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Example of Socialism in the United States

Bucky said:
Thank you for the post FT.
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You're welcome.

She is a rebel-rouser that has been arrested for disorderly conduct.
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So have most politicians. If they weren't politically active, they wouldn't deserve their positions in the first place.

She fights for policies that hurt our state - and supports candidates that would hurt the United States.
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Total lack of specificity.

A mandatory $15 minimum wage,
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Perhaps you misunderstand this, but that's good for society. The lack of velocity of money is a pretty crucial reason everyone's economies are so slow to recover.

fighting against a mythical foe in global warming, etc.

Global warming is not mythical, but it's certainly a foe to humanity's long term survival.

You can see the SA's goals right here. So how many of these policy would bankrupt America:

"Create living-wage union jobs for all the unemployed through a massive public works program to develop mass transit, renewable energy, infrastructure, healthcare, education, and affordable housing.
Free, high quality healthcare for all. Replace the failed for-profit insurance companies with a publicly funded single-payer system as a step towards fully socialized medicine.
No budget cuts to education & social services! Full funding for all community needs. The federal government should bail out states to prevent cuts and layoffs. A massive increase in taxes on the rich and big business, not working people.
Raise the federal minimum wage to $15/hour, adjusted annually for cost of living increases and regional differences, as a step towards a living wage for all.
A minimum guaranteed weekly income of $600/week for the unemployed, disabled, stay-at-home parents, the elderly, and others unable to work.
Stop home foreclosures and evictions. For public ownership and democratic control of the major banks.
No more layoffs! Take bankrupt and failing companies into public ownership and retool them for socially necessary green production.
Free, high quality public education for all from pre-school through college. Full funding for schools to dramatically lower teacher-student ratios. Stop the focus on high stakes testing and the drive to privatize public education.
Repeal all anti-union laws like Taft-Hartley. For democratic unions run by the rank-and-file to fight for better pay, working conditions, and social services. Full-time union officials should be regularly elected and receive the average wage of those they represent.
For a guaranteed living wage pension.
Shorten the workweek with no loss in pay and benefits – share out the work with the unemployed and create new jobs"​

About SA | Socialist Alternative
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Yeah, that sounds awesome. I'd love to have all of those policies in place, we'd be a better country and a better people for it, Many of these policies will end up saving Americans and America money (like single-payer healthcare), so no dice again, Bucky. Please come up with more examples.
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Carjosse said:
Not mine, I would rather celebrate John Cabot, also Italian and actually discovered North America but with money from the English or how about Jacques Cartier, famous explorer who also helped discover North America.
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Cartier would probably be a better fit for Canada and Francophiles, than NYC & Chicago Italians. But then Columbus never made it to the current contiguous 48 states either, I suppose.

Of course the problem is: The cat's already out-of-the-bag with many decades federal history!
 
Bucky said:
Living in Seattle I get to witness first hand the destructive nature of socialism. Seattle somehow elected a socialist on the Seattle City Council. We are talking a true socialist who belongs in the Socialist Alternative, a Trotskyist political party. I wish I was making this up but it is true. She's an economics professor. Seriously.

Here are some of her radical ideas:

On climate change:



Socialist Seattle Politician Kshama Sawant: We Need a Radical Militant Nonviolent Climate Movement | Democracy Now!

Changing Columbus Day:



Seattle Swaps Columbus Day For 'Indigenous Peoples' Day' : Code Switch : NPR

She truly is a radical, dangerous women. Anti-police, Anti-business type person. She recently voted against building a new arena in Seattle. She will defend a Black Lives Matter Activist over a cop any day of the week. She defends rent control and allowing homeless people to reside on sidewalks.
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I don't know her and I don't live there so she may very well be a horrible politician. But I hope you have better examples because the two you listed don't make your case.
 
Bucky said:
Living in Seattle I get to witness first hand the destructive nature of socialism. Seattle somehow elected a socialist on the Seattle City Council. We are talking a true socialist who belongs in the Socialist Alternative, a Trotskyist political party. I wish I was making this up but it is true. She's an economics professor. Seriously.

