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A teacher writes about the Republican assault on education

ajn678 said:
They already do. Public schools aren't going anywhere. Can you explain why we spend more than any other nation in the world on education, yet we are somewhere in the middle as far as education results go?
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Because unlike most (but not all) of the world's schools, we have a mandate that requires our public schools to provide transportation to and from almost everywhere that there are students...and you'll find that school transportation is very expensive indeed. What's more, our public schools are mandated to teach ALL students...including the medically-fragile and the special-needs students that I still care for in my home. In order to do this, the school must not only provide the facility, but also the nurse(s) and the caregivers needed to teach and care for those students at school. I once figured it up, and the two children that we cared for in the middle of the last decade cost the state about a quarter million taxpayers' dollars each to care for, which included nurses, meds, doctor's appointments, and (a relatively small part) to us, the Foster parents. This amount did not include what the state spent to provide the care and education they required at school.

Private schools, btw, have no such mandates. These are why private schools seem so much cheaper per-student than public schools - because private schools don't have anything like the same mandate that public schools do.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The free market and the profit motive are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to humanity. The experience of the first-world democracies - all of which (including America) are socialized to significant extents - should have taught you that, since social safety nets are not grounded in the free market and the profit motive.
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We were discussing overpaid teachers. Free market works as well in government hiring as well as in the private sector.

I wasn't aware that I mentioned safety nets or profit.

Are we done with education and moving to different topics?
 
jimbo said:
We were discussing overpaid teachers. Free market works as well in government hiring as well as in the private sector.

I wasn't aware that I mentioned safety nets or profit.

Are we done with education and moving to different topics?
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What I did was point out to you that the issue you're discussing is only a small part of a much larger issue.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
What I did was point out to you that the issue you're discussing is only a small part of a much larger issue.
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Where? The issue was teacher compensation.

Overpaid teachers are not part of the solution.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Because unlike most (but not all) of the world's schools, we have a mandate that requires our public schools to provide transportation to and from almost everywhere that there are students...and you'll find that school transportation is very expensive indeed. What's more, our public schools are mandated to teach ALL students...including the medically-fragile and the special-needs students that I still care for in my home. In order to do this, the school must not only provide the facility, but also the nurse(s) and the caregivers needed to teach and care for those students at school. I once figured it up, and the two children that we cared for in the middle of the last decade cost the state about a quarter million taxpayers' dollars each to care for, which included nurses, meds, doctor's appointments, and (a relatively small part) to us, the Foster parents. This amount did not include what the state spent to provide the care and education they required at school.

Private schools, btw, have no such mandates. These are why private schools seem so much cheaper per-student than public schools - because private schools don't have anything like the same mandate that public schools do.
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So no other first world nation educates special needs children? This is so false its hilarious. The reason we have such a terrible education system is because a large percentage of our children have no adults in their life to tell them how important education is and the kids themselves don't care about being educated.
 
jimbo said:
Where? The issue was teacher compensation.

Overpaid teachers are not part of the solution.
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Um, no, the issue was NOT just "teacher compensation". From the OP:

The GOP has been cutting education funding, all while trying to increase money towards our already bloated military. They are trying to eliminate successful teachers, in order to shovel money towards privately owned charter schools. They have even created vouchers which allow their parents to avoid paying taxes to public schools, and send their children to young-earth creationist run religious "education."

As the OP clearly states, the author believes that "eliminating successful teachers" is only part of the Right's long-running war on public education.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Um, no, the issue was NOT just "teacher compensation". From the OP:

The GOP has been cutting education funding, all while trying to increase money towards our already bloated military. They are trying to eliminate successful teachers, in order to shovel money towards privately owned charter schools. They have even created vouchers which allow their parents to avoid paying taxes to public schools, and send their children to young-earth creationist run religious "education."

As the OP clearly states, the author believes that "eliminating successful teachers" is only part of the Right's long-running war on public education.
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But I addressed your post. Post # 23. Even bolded the part I addressed.

Of course, the one strategy that Must Never Be Considered is "properly funding schools and paying teachers what they're worth."

