately powerless state which lacks the capacity to uphold rule of law and infrastructure which in turn makes that income possible in the first place, I will choose the former every time.

A fraction of your income? What do you consider a fraction? The government taxes everything from the products you buy to your home and investments, and then for some reason taxes your income on top of that. How many times do you think I'm taxed for the same income earned?

And don't even get me started on the warlord logic and how flawed that is. The difference between the government and a warlord is the difference between a beach ball and a marble.

Overall I'd say the vast majority of people are of the same opinion and their habit of living in functioning states is a pretty strong testament to that. I'm sure there's plenty their governments do that they'd rather they didn't, and that in the case of some governmental/societal formations anarchy is preferable (like say Soviet totalitarianism), but as a rule they are immeasurably preferable to having no government, or a toothless one which is tantamount to anarchy.

What does the word functional mean to you? You see, I imagine a person like yourself would define that word very differently than I would.
 
Because those causes have been proven successful the world over and yield better general outcomes for people (take a look at HDI, health, education and quality of life statistics sometime). What's truly immoral and selfish is the view of those who think that taxes and regulations should be abolished for the sake of their wallets despite the immense cost to society and consequent suffering of others and marginal net/quality of life benefit for themselves. The choice between incrementing taxation on a small % of the population (including myself) which still makes more than enough to live comfortably vs letting them retain more wealth to buy another gold plated house so that systemic inequalities of opportunity with respect to healthcare and education can persist or worsen is an easy one to make.



If you feel like you want to be in a society where taxes are effectively voluntary, go live in pretty much any failed/failing African state, and see how you enjoy it (before you mention 'Greece' or some other tired cherrypicked right-wing talking point; tax evasion was rampant there as was systemic corruption set to a backdrop of having no sovereign currency). Personally I prefer to live in a functional, empathetic society which recognizes that taxes are a necessary requisite for society, long term stability and prosperity.

See, here we go, you spout your is the superior POV and thus you are morally correct in lowering the welath of those you deem "undeserving".
 
Why in the world do you believe that? Do you buy the goods and services you want from stories or do you have a habit of taking them without paying? It's silly to suggest that all of society can function on a voluntary basis and yet government can't get even gets it's funds voluntarily. It's like all of society is civilized and people want to work together generally speaking until the government comes along and provides them roads. Then again, I imagine plenty of people have no willingness to pay for stuff they don't want, but then, we get into the problem of how it is right to force them to pay for it anyway. It basically becomes the argument of I want this and it doesn't matter what you think, which is all around crap.

Because I have never known a long term, stable society predicated on voluntary taxation or contributions or otherwise a wholly voluntary basis (to be clear, I have never made the claim such a voluntary society could work either; maybe on a very micro scale such as a kibbutz or commune, but beyond that, forget it). I have repeatedly asked for examples of such, and you have failed on every occasion to provide them.

If such things worked, then huge swathes of Africa would be living in relative prosperity rather than violence, instability and desperate poverty. The fact is that there will always be people who will do as they please and take, murder and steal for their own benefit without regard for the lives, happiness or well-being of others, and there needs to be a rule of law to regulate and marginalize this behaviour. The non-aggression principle that Anarchcaps and the like love to tout is a lie and complete fiction; enough people are assholes, egoists, sociopaths and psychopaths of various stripes that it just doesn't work. Anarchy and voluntarism feature the same deluded optimism concerning human nature and humanity as communism, and both fail utterly for the same fundamental reason.

A fraction of your income? What do you consider a fraction?

Anything less than 100% is fractional. Personally I don't have an 'ideal' number for a tax rate of my bracket to throw out off the top of my head if that's what you're looking for; that's more the purview of specialized economists than kneejerk napkin estimations. Approximately though, it would not impede my quality of life in a material way (i.e. I can comfortably afford the necessities, entertainment, provide for retirement assuming a reasonable timeline and averaged rate of return, and some luxury goods and services after tax).

The government taxes everything from the products you buy to your home and investments, and then for some reason taxes your income on top of that. How many times do you think I'm taxed for the same income earned?

I wouldn't know.

And don't even get me started on the warlord logic and how flawed that is. The difference between the government and a warlord is the difference between a beach ball and a marble.

