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What the Bathroom Wars are Really All About

CaptainCourtesy said:
I have learned a long time ago that it makes no sense to try to educate those whom have no desire to be educated.
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Please tell me that by now, you've come to understand that the OP has no desire to be educated on this matter.
 
Dragonfly said:
Please tell me that by now, you've come to understand that the OP has no desire to be educated on this matter.
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I don't think it's even possible to educate him. He's too far gone to be saved.
 
Dragonfly said:
Please tell me that by now, you've come to understand that the OP has no desire to be educated on this matter.
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Looks that way, though I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he logs back on and proves it.
 
Throughout this post, "they" are referring to the people freaking out about the possibility of a trans person in their bathroom. "They" does not refer to trans people.
_____________



They faced increasing pushback by going after gay people, especially after losing the marriage fight. So they picked a more marginalized, more easily bullied target.

It's that simple, really. Trans people are nothing new. Sexual reassignment surgery is nothing new. Trans people in bathrooms, with or without reassignment surgery, is nothing new.

The only thing that is new is the worry. The worry clearly has nothing to do with what it is claimed to be about.






Once this settles down, they'll have to pick a new target.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Nope. You have no knowledge of the issue. NONE for you to say what you just did. So, I will ask again: would you like to learn more about this, or do you want to remain uneducated on it? Your choice and it will govern how I respond. I have learned a long time ago that it makes no sense to try to educate those whom have no desire to be educated.
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Cap, I'm always willing to learn. I'm just not willing to be re-educated.

If you're going to come at me with a detailed and nuanced description that floats in and out of hormonal, genetic, brain structure ya ya ya in one form or another and that these are at root the cause for their GID -- I'm aware of all this. (I will note that there has been evidence that meditation changes brain structure, which should be looked further into as a form of therapy perhaps) I might not have intimate knowledge or hands on experience, or all the terminology down pat and I might have to tell the wife from time to time to "Quit staring!" only to be asked "but how did they get their makeup like that?" but don't think I'm unaware.

Also don't think I'm unaware of political pushes in your profession which promote popular opinion and pop science and try to pass it off as proof. The field is after all a natural haven for those in most need of the services they themselves provide. (no offense, the SA community -- an off-shoot, the same way) So it is natural those who decide, to determine that there's nothing wrong with them or themselves.

The APA-DSM 5 and ICD-10 do currently classify GID as a mental disorder -- do they not? I know there is a growing movement to remove this, but as I said above

While I might have been a tad bit crass in comparing transsexuality, or as you in the biz call it GID to schizophrenia, I wasn't too far off the mark. The reasons behind it, the root causes of it admittedly different, but the manifestation of symptoms in a certain regard are very much the same.

So to tell me that I have no knowledge on the issue isn't quite accurate. I'm much more informed than many on your side of the argument who just want these people to be allowed to "create their own identity" or "to be themselves" or whatever feel good, gimme my ribbon for showing up, bull ****, nonsense they come up with.


As all this relates to the article, when viewed without prejudiced eyes you can clearly see which camp he is referring to as there is a political force, a prevailing ideology which is pushing for "irrational equality". In that they're taking in all allies from every corner ...

To say that there isn't, to dismiss it as a CT is to show me you have no knowledge on the issue.
 
Whether or not trans sexuality is a mental disorder or not is not the real issue here.
The real issue is how society deals with it.
I'm sure there are plenty of dissertations produced by professionals far more learned than ANYONE here that do point to a mental issue. There are opposing viewpoints to any topic.
There are plenty of humans with mental issues but that does not in and of itself make them bad people.

What makes them "bad people" is when their behavior negatively affects others in society. And that is the crux of the matter here. As stated in the article presented in the OP.

Are we, as a society, prepared to change the thinking of ourselves and our children away from the norms generally accepted for hundreds of years to accept that the behaviors of a small minority is normal?
And if so, will there be any detrimental effects on society going forward?

While there are certainly a large number of people (but never close to a majority) in any society who feel, "misplaced" or biologically improperly assigned,
is it wise to fundamentally change the society to adapt to the demands of that minority? Is it in the overall best interest of all?

One point to consider is that while transgender people generally speaking on a case by case basis may be decent people, we have a society full of really bad people. People
who will abuse the changes in society demanded by the minority to the detriment of many of the majority, including innocent children. THAT MUST be considered.
It is irrationally selfish for adults to demand changes to society that "could" have adverse effects on the innocent children of that society. Or non-transexual women.

Once examples of horrific crimes or impersonations with the intent to do harm start to surface (and rest assured they will), popular opinion will change. Just as popular opinions of sanctuary cities has changed since the SanBernadino murders (and others) committed by by illegal immigrants. Yes, these things have occurred in society in the past, but are we paving a future that makes it far too easy for the evil to find innocent victims?