What a teacher is worth is not for you to decide.

When you have a 1000 positions open and 10,000 qualified applicants, you are paying too much.
When you have A 1000 positions open and 500 qualified applicants, you are paying too little.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Um, no, the issue was NOT just "teacher compensation". From the OP:

They have even created vouchers which allow their parents to avoid paying taxes to public schools, and send their children to young-earth creationist run religious "education."[/I]
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The reference to creationism is not material-at all.

Religious belief has no bearing on whether a student is being educated or not. My neighbor has a PHD in engineering, yet believes that wine turns into divine blood when he goes to Mass every Sunday. I met a Hindu software engineer who consulted astrological star charts when naming his son. I also went to an evangelical protestant medical doctor whom I suspect was a creationist.

No, the religious beliefs of these men don't make then any less "educated". No, having these beliefs does not guarantee academic success. Yes, I have full confidence in these three men to design the avionics of the planes I fly in, to write the software codes for my cell phone that I might need to call 911 on, and to treat my illnesses.
 
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Glen Contrarian said:
"We hate public education! Let's cut funding and that will make them be more efficient and teach more effectively! That means that if we give the schools less money, our kids will be taught more effectively!"

And when the grades don't get better, what happens?

"See? Public education doesn't work! We cut their funding to make them be more efficient, and then the grades got worse!"

Of course, the one strategy that Must Never Be Considered is "properly funding schools and paying teachers what they're worth."
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Throw money at it, support unions, blame GOP if fails...
 
Arne Duncan has done more damage than any other person under any administration I can remember.
 
The public school system is a joke. We spend more per student that any other country yet can't keep up with the rest of the world. Bad teachers are protected by teachers unions and state budgets are bloated with pension liabilities. They teach stupid **** and fail parents cede the raising of their kids to the State.

Send your kids to private schools.
 
Can't see the article because of the pay wall but its the Washington Post so I doubt it gives the issue fair treatment.


Glen Contrarian said:
Um, no, the issue was NOT just "teacher compensation". From the OP:

The GOP has been cutting education funding, all while trying to increase money towards our already bloated military. They are trying to eliminate successful teachers, in order to shovel money towards privately owned charter schools. They have even created vouchers which allow their parents to avoid paying taxes to public schools, and send their children to young-earth creationist run religious "education."

As the OP clearly states, the author believes that "eliminating successful teachers" is only part of the Right's long-running war on public education.
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TobyOne said:
Can't see the article because of the pay wall but its the Washington Post so I doubt it gives the issue fair treatment.
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That is the very definition of an assumption: "I don't know what he's saying, but because he is who he is, it's probably biased."

In the future, do try to judge on what is said or done, and not on who says it or does it.
 
Cryptic said:
The reference to creationism is not material-at all.

Religious belief has no bearing on whether a student is being educated or not. My neighbor has a PHD in engineering, yet believes that wine turns into divine blood when he goes to Mass every Sunday. I met a Hindu software engineer who consulted astrological star charts when naming his son. I also went to an evangelical protestant medical doctor whom I suspect was a creationist.

No, the religious beliefs of these men don't make then any less "educated". No, having these beliefs does not guarantee academic success. Yes, I have full confidence in these three men to design the avionics of the planes I fly in, to write the software codes for my cell phone that I might need to call 911 on, and to treat my illnesses.
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Um, yeah, religious belief DOES have such a bearing. Whatever someone's religious may be, that person needs to be educated in scientific fact if for no other reason than to understand why the rest of the world thinks the way it does. Otherwise, it's setting one's kids up for failure if they're going to go to college in any scientific discipline without even a basic understanding about how evolution works.
 
I wish I could but there's a pay wall. Going by the OPs summary or rant - however you want to describe it. Its probably completely slanted. I think thats a fair assessment.

Glen Contrarian said:
That is the very definition of an assumption: "I don't know what he's saying, but because he is who he is, it's probably biased."