Here are some of her radical ideas:

On climate change:



Socialist Seattle Politician Kshama Sawant: We Need a Radical Militant Nonviolent Climate Movement | Democracy Now!

Changing Columbus Day:



Seattle Swaps Columbus Day For 'Indigenous Peoples' Day' : Code Switch : NPR

She truly is a radical, dangerous women. Anti-police, Anti-business type person. She recently voted against building a new arena in Seattle. She will defend a Black Lives Matter Activist over a cop any day of the week. She defends rent control and allowing homeless people to reside on sidewalks.
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It's perfectly fine with me that Americans celebrate a ea captain who was lost at sea and rescued by natives all of whom died from the diseases Europeans carried. Even in his third voyage he still thought he was in the "Indies".

Not only that he was at least second, behind Lief Ericson
 
Chomsky said:
Cartier would probably be a better fit for Canada and Francophiles, than NYC & Chicago Italians. But then Columbus never made it to the current contiguous 48 states either, I suppose.

Of course the problem is: The cat's already out-of-the-bag with many decades federal history!
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But he actually discovered part of North America, he charted the St. Lawrence, that probably had more of an impact on the US than Columbus.
 
Fearandloathing said:
It's perfectly fine with me that Americans celebrate a ea captain who was lost at sea and rescued by natives all of whom died from the diseases Europeans carried.
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Hey, not all of them died form disease, he murdered a large number of them too.
 
Fearandloathing said:
It's perfectly fine with me that Americans celebrate a ea captain who was lost at sea and rescued by natives all of whom died from the diseases Europeans carried. Even in his third voyage he still thought he was in the "Indies".

Not only that he was at least second, behind Lief Ericson
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Columbus was so wrong in his estimate of the size of the globe that he was laughed at. Educated people all over Europe knew he couldn't possibly have gone to the Indies and back in the time he was gone. Hell, the ancient Greeks had a more accurate estimate- Columbus thought Japan would be about 2,000 miles from the Canary Islands.
 
Grand Mal said:
Columbus was so wrong in his estimate of the size of the globe that he was laughed at. Educated people all over Europe knew he couldn't possibly have gone to the Indies and back in the time he was gone. Hell, the ancient Greeks had a more accurate estimate- Columbus thought Japan would be about 2,000 miles from the Canary Islands.
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There are good reasons the landmass was not named "Columbia", but after another guy who no one can remember...
 
Carjosse said:
But he actually discovered part of North America, he charted the St. Lawrence, that probably had more of an impact on the US than Columbus.
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You're really lobbying for this guy, aren't you! ;)

The deal in the States was, as I stated earlier, to appease the Italian Community. Whatever it's intentions, the holiday has extremely strong ethnic association; do a quick Google images search of the parades, and check it out. Also, the Knights of Columbus themselves have been strongly associated with, and proponents of, the holiday and parades. It's a complex issue here in the States, more than it appears on the surface due to the ethnic connotations.
 
Ever since hearing about the atrocities committed by Columbus and the men under his charge (such as cutting off the noses of Native women who would not sleep with his crew as one example), I have been in favor of changing this day, myself.
Columbus Day? Celebration of cruelty and slavery

You can't say "Well let's just ignore what kind of man he was and celebrate what he did for US usurpers..." because it really doesn't work that way if you want to celebrate a free and fair history.
If it is not that big a deal then ask yourselves why you might be so upset with the name change.
Compared to being raped and murdered, I think giving up a holiday name is a small thing. But that's just me.

Beyond that, I don't care about the politics on this one or the politicians involved. Just can't celebrate a man like this.

Edit: In case you need a Conservative View (see: Establishing Slavery):
Conservapedia: Christopher Columbus
 
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BOTTOM LINE: Columbus has his name...and variations on his name...everywhere. Joe Schmoe does not.

He had an opportunity...took it...made it work somehow.

History decided the rest.

