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Unpaid Internships Are a Way for Companies to Exploit Young People

radcen said:
Internships should be barred from being free. Simply put, there are too many companies that abuse the privilege.

Companies DO get something out of it as well, and as such should pay at least minimum wage.
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Anybody that is being taken advantage of, is allowing that to happen.
 
Mason66 said:
The person has to prove themselves just like in anything else.

It is assumed that the graduate from college knows nothing, and rightly so.

After the person can prove they can handle the job, then yes sometimes it turns into a paid position.

If the worker doesn't have a problem with it, why should you?
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I'm free to call employers out on their ****. If they're good enough to be working on your job then they're good enough to be paid. If you don't feel they are good enough to take on then how about not accepting their labor at all.
 
Mason66 said:
It sounds like these few youngsters didn't learn what they needed to learn the first time.

Why didn't they use their experience to seek out other opportunities?

And please don't say they are not out there.
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The best way to negotiate someone is to make them believe it is their fault that they are in unfavorable circumstances. Tens of thousands of young Americans graduating with student loan debt must be a wet dream for greedy business owners. This is not an economy, it is a pyramid scheme.

Mason66 said:
Anybody that is being taken advantage of, is allowing that to happen.
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Right, you're a slave to what you don't know. I'm sure that one day we'll all look back and laugh about it... not. :roll:
 
Celebrity said:
According to your logic, we should pay people to go to college. Sounds like a great entitlement program which will stimulate the economy instead of forcing debt down the throats of younger people.
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That is not my logic, that is the logic of the other poster I was answering.

I asked him how much a person should be paid to go to college. They are after all using their time to learn, just as in an internship.

I don't see a difference.
 
Celebrity said:
According to your logic, we should pay people to go to college. Sounds like a great entitlement program which will stimulate the economy instead of forcing debt down the throats of younger people.
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That's a little silly. No one is forcing debt down anyone's throat.
 
Celebrity said:
Why are unpaid internships illegal? They are illegal because there is a contract between the employer and the intern. What is the difference between volunteering and interning? According to wikidiff,




Robert Reich explains why internships should be for the benefit of the intern, not the employer.
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i am sorry

i missed the part where the interns have guns to their heads, and are being whipped into compliance by their masters

people have choices....they can choose to go into a field where experience is a must, and then decide how they are going to get that experience

or they can go into a different field altogether

do you think the big banks on wall street care if they have interns?

or major law firms?

getting an internship at a prestigious law firm is a boon to the student, not the firm

sure the firm gets a non pay employee for a couple of months....a gopher for the most part

the students gets a NICE letter of recommendation and a hell of a reference to put on their resume

win/win

all choices....isnt being free to make them great
 
gdgyva said:
i am sorry

i missed the part where the interns have guns to their heads, and are being whipped into compliance by their masters

people have choices....they can choose to go into a field where experience is a must, and then decide how they are going to get that experience

or they can go into a different field altogether

do you think the big banks on wall street care if they have interns?

or major law firms?

getting an internship at a prestigious law firm is a boon to the student, not the firm

sure the firm gets a non pay employee for a couple of months....a gopher for the most part

the students gets a NICE letter of recommendation and a hell of a reference to put on their resume

win/win

all choices....isnt being free to make them great
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Here's something to consider: if the interns refuse employment, how do they stand to benefit? Perhaps we should just let them starve? Oh that's right, they have to accept employment because the opportunities for sucksess include: 1) kissing ass and 2) taking names.
 
Henrin said:
I'm free to call employers out on their ****. If they're good enough to be working on your job then they're good enough to be paid. If you don't feel they are good enough to take on then how about not accepting their labor at all.
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How do you know they are good enough until they start working?
 
Celebrity said:
No, it's not, because according to the Department of Labor, that would be illegal. Call it what it is: volunteer work, not an internship.
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Well, DOL has certain rules and yeah, calling an internship volunteer work is one way to get around the rules though that trick is mostly used by non-profits. Private businesses...not so much.

But...do you know who is exempt from those DOL rules? Yep...lawmakers including the President. No surprise there, eh?

Which is more important, possibly not destroying the market or making sure that workers' lives are definitely not destroyed by providing a livable wage?
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LOL!!

Destroy the market and you'll only make sure that NOBODY earns a wage...livable or not.
 
Celebrity said:
Here's something to consider: if the interns refuse employment, how do they stand to benefit? Perhaps we should just let them starve? Oh that's right, they have to accept employment because the opportunities for sucksess include: 1) kissing ass and 2) taking names.
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no one is forcing them to be an intern

and sorry but kissing ass is a corporate must....especially just starting out

so are long hours, crappy pay, and starting at the bottom

welcome to the world of business....

dont like it....start your own damn business, and be your own damn boss

until then, those with the gold make the rules....or didnt you learn that lesson when you were young
 
Mycroft said:
Destroy the market and you'll only make sure that NOBODY earns a wage...livable or not.
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Ah, yes. The old "all or nothing" argument. Common among tyrants and criminals!

gdgyva said:
no one is forcing them to be an intern

and sorry but kissing ass is a corporate must....especially just starting out

so are long hours, crappy pay, and starting at the bottom

welcome to the world of business....

dont like it....start your own damn business, and be your own damn boss

until then, those with the gold make the rules....or didnt you learn that lesson when you were young
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Here's an idea: instead of forcing the people with the skills to make a career to do the dirty work of people who have gone to seed, why don't we reward the people who do the actual work? Oh, that's right, the thugs with the gold have "connections," aka monopoly power over resources. That's basically just class warfare, isn't it?
 
Mason66 said:
That is not my logic, that is the logic of the other poster I was answering.

