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This is why millennials will never grow up

I agree. And the fact is, college is not for everyone. People can pursue many careers with great income potential, without taking on debt, and without taking the 5-6 years it takes to complete.

However, I believe in collusion with modern liberal educators, the left pushes this degree meme.

People argue college is necessary because of technology. Ridiculous. What technology? My 5 year old granddaughter can sit down at a computer, or an iPad, and jump on to youtube kids videos without any input from adults. Kids are born with the stuff and live with it every day.

You would be amazed. My degree is in Business Technology Management, information systems are becoming more and more commonplace but you would be amazed how much resistance there is to technology, even if it makes their job easier. It is not just sitting at a computer, is is using things like Excel, SAP, and SAS. Part of the reason my degree even exists is because people suck at learning technology, especially the older generation but the younger generation is not immune either.
 
I agree. And the fact is, college is not for everyone. People can pursue many careers with great income potential, without taking on debt, and without taking the 5-6 years it takes to complete.

However, I believe in collusion with modern liberal educators, the left pushes this degree meme.

People argue college is necessary because of technology. Ridiculous. What technology? My 5 year old granddaughter can sit down at a computer, or an iPad, and jump on to youtube kids videos without any input from adults. Kids are born with the stuff and live with it every day.

UT's 4 year graduation rate is below 60% and that is after rejecting about 5 out of every 6 applicants (all HS graduates). That alone should be a clue as to what HS prepares you for.
 
The cost of education is a complex issue. You have to factor in that most universities are no longer just about the the scholarly tradition, they are play lands. They know that a big percentage of people drop out in the first 2 years, that most of those people are between ages 18-21, so they make those years the most lucrative. University campuses have become little cities, with sports and entertainment complexes, fitness centers, and high cost amenities. All the schools are competing with one another to the bigger and better in terms of offering "all the things". This is reflected in the tuition costs.

Universities used to be about making a contribution to intellectual discourse and the scholarly tradition. Then consumer capitalism transformed it into getting a job. I went to school in the U.S. and then again in Canada. I found the Canadian curriculum far more rigorous. In Europe it's even more rigorous. In the U.S. it's more of a cultural thing to get what you've paid for, not necessarily rigorous study. So the content is less challenging, but as long as you fork over the money you get the paper. It has a ring of "the consumer is always right" underlying it. Unless you're in one of the top 10 schools in the U.S., my opinion is that you're paying a lot of money for an education of lesser quality. Though you wouldn't know that from the "top university rankings", which by the way all factor in those amenities I mentioned.

The "best schools" are based on all the extra crap that they have.

It's going to take a student loan bubble bursting before we get our education system sorted. A degree should not be $100,000K+ for someone just starting out in life.
 
The cost of education is a complex issue. You have to factor in that most universities are no longer just about the the scholarly tradition, they are play lands. They know that a big percentage of people drop out in the first 2 years, that most of those people are between ages 18-21, so they make those years the most lucrative. University campuses have become little cities, with sports and entertainment complexes, fitness centers, and high cost amenities. All the schools are competing with one another to the bigger and better in terms of offering "all the things". This is reflected in the tuition costs.

Universities used to be about making a contribution to intellectual discourse and the scholarly tradition. Then consumer capitalism transformed it into getting a job. I went to school in the U.S. and then again in Canada. I found the Canadian curriculum far more rigorous. In Europe it's even more rigorous. In the U.S. it's more of a cultural thing to get what you've paid for, not necessarily rigorous study. So the content is less challenging, but as long as you fork over the money you get the paper. It has a ring of "the consumer is always right" underlying it. Unless you're in one of the top 10 schools in the U.S., my opinion is that you're paying a lot of money for an education of lesser quality. Though you wouldn't know that from the "top university rankings", which by the way all factor in those amenities I mentioned.

The "best schools" are based on all the extra crap that they have.

It's going to take a student loan bubble bursting before we get our education system sorted. A degree should not be $100,000K+ for someone just starting out in life.

I think it because university in Canada and Europe is much more of a quality over quantity approach while in the US there is a lot more emphasis on quantity in the number of schools and degrees. Some US cities have more universities than the entirety of Canada.
 