You're right, they're not comparable: feuding warlords create instability, guarantee no rights and freedoms, routinely seize, violate and destroy people's lives and property without due process, feature inconsistent if any rule of law, and stem from power vacuums, such as that created by an ineffectual and powerless government. By contrast most modern democratic governments guarantee rights and freedoms, have generally consistent rule of law, and foster prosperous societies on the whole.

What does the word functional mean to you? You see, I imagine a person like yourself would define that word very differently than I would.

Probably, which is why I asked you first.


See, here we go, you spout your is the superior POV and thus you are morally correct in lowering the welath of those you deem "undeserving".

Evidence based POV with the objective of optimizing outcomes for the greatest number of people.
 
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So, I’ve noticed on DP that a lot of posters seem to be Millennials; aged about 25 to say 40… somewhere about there. Having said that, in my experience with Millennials, here on the forum and out in the world, I find them to be much more aggressive, well educated, very self- centered, which I find troubling, but politically more of a libertarian sort of crowd, whatever Libertriansim is. That is to say that they do not appear to me to be of a more traditional political mind as say the Baby Boomers, like myself and the WWII generation.

I’m interested in hearing from those of you Millennials, and from others on these observations.

Thoughts?

How did they get better educated in schools and universities unpleasant opinions are discouraged as topics of learning?
 
So, I’ve noticed on DP that a lot of posters seem to be Millennials; aged about 25 to say 40… somewhere about there. Having said that, in my experience with Millennials, here on the forum and out in the world, I find them to be much more aggressive, well educated, very self- centered, which I find troubling, but politically more of a libertarian sort of crowd, whatever Libertriansim is. That is to say that they do not appear to me to be of a more traditional political mind as say the Baby Boomers, like myself and the WWII generation.

I’m interested in hearing from those of you Millennials, and from others on these observations.

Thoughts?

I don't actually find them to be very well educated. Oh sure, they have plenty of book learning, but not much actual real world experience. They know things, they just have no clue how to actually apply any of it. And they are aggressive because they grew up on the Internet where you don't have to be responsible for your words, you don't get punched in the nose for being a complete asshole, like you would in the real world. And self-centered? That comes from decades of liberal "everyone gets a trophy" nonsense. Even the experts are now recognizing the horrors that those kind of self-esteem programs have wrought on society.
 
i work with a lot of millenniials, and they are helpful, polite, and highly skilled. i'm a Gen Xer, and i don't notice much difference between generations in the workplace. the concept of "generations" mostly seems to be just one more way for humans to engage in tribalism, as we so love to do. it's so much easier to be "us" when there's an easily definable "them."

I do. I work with people aged roughly early to mid 20s through early 60s and you can absolutely tell a difference between the two. Granted, it's a small sample size, but the older people have a strong work ethic and the young ones have essentially none. They want to breeze by and they think that I owe them a living, whether they work for it or not. Now it's been a long time since I was that age, but I never acted like that, nor did anyone I knew back then.
 
Yes, having an established society that provides for human basics, how selfish.

When life becomes too easy, people become lazy. When you don't have to actually work to survive, lots of people don't want to work. And when everything comes from the government wrapped in a big red bow, people think that just waking up in the morning is all they have to do to deserve things.

Your way is ruining this country. Congrats.
 
I do. I work with people aged roughly early to mid 20s through early 60s and you can absolutely tell a difference between the two. Granted, it's a small sample size, but the older people have a strong work ethic and the young ones have essentially none. They want to breeze by and they think that I owe them a living, whether they work for it or not. Now it's been a long time since I was that age, but I never acted like that, nor did anyone I knew back then.

As someone in management, I don't really see millennials as lazy. They just expect more for less.

Worker #1: Mid 50's. Works hard. Keeps mouth shut. Follows the rules.
Worker #2: Mid 20's. Works "well," but expects more reward for less work. Very social..can't keep her mouth shut. Follows rules she only believes in.

...and they're hopelessly addicted to their cell phones. God, we've had to fire so many people for the sole reason they cannot stay off their cell phones.
 
I do. I work with people aged roughly early to mid 20s through early 60s and you can absolutely tell a difference between the two. Granted, it's a small sample size, but the older people have a strong work ethic and the young ones have essentially none. They want to breeze by and they think that I owe them a living, whether they work for it or not. Now it's been a long time since I was that age, but I never acted like that, nor did anyone I knew back then.

most of the millennials i work with are trying desperately to get ahead because they are sitting under crushing debt from school and are trying to get free of it so that they can start their lives. i suppose it depends on your profession and place of employment.
 
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