Columbus, Ohio
* Columbus, Arkansas
* Columbus, Georgia
* Columbus, Illinois
* Columbus, Indiana
* Columbus, Kansas
* Columbus, Kentucky
* Columbus, Mississippi
* Columbus, Montana
* Columbus, Nebraska
* Columbus, New Jersey
* Columbus, New Mexico
* Columbus, New York
* Columbus, North Carolina
* Columbus, North Dakota
* Columbus, Texas
* Columbus, Wisconsin
* Columbus (town), Wisconsin
* Columbus Air Force Base
* Columbus City, Iowa
* Columbus Grove, Ohio
* Columbus Junction, Iowa
* Columbus Township, Illinois
* Columbus Township, Indiana
* Columbus Township, Iowa
* Columbus Township, Luce County, Michigan
* Columbus Township, St. Clair County, Michigan
* Columbus Township, Minnesota
* Columbus Township, Missouri
* Columbus Township, Nebraska
* Columbus Township, North Carolina
* Columbus Township, Pennsylvania
 
Bucky said:
She essentially wants to give $28,800 to people for doing nothing. This is in addition with unemployment benefits, disability benefits, Social Security, etc they already receive. Can you say, insolvent?



Not possible.



This is a war against oil, corporations and businesses. All against what? A fight against a mythical opponent in global warming which may or may not be caused my humans.



She's friends with Bernie Sanders. This idea she supports the 99% and fights against the 1% is a farce. A "massive increase in taxes" on the rich is essentially anyone in the middle class or above.
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Frank Apisa said:
She sounds like a smart woman. You're lucky to have her.
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A smart woman wanting to confiscate that much money from the working to support those who refuse to work? Well, socialism works until you run out of other people's money.

I can see that we have some very different ideas as to what constitutes 'smart' and what doesn't.

Let's just hope that these extremist left wing ideas get the traction they deserve, which is none.
 
Bucky said:
Living in Seattle I get to witness first hand the destructive nature of socialism. Seattle somehow elected a socialist on the Seattle City Council. We are talking a true socialist who belongs in the Socialist Alternative, a Trotskyist political party. I wish I was making this up but it is true. She's an economics professor. Seriously.

Here are some of her radical ideas:

On climate change:



Socialist Seattle Politician Kshama Sawant: We Need a Radical Militant Nonviolent Climate Movement | Democracy Now!

Changing Columbus Day:



Seattle Swaps Columbus Day For 'Indigenous Peoples' Day' : Code Switch : NPR

She truly is a radical, dangerous women. Anti-police, Anti-business type person. She recently voted against building a new arena in Seattle. She will defend a Black Lives Matter Activist over a cop any day of the week. She defends rent control and allowing homeless people to reside on sidewalks.
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Want a great example of socialism? Military health care. I'm retired Navy, and two weeks ago I had a total knee replacement, for free. And you know what? The United States government will make a PROFIT off that total knee replacement (and the other knee that will be replaced next month)! How? Because of these total knee replacements, I'll be able to work for ten, fifteen, perhaps twenty more years, paying taxes all the while...whereas if the government had not paid for my TKRs, I would not have been able to work, to support my family...and for the rest of my life, we would essentially have been dependent on the state.

I know it will sound offensive to you, but the military is the most socialized segment of American society. Active-duty military never go hungry, never do without a place to sleep, and (almost always) have all the health care they need...in return for what they do for America.

The only reason so many Americans get angry at the very mention of socialism isn't because of what socialism does for us, but because "socialist" was part of the name of the USSR, and so most Americans equate socialism with Stalinism and tyranny. Of course, once strictly-socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the whole laundry list of social programs that most Americans use are threatened, well, all of a sudden those programs become sacrosanct....
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Want a great example of socialism? Military health care. I'm retired Navy, and two weeks ago I had a total knee replacement, for free. And you know what? The United States government will make a PROFIT off that total knee replacement (and the other knee that will be replaced next month)! How? Because of these total knee replacements, I'll be able to work for ten, fifteen, perhaps twenty more years, paying taxes all the while...whereas if the government had not paid for my TKRs, I would not have been able to work, to support my family...and for the rest of my life, we would essentially have been dependent on the state.