I asked him how much a person should be paid to go to college. They are after all using their time to learn, just as in an internship.

I don't see a difference.
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1) College is nothing but learning. The school gets back nothing, except tuition.

2) The company does get something back in terms of return and productivity. Even with training, which any employee would get as well, an intern is let loose to start doing some productive work.

3) One's entire career is a constant learning process.

Point denied.
 
Celebrity said:
Why are unpaid internships illegal? They are illegal because there is a contract between the employer and the intern. What is the difference between volunteering and interning? According to wikidiff,




Robert Reich explains why internships should be for the benefit of the intern, not the employer.
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This would have merit if you were talking about a case in which someone had been forced to take an internship they didn't want to do. Ultimately Students don't HAVE to take internships. It's just really useful. In college I did not take an internship, and wish my college had a good internship program so I could have gotten in on the ground floor of a major tech corporation instead of floundering around unemployed at some points and at some points with monthly contract gigs. That is not how I wanted to live my life. I'm lucky now I even found the job I did in my field.

Plus students get credit for internships and they oftentimes get to get in on the ground floor of a company. they otherwise wouldn't have been even considered in a pile of resumes.
 
Celebrity said:
Ah, yes. The old "all or nothing" argument. Common among tyrants and criminals!



Here's an idea: instead of forcing the people with the skills to make a career to do the dirty work of people who have gone to seed, why don't we reward the people who do the actual work? Oh, that's right, the thugs with the gold have "connections," aka monopoly power over resources. That's basically just class warfare, isn't it?
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gone to seed?

what?

i have no idea what the hell you are talking about....

but i was one of them once....and did my two months of internship

and it led to a job, which led to another, and another....

and 33 years later, i dont think i would have gotten here without being there first

so yeah...i believe in them...and i think they are great

and i still think i got the better part of the deal
 
Celebrity said:
Why are unpaid internships illegal? They are illegal because there is a contract between the employer and the intern. What is the difference between volunteering and interning? According to wikidiff,




Robert Reich explains why internships should be for the benefit of the intern, not the employer.
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While I support a modest salary for interns who are actually contributing to the organization, I have no problem with legal unpaid internships within a reasonable time frame. These are an excellent method for a young person to a) determine interest in a particular industry or service b) learn the ropes and develop marketable skill sets c) obtain references and accredited experience d) network and learn what opportunities and possibilities are out there.

It works in not-for-profit organizations too. The unpaid candy stripers at the local hospital receive invaluable insight as to whether they really want to go into a medical field, etc. The same is true in for profit industries.
 
Celebrity said:
Ah, yes. The old "all or nothing" argument. Common among tyrants and criminals!
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Shrug...

It's you who proposes destroying a market, which means nobody has a job, is a better thing to do than pay people for their marketable value.
 
Mason66 said:
How do you know they are good enough until they start working?
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This argument could be used for ALL new hires. Even with an older and experienced person you don't know if they'll fit in with the company culture until after they've been around awhile. Are you suggesting that all new hires go through an unpaid probationary period first?
 
ModerateGOP said:
This would have merit if you were talking about a case in which someone had been forced to take an internship they didn't want to do. Ultimately Students don't HAVE to take internships. It's just really useful. In college I did not take an internship, and wish my college had a good internship program so I could have gotten in on the ground floor of a major tech corporation instead of floundering around unemployed at some points and at some points with monthly contract gigs. That is not how I wanted to live my life. I'm lucky now I even found the job I did in my field.

Plus students get credit for internships and they oftentimes get to get in on the ground floor of a company. they otherwise wouldn't have been even considered in a pile of resumes.
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Right, students don't have to take internships. Students also don't have to go to class and they don't have to sleep and they don't have to study. They don't have to have skills.

On one hand, child labor is illegal, so we can assume that these interns are adults. Maybe they're not, but who cares if they're being "scouted" by for-profit headhunters (voyeurs)? The idea is simple: students don't have skills, and they don't have resources, therefore they cannot negotiate and will accept whatever is given to them, and they will like it.

radcen said:
Is this topic just an extension of the minimum wage argument?
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No, and no one is forcing interns to take a minimum wage of $0. It's just plain illegal.
 
radcen said:
Yes, economic civilization would cease to exist. :roll:
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sigh...

The sure sign that you have exhausted your argument...and still lost...is when you devolve into hyperbole.

You are dismissed.


you-are-dismissed-749788.jpg
 
Mycroft said:
sigh...

The sure sign that you have exhausted your argument...and still lost...is when you devolve into hyperbole.

You are dismissed.
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Just using sarcasm to point out your hyperbole. Sorry you got all butt hurt by being called on it, and then unable to respond in a meaningful way other then faux indignation..

(Not really sorry. I'm just being polite.)
 
Henrin said:
The problem is people are allowing themselves to be exploited. If the guy offers you a deal where you provide them your labor for nothing in return you should tell them to **** themselves and walk out the door.
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Yet, that's not what's happening here. Interns are receiving valuable experience in return for their labor that is not available to those that enter into internship, from any other source other than the internship.

There is an art of contract law called "consideration" which defines compensation to one party for the receipt of something of value from another party. Most contracts, including employment contracts, have the following phrase, or a derivation thereof: "NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of *** and the mutual covenants set forth herein and for other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which are hereby acknowledged, the parties hereto covenant and agree as follows: ..." Without consideration, the contract is not binding upon either party.

Experience gained has a monetary value, although it may be of undefinable value due to how the person that receives it chooses to utilize it, it still has value and is therefore consideration.

Court of Appeal finds the phrase "other good and valuable consideration" in a contract to be clear and unambiguous statement - Lexology
 
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