In the future, do try to judge on what is said or done, and not on who says it or does it.
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Glen Contrarian said:
Um, yeah, religious belief DOES have such a bearing. Whatever someone's religious may be, that person needs to be educated in scientific fact if for no other reason than to understand why the rest of the world thinks the way it does. Otherwise, it's setting one's kids up for failure if they're going to go to college in any scientific discipline without even a basic understanding about how evolution works.
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So none of those three men were educated in scientific fact because all three hold religious beliefs that are contrary to science? I don't think the medical doctor (suspected creationist) was set up for "failure" because he rejects evolution. If he was, then the set up clearly did not work very well.

In the end, religious belief has very little bearing on a person's ability to use science. Each of these three men has a greater mastery of science than many atheists do.
 
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Glen Contrarian said:
The free market and the profit motive are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to humanity. The experience of the first-world democracies - all of which (including America) are socialized to significant extents - should have taught you that, since social safety nets are not grounded in the free market and the profit motive.
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What someone is worth is what someone is willing to pay. That rule is true no matter if those people are employed by people in the market place or government. Saying that, there is no good reason to ignore things like supply and demand in government pay. Trying to claim you're worth more than what people are willing to pay you is without merit.
 
Ganapathy said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...her-there-simply-is-a-lot-working-against-us/

The GOP has been cutting education funding, all while trying to increase money towards our already bloated military. They are trying to eliminate successful teachers, in order to shovel money towards privately owned charter schools. They have even created vouchers which allow their parents to avoid paying taxes to public schools, and send their children to young-earth creationist run religious "education."

The GOP hates when citizens are educated. They know that educated citizens don't vote for the backwards republican party. They don't want the youth of their states getting into college, since at college, they will be introduced to new ideas, cultures, and beliefs which will expose the gop for the bigoted incompetent crooks they are.

Fortunately, the gop is dying out. Just not soon enough to save the future of millions of children in the education system they have utterly destroyed
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That does it for me

I have read about 8 or 9 of your threads, and they are all the same dribble

Welcome to the list of me not ever clicking on another of your threads

I am sure I am not the only one on the list

:peace
 
Glen Contrarian said:
There's zero constitutional merit for the Clean Air Act, either...but we all live longer, healthier lives if we can breathe more easily.
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So it's ok to violate the constitution if it benefits people?
 
Henrin said:
What someone is worth is what someone is willing to pay. That rule is true no matter if those people are employed by people in the market place or government. Saying that, there is no good reason to ignore things like supply and demand in government pay. Trying to claim you're worth more than what people are willing to pay you is without merit.
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And that's where Ayn Rand went so very wrong.

Supply and demand do play a major role - nobody can sensibly deny that. But it is far from the only factor, for it does not take into account other motivations such as patriotism, love, empathy, duty, honor, all those emotions and feelings that lend a sense of purpose to one's life. I remember one particularly influential (and quite patriotic) libertarian named Dave Nalle - whom I debated many times and I'm saddened to see passed away not long after I left Blogcritics - who tried to make the case that teachers could be paid less because they got more personal satisfaction out of their careers, and so were willing to work for less. He and I agreed on little, but he had certainly earned my respect.

In other words, libertarians need to decide what they really believe - because y'all really are far from being on the same page when it comes to what you believe, much less why you believe so.
 
It comes down to this: There's no reason to pay teachers above market. Paying them more won't create better teachers. There's plenty of supply for teachers.

All your gobbledy gook jiggery pokery is simply a way to advocate for government over markets. For that you can burn in hell.



Glen Contrarian said:
And that's where Ayn Rand went so very wrong.

Supply and demand do play a major role - nobody can sensibly deny that. But it is far from the only factor, for it does not take into account other motivations such as patriotism, love, empathy, duty, honor, all those emotions and feelings that lend a sense of purpose to one's life. I remember one particularly influential (and quite patriotic) libertarian named Dave Nalle - whom I debated many times and I'm saddened to see passed away not long after I left Blogcritics - who tried to make the case that teachers could be paid less because they got more personal satisfaction out of their careers, and so were willing to work for less. He and I agreed on little, but he had certainly earned my respect.

In other words, libertarians need to decide what they really believe - because y'all really are far from being on the same page when it comes to what you believe, much less why you believe so.
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