I know it will sound offensive to you, but the military is the most socialized segment of American society. Active-duty military never go hungry, never do without a place to sleep, and (almost always) have all the health care they need...in return for what they do for America.

The only reason so many Americans get angry at the very mention of socialism isn't because of what socialism does for us, but because "socialist" was part of the name of the USSR, and so most Americans equate socialism with Stalinism and tyranny. Of course, once strictly-socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the whole laundry list of social programs that most Americans use are threatened, well, all of a sudden those programs become sacrosanct....
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You plan on sticking to this example of " socialism " ?

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Want a great example of socialism? Military health care. I'm retired Navy, and two weeks ago I had a total knee replacement, for free.
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Wishing you a speedy recovery there, Glen. Was wondering why you were kinda quite for a few days.

Glen Contrarian said:
And you know what? The United States government will make a PROFIT off that total knee replacement (and the other knee that will be replaced next month)! How? Because of these total knee replacements, I'll be able to work for ten, fifteen, perhaps twenty more years, paying taxes all the while...whereas if the government had not paid for my TKRs, I would not have been able to work, to support my family...and for the rest of my life, we would essentially have been dependent on the state.

I know it will sound offensive to you, but the military is the most socialized segment of American society. Active-duty military never go hungry, never do without a place to sleep, and (almost always) have all the health care they need...in return for what they do for America.

The only reason so many Americans get angry at the very mention of socialism isn't because of what socialism does for us, but because "socialist" was part of the name of the USSR, and so most Americans equate socialism with Stalinism and tyranny. Of course, once strictly-socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the whole laundry list of social programs that most Americans use are threatened, well, all of a sudden those programs become sacrosanct....
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Rather than an expounding of the alleged benefits of large government, I think this is a tribute to the benefits of modern medicine.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Want a great example of socialism? Military health care. I'm retired Navy, and two weeks ago I had a total knee replacement, for free. And you know what? The United States government will make a PROFIT off that total knee replacement (and the other knee that will be replaced next month)! How? Because of these total knee replacements, I'll be able to work for ten, fifteen, perhaps twenty more years, paying taxes all the while...whereas if the government had not paid for my TKRs, I would not have been able to work, to support my family...and for the rest of my life, we would essentially have been dependent on the state.

I know it will sound offensive to you, but the military is the most socialized segment of American society. Active-duty military never go hungry, never do without a place to sleep, and (almost always) have all the health care they need...in return for what they do for America.

The only reason so many Americans get angry at the very mention of socialism isn't because of what socialism does for us, but because "socialist" was part of the name of the USSR, and so most Americans equate socialism with Stalinism and tyranny. Of course, once strictly-socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the whole laundry list of social programs that most Americans use are threatened, well, all of a sudden those programs become sacrosanct....
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I remember seeing John McCain interviewed and him saying that government health care wasn't right for Americans. When the interviewer pointed out that he'd been on government health care for all his life, McCain played the POW card, saying a different gov't had looked after his health for some years and hadn't done such a good job of it.
 
Fenton said:
You plan on sticking to this example of " socialism " ?

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com
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Whereas medical mistakes are now the third-largest cause of death in America. Does that mean that you're going to stop going to the doctor?

But back to your reply, the issue's a lot more complicated than you seem to think...especially since there's tens of millions of veterans, Your Boy Dubya neglected the VA while sending hundreds of thousands of our kids to Iraq and Afghanistan (thus overloading the system), and many of these veterans were never properly educated concerning what benefits they have and how to apply for them in a timely manner.
 
Grand Mal said:
I remember seeing John McCain interviewed and him saying that government health care wasn't right for Americans. When the interviewer pointed out that he'd been on government health care for all his life, McCain played the POW card, saying a different gov't had looked after his health for some years and hadn't done such a good job of it.
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Funny thing is, the only true "government health care" is the military health care - almost everything else that we consider "government health care" is actually PRIVATE health care paid for by the taxpayers.
 
eohrnberger said:
Wishing you a speedy recovery there, Glen. Was wondering why you were