You would be amazed. My degree is in Business Technology Management, information systems are becoming more and more commonplace but you would be amazed how much resistance there is to technology, even if it makes their job easier. It is not just sitting at a computer, is is using things like Excel, SAP, and SAS. Part of the reason my degree even exists is because people suck at learning technology, especially the older generation but the younger generation is not immune either.

OK. So everybody should get a degree in Business Technology Management?

The most efficient technology systems available for business today don't require those interfacing with them to hold degrees in their use. That is for someone like yourself. Business is not all about analytics. That is just one piece of the pie.
 
OK. So everybody should get a degree in Business Technology Management?

The most efficient technology systems available for business today don't require those interfacing with them to hold degrees in their use. That is for someone like yourself. Business is not all about analytics. That is just one piece of the pie.

No, that is just my field of study. I study applications of technology (mores specifically information systems) in business environments and how to implement them successfully. These systems are becoming more and more common place and everyone needs to know how to use them in the company. That is the entire point. What an ERP does is centralize every business process from warehousing to accounting to marketing. Everyone has to know how to use ERP software like SAP because everyone form forklift operators to the CEO has to use it. Technology and large information systems are becoming more and more common in business. Requiring people to take classes in how to use that kind of software is required.
 
No, that is just my field of study. I study applications of technology (mores specifically information systems) in business environments and how to implement them successfully. These systems are becoming more and more common place and everyone needs to know how to use them in the company. That is the entire point. What an ERP does is centralize every business process from warehousing to accounting to marketing. Everyone has to know how to use ERP software like SAP because everyone form forklift operators to the CEO has to use it. Technology and large information systems are becoming more and more common in business. Requiring people to take classes in how to use that kind of software is required.

My point is, it doesn't take a skilled operator to use ERP software. Why do IT people exist? Why does your job exist? It exists when the software has issues, or when a specific task is required. Outside of that, if every system required massive skills by everyone using them, they wouldn't be used.
 
I'm just glad I attended a tech school, got an Associate degree debt free, and worked 41 years in IT with just that higher education.
 
well there is social work but bar that and then the individual really would need to make those studies into a PHd and then teach and do research, yes

And there are majors that specifically lead to that. Gender studies is not that major.

what would you prefer they do in order to prepare themselves for the real world

Take classes that get them ready for a career? Going tens of thousands of dollars into debt and coming out with a worthless piece of paper that doesn't help them get a job, then they sit around and whine about it... you figure it out.
 
The answer is yes.

As an employer, a college degree had meaning, even if unrelated to the position. It was testament to focus, commitment, and follow through.

With the plans liberals have, it will lose any real meaning, and will be little better than a HS diploma.

However, the worst aspect is indeed the total scam being pulled on students by educators.

Degrees used to mean something before everyone had one. Even if in a different field, at least they showed that the person had the gumption to work hard and achieve something. Today, when virtually everyone has one, they really don't mean much. This is especially true when most college students come out with a piece of paper and have never had a job in their lives.
 
My point is, it doesn't take a skilled operator to use ERP software. Why do IT people exist? Why does your job exist? It exists when the software has issues, or when a specific task is required. Outside of that, if every system required massive skills by everyone using them, they wouldn't be used.

I do not think you understand what an ERP or modern information systems do at all. They do everything and the more people that learn how to use it the better. It means less training time, less of a productivity loss, and less expense. People are bad at learning technology, but it is becoming more and more required.
 
Degrees used to mean something before everyone had one. Even if in a different field, at least they showed that the person had the gumption to work hard and achieve something. Today, when virtually everyone has one, they really don't mean much. This is especially true when most college students come out with a piece of paper and have never had a job in their lives.

This is why more and more schools are putting emphasis on internship and co-op programs, they provide that relevant work experience. I am part of my school's program, my first work semester is in September.
 
Degrees used to mean something before everyone had one. Even if in a different field, at least they showed that the person had the gumption to work hard and achieve something. Today, when virtually everyone has one, they really don't mean much. This is especially true when most college students come out with a piece of paper and have never had a job in their lives.

Precisely correct. I worked three friggin jobs to put my self through college. I cleaned toilets and other awesome stuff as a night janitor to put myself through graduate school.

Not everyone needs to go to college. But that's not how the government-education complex wants people to see it.
 
