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Raw Fear Is What I Feel About This Election

CaptainCourtesy said:
No, your version is a partisan lie created by Republicans. I just find it interesting as to just how many Republicans bought into it. Shows just how partisan most are.
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The version of history I present is in the legal record. The version of history you present is in the imagination of left wingers and democrats.

Republican support for regulation only goes as far as not harming the wallets of big business who have Republicans in their pockets. And the President would work with Moderate Republicans if the had any power and/or weren't scared of the extreme members of their party. Those extreme members have to be willing to work with the President, and they have shown no willingness to... and since they run the party, now, the GOP as a whole, doesn't.
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This is completely false. It was under GW Bush and a Republican congress that the executives of Enron were prosecuted and regulations governing those businesses were beefed up with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. This was the most far reaching revamp of American business practice since FDR. Business regluations are now so expensive and oppressive that it puts America at a disadvantage vis a vis global competitors. It's time to swing back the other way a bit. This ought to be a bipartisan agenda.

I never said anything like that. More and easier to obtain mental health treatment would allow mentally unstable people to be identified more easily. Many of those who have committed some of the most heinous of gun crimes had severe mental issues, some of who were untreated. This is a policy issue, not a diagnostic issue.
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Current law would forbid the sharing of such information between law enforcement and the mental health profession. We'd have to get a lot closer to the Soviet mental health system for that to be possible.

No, after agreeing, tentatively, to the budget, Boehner, realizing that he would not only get no support from the extreme Republican base (humiliating him), but he would lose even more support over other issues, got cold feet and backed off, blaming Obama. Then both of them insulted and blamed each other for at least 24 hours and the window closed.
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Nope. Obama got flak from his base after coming to an agreement and so then did a low ball high ball trick and demanded more taxes. It was a deal breaker. Yes, Boehner would not have been able to get the additional taxes past Congressional Republicans, and I think Obama probably knew that. Obama was in a position to stiff arm his base on this one point, it was his decision to make, but he wouldn't do it.
 
LowDown said:
The version of history I present is in the legal record. The version of history you present is in the imagination of left wingers and democrats.
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The version I present is what actually happened. The version you present is the right wing dishonesty that right wingers got people to believe.

This is completely false. It was under GW Bush and a Republican congress that the executives of Enron were prosecuted and regulations governing those businesses were beefed up with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. This was the most far reaching revamp of American business practice since FDR. Business regluations are now so expensive and oppressive that it puts America at a disadvantage vis a vis global competitors. It's time to swing back the other way a bit. This ought to be a bipartisan agenda.
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It is interesting that you focus on ONE issue rather than looking at the multitude of deregulations that occurred under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Deregulation was what they were about, especially Reagan. And Bush had little choice when the abuses of Enron execs were discovered... a situation made possible by Reagan.

Current law would forbid the sharing of such information between law enforcement and the mental health profession. We'd have to get a lot closer to the Soviet mental health system for that to be possible.
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Current law does not prohibit that at all. As a mental health professional, I can tell law enforcement to remove fire arms from a home any time I believe and can document that a danger is present. The problem with policy isn't that. The problem with policy is who difficult it is for some segments of the population to get adequate mental health treatment.

Nope. Obama got flak from his base after coming to an agreement and so then did a low ball high ball trick and demanded more taxes. It was a deal breaker. Yes, Boehner would not have been able to get the additional taxes past Congressional Republicans, and I think Obama probably knew that. Obama was in a position to stiff arm his base on this one point, it was his decision to make, but he wouldn't do it.
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Nope. Boehner knew he wouldn't be able to get any compromise by the more extreme conservative members, what with their unwillingness to work with Obama at all. So he got cold feet and backed off, ruining the compromise.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And they also idiotically impeached him for having an affair with an intern... possibly the stupidest and most partisan thing I've ever seen in politics.




The Republican lack of support for anything that Obama has proposed is on the Republican directive to NOT support anything that Obama proposes. Name one thing that they SUPPORTED.



Any "compromise" that Republicans offered was a "compromise" that they knew Obama would not accept based on his positions on things. Republicans did that in order to play the victim, a tactic that they are very good at.



I don't know of one proposal that Republicans made that could be construed as a compromise. Their "proposals" were things like "get rid of ACA". No compromises. Just directives to either do what they say or they will cause gridlock... which they did quite often. They made directives that would be unacceptable to Obama, and they knew this. Great tactic in playing the victim. Republicans have been playing the victim for decades, it seems.
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You sure thats what Bill Clinton was impeached for ?

Having an affair ?
 
Fenton said:
You sure thats what Bill Clinton was impeached for ?

Having an affair ?
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Yup. Everything else was a smokescreen. What did he lie about? An affair. What did he obstruct justice about? Having an affair.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The version I present is what actually happened. The version you present is the right wing dishonesty that right wingers got people to believe.
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Usually, when someone makes claims that have nothing objective to back them up, we call them imaginary. I think the legal record of the case is pretty objective, and it backs up my version of the case, which says that Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury.

It is interesting that you focus on ONE issue rather than looking at the multitude of deregulations that occurred under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Deregulation was what they were about, especially Reagan. And Bush had little choice when the abuses of Enron execs were discovered... a situation made possible by Reagan.
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Enron was huge and Sarbanes Oxley was and still is huge, so saying that was "just one issue" is disingenuous. And who had control of the House when Reagan was President? I believe it was hummm, yeah, the Democrats. And yes, they passed deregulation. It was a bipartisan effort, and for the most part it has worked beautifully. I'm not sure about Bush I but Bush II expanded regulations.

Current law does not prohibit that at all. As a mental health professional, I can tell law enforcement to remove fire arms from a home any time I believe and can document that a danger is present. The problem with policy isn't that. The problem with policy is who difficult it is for some segments of the population to get adequate mental health treatment.
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I'll stipulate that metal health care could be better, but I'm pretty sure that there is a double tight restriction on sharing of mental health records under two separate US Codes. I reviewed the AMA guidelines on reporting to authorities, and I'm not finding anything about firearms in the home. It may depend on the state. If you have a link about that it would be appreciated.

Nope. Boehner knew he wouldn't be able to get any compromise by the more extreme conservative members, what with their unwillingness to work with Obama at all. So he got cold feet and backed off, ruining the compromise.
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Nope, Obama caved to the extreme members of his base and scotched the deal. They had an agreement, and he tried to change it at the last minute. The President is in the driver's seat on these things. It was his decision to make regarding whether or not to hold to the deal Republicans agreed to. Bohner was in a much worse position when it came to changing a deal he had already told the Republican caucus about.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Yup. Everything else was a smokescreen. What did he lie about? An affair. What did he obstruct justice about? Having an affair.
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He tried to deny Paula Jones her day in court by lying. That's perjury and obstruction of justice. It really doesn't matter what he lied about, it still applies.
 
LowDown said:
He tried to deny Paula Jones her day in court by lying. That's perjury and obstruction of justice. It really doesn't matter what he lied about, it still applies.
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Perjury is a serious crime, had slick willy been an average Joe he would have done time.
 
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