These are things to think about. It cannot JUST be about giving everyone, everything THEY feel is right. It's not that easy.
The US Constitution protects freedom of speech, for example, but that does NOT mean you can arbitrarily yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
 
ChezC3 said:
I'm not sure if I'm more amused by this mess's knee jerk reaction at the beginning or the undeserved smugness at the end. Decisions. Decisions.

Well, seeing as every smelly internet troll the World Wide Web over thinks accosting a child is a prerequisite to the priesthood by the way they bring that nonsense up every time the word "Catholic" is even hinted at -- you really got to stop and think.

Nothing will deter the sick ****s but you certainly don't create an environment where camouflage is provided and pretext is given.

Come now indeed. Ha!
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Come now.

"create an environment where camouglage is provided and pretext given?

that's a laugh. No one is creating an environment or giving a pretext. If a criminal wants to abuse a child.. male or female they are not going to be deterred by a bathroom law.

Wait.. are you suggesting that we should get rid of all bathrooms.. because that's "creating an environment and pretext".

And there is nothing of knee jerk reaction, nor smugness in my post. Just good old common sense... which seems more and more... to not be that common.
 
ChezC3 said:
poppycock


It nails it on the head.

You don't go calling some one riding around on a stick pony with his hand in his breast coat claiming himself the Emperor, Napoleon, do ya? No. You lock his ass up and get him on meds.

Same dif.
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Not in a free country you don't.
 
jaeger19 said:
Come now.

"create an environment where camouglage is provided and pretext given?

that's a laugh. No one is creating an environment or giving a pretext. If a criminal wants to abuse a child.. male or female they are not going to be deterred by a bathroom law.

Wait.. are you suggesting that we should get rid of all bathrooms.. because that's "creating an environment and pretext".

And there is nothing of knee jerk reaction, nor smugness in my post. Just good old common sense... which seems more and more... to not be that common.
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Come Come Now...

Balderdash, nonsense, rubbish, and poppycock to boot!
 
ChezC3 said:
No?

We don't lock people up in the boobyhatch?


Come now...
Click to expand...

not for
Chez said:
You don't go calling some one riding around on a stick pony with his hand in his breast coat claiming himself the Emperor, Napoleon, do ya? No. You lock his ass up and get him on meds.
Click to expand...

Not in a free country.
 
ChezC3 said:
Come Come Now...

Balderdash, nonsense, rubbish, and poppycock to boot!
Click to expand...

Yes.. that's what your post is filled with.

At the end of the day.. you cannot refute the logic.
 
CHICAGO — A man in the city’s West Town neighborhood is accused of choking an 8-year-old girl in the restroom of a South Loop store last weekend.

The incident happened around 1:15 p.m. Saturday at a store in the 1200 block of South Canal Street.

According to police, the girl was inside the store with her mother, but the two got separated and the girl went into the restroom.

33-year-old Reese Hartstirn came into the restroom and starting choking the girl until she passed out.

According to a release from the Chicago Police Department, Hartstirn picked up the girl and carried her into a stall and closed the door.
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Man charged after choking girl, 8, in South Loop store’s restroom | WGN-TV

:2wave:

A little wave hello to all the people who think the idea of a man going into a washroom to accost a little girl is so uncommon...

IT BEGINS: Man Dressed As Woman Arrested In Women's Bathroom...You Won't Believe What He Was Doing! » 100percentfedUp.com

California Man Dressed as Woman Busted for Videoing in Women’s Bathroom

a couple more...

Top Twenty Sexual Crimes Committed at Target Stores - Breitbart

even more still...
 
ChezC3 said:
Cap, I'm always willing to learn. I'm just not willing to be re-educated.

If you're going to come at me with a detailed and nuanced description that floats in and out of hormonal, genetic, brain structure ya ya ya in one form or another and that these are at root the cause for their GID -- I'm aware of all this. (I will note that there has been evidence that meditation changes brain structure, which should be looked further into as a form of therapy perhaps) I might not have intimate knowledge or hands on experience, or all the terminology down pat and I might have to tell the wife from time to time to "Quit staring!" only to be asked "but how did they get their makeup like that?" but don't think I'm unaware.

Also don't think I'm unaware of political pushes in your profession which promote popular opinion and pop science and try to pass it off as proof. The field is after all a natural haven for those in most need of the services they themselves provide. (no offense, the SA community -- an off-shoot, the same way) So it is natural those who decide, to determine that there's nothing wrong with them or themselves.

The APA-DSM 5 and ICD-10 do currently classify GID as a mental disorder -- do they not? I know there is a growing movement to remove this, but as I said above

While I might have been a tad bit crass in comparing transsexuality, or as you in the biz call it GID to schizophrenia, I wasn't too far off the mark. The reasons behind it, the root causes of it admittedly different, but the manifestation of symptoms in a certain regard are very much the same.

So to tell me that I have no knowledge on the issue isn't quite accurate. I'm much more informed than many on your side of the argument who just want these people to be allowed to "create their own identity" or "to be themselves" or whatever feel good, gimme my ribbon for showing up, bull ****, nonsense they come up with.


As all this relates to the article, when viewed without prejudiced eyes you can clearly see which camp he is referring to as there is a political force, a prevailing ideology which is pushing for "irrational equality". In that they're taking in all allies from every corner ...

To say that there isn't, to dismiss it as a CT is to show me you have no knowledge on the issue.
Click to expand...

Firstly, no, your knowledge on this issue is certainly behind the times and inaccurate. GID is no longer listed as a diagnosis. GDD is. There is a difference. GDD effectively removes transsexuality as a mental disorder, an appropriate move for a number of reasons. Transsexuality is not a delusion. It is a biological anomaly/inconsistency. The brain is WIRED as the gender opposite to one's anatomy. The brain received incorrect hormonal reactions during gestation. This is not a psychological issue, but a biological one. GDD is about the dysphoria/distress one feels from having this inconsistency. So, you are FAR off the mark in comparison. With schizophrenia, one believes what is not there. With transsexuality, one has dysphoria for what IS there. BIG difference.

So, when I call the article a CT, I am not far off the mark. The writer gets most of the information wrong, and then goes on to make an absurd argument out of incorrect information... based on an agenda. Sounds like a CT to me.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, no, your knowledge on this issue is certainly behind the times and inaccurate. GID is no longer listed as a diagnosis. GDD is. There is a difference. GDD effectively removes transsexuality as a mental disorder, an appropriate move for a number of reasons. Transsexuality is not a delusion. It is a biological anomaly/inconsistency. The brain is WIRED as the gender opposite to one's anatomy. The brain received incorrect hormonal reactions during gestation. This is not a psychological issue, but a biological one. GDD is about the dysphoria/distress one feels from having this inconsistency. So, you are FAR off the mark in comparison. With schizophrenia, one believes what is not there. With transsexuality, one has dysphoria for what IS there. BIG difference.

So, when I call the article a CT, I am not far off the mark. The writer gets most of the information wrong, and then goes on to make an absurd argument out of incorrect information... based on an agenda. Sounds like a CT to me.
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So there is a diagnosis. "Effectively" is a meaningless qualifier. Vaccines have "effectively" wiped out polio, but it is still here. No, I'm not far off the mark with anything and there is nothing there. The man who is WIRED to think he's a woman DOES NOT have a va-ja-ja. The woman thinking herself a man DOES NOT have a schmeckel.

IT is a delusion. Whether the symptoms are genetic, environmental, biological, chemical, or astrological -- DOES NOT MATTER. They think that which isn't so.

If you don't like the word "delusion", if it doesn't fit clinically, if you're picking nits here, than find a more apt word for it.

You're completely off the mark regarding the article as the information isn't wrong. You're trying your damnedest to illustrate a distinction all the while purposefully ignoring one.

A stronger argument for a CT can be made that this evolution of diagnosis is the effect of the psychological communities sympathies (based on members of the community's afflictions)rather than any concrete, actual hard evidence.

This type of quackery is precisely why Psychology is looked down upon by the other Sciences.
 
ChezC3 said:
Walk Left side, safe. Walk Right side, safe Walk middle, sooner or later, *Squish* just like grape

Well, apparently your delicate sensibilities have gotten the better of you.. you're guilty of what you accuse.

I think you better recalibrate your "critical reading mode".

As is your post thus far.

How is it incorrect? You've a seven layer cake here of unsubstantiated assertions. Irrational equality is an apt description, I'd have used bat **** crazy, myself...


I'm gonna have to "Pffft" on your post here. Projection, Ridicule, and what's truly loaded language, words like "bigotry" and "closet misogynist" is all you've show "us".

Kudos for actually reading the article though. That's an improvement.
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That's an awful lot of words just to say you choose to dodge his post.
 
ChezC3 said:
What the Bathroom Wars are Really All About - Crisis Magazine

Best article I've read that explains exactly what is going on.

(read it in its entirety before you post.. it will take 3 min at most, if you don't want to invest your time into reading it, don't waste my time responding.)
Click to expand...

The entire argument from the right against transgenders is rehashed gay bashing. Now that gays aren't gross anymore it's transgenders that give them the "ick" factor and the entirety of their arguments is based on how transgendered people make them "feel". You guys are way too thenthative to be in any power positions.
 
poweRob said:
The entire argument from the right against transgenders is rehashed gay bashing. Now that gays aren't gross anymore it's transgenders that give them the "ick" factor and the entirety of their arguments is based on how transgendered people make them "feel". You guys are way too thenthative to be in any power positions.
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blah, blah, blah?

:lamo
 
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