This is why millennials will never grow up

of course they will. most of my coworkers are millennials, and they are responsible and professional adults; among the best coworkers that i've ever had.
 
I do not think you understand what an ERP or modern information systems do at all. They do everything and the more people that learn how to use it the better. It means less training time, less of a productivity loss, and less expense. People are bad at learning technology, but it is becoming more and more required.

I think your bias clouds your perception of the importance, and how such systems are used. I guarantee you that systems requiring high degrees of skill by those using them will never be universal in any workplace.
 
I think your bias clouds your perception of the importance, and how such systems are used. I guarantee you that systems requiring high degrees of skill by those using them will never be universal in any workplace.

They do not require a high degree of skill but they do require skill. These systems are increasingly more common in the corporate world and that trend will never stop.
 
This is why more and more schools are putting emphasis on internship and co-op programs, they provide that relevant work experience. I am part of my school's program, my first work semester is in September.

That might be the case there, not so much here. I mean I started working at age 16, I put myself through college, never had a loan, paid everything out of my own pocket, was never in debt and by the time I had my first degree, I also had a lot of work experience and was making a ton of money.

Today, that just doesn't happen very often.
 
They do not require a high degree of skill but they do require skill. These systems are increasingly more common in the corporate world and that trend will never stop.

Agreed. Some level of skill is required. And yes, I agree systems will continue to be upgraded in the corporate world. But the analytic portion of these systems are for specialized departments within the corporate structure. I can't ever see a time when that will change. Unless the person intends to work for one of the new analytic firms, the general operational functions will require skills that don't require significant IT educations.
 
Agreed. Some level of skill is required. And yes, I agree systems will continue to be upgraded in the corporate world. But the analytic portion of these systems are for specialized departments within the corporate structure. I can't ever see a time when that will change. Unless the person intends to work for one of the new analytic firms, the general operational functions will require skills that don't require significant IT educations.

You seem to think that ERPs are solely analytic tools, they are not. Like I said before they are information systems that coordinate all the processes in the business. Everything from where a product is in the warehouse, what products to move into production, purchasing, payroll, marketing, etc. all one system. You do not need to know everything but you need to know your part of it and that involves knowing the technology.
 
That might be the case there, not so much here. I mean I started working at age 16, I put myself through college, never had a loan, paid everything out of my own pocket, was never in debt and by the time I had my first degree, I also had a lot of work experience and was making a ton of money.

Today, that just doesn't happen very often.

Cannot really be done anymore. We have to rely on things like internships during the summer or the co-op programs. I will finish my degree with 1 year of relevant work experience, that is more than what a lot of people can say.
 
America created government subsidized essentially unlimited loans but never set limits on what schools could charge and on what it could be spent. Schools have no reason to lower costs, only raise them.

That's because we are not a socialist/communist nation.
 
You seem to think that ERPs are solely analytic tools, they are not. Like I said before they are information systems that coordinate all the processes in the business. Everything from where a product is in the warehouse, what products to move into production, purchasing, payroll, marketing, etc. all one system. You do not need to know everything but you need to know your part of it and that involves knowing the technology.

I don't mean to leave you with that impression. I have used such systems in my manufacturing business for many, many years. The point is, the people using these systems should not have to have high degrees of skill to interface with them. If they did, they wouldn't be used.

A plant manager needs certain information to determine labor, goods, production, etc. A high level of skill should not be required from the plant manager to gather the information, nor to operate a system in order to get the relative information. If it is required, the system would be rejected.
 
That's because we are not a socialist/communist nation.

Should public schools not be operated in the interest of the public? You cannot do anything about private schools but the government can control the costs of public schools.
 
I don't mean to leave you with that impression. I have used such systems in my manufacturing business for many, many years. The point is, the people using these systems should not have to have high degrees of skill to interface with them. If they did, they wouldn't be used.

A plant manager needs certain information to determine labor, goods, production, etc. A high level of skill should not be required from the plant manager to gather the information, nor to operate a system in order to get the relative information. If it is required, the system would be rejected.

I never said anything about a high degree skill but it does require skill. A skill sadly many people and new graduates lack.
 
Should public schools not be operated in the interest of the public? You cannot do anything about private schools but the government can control the costs of public schools.

Most universities in America are privately owned. Are they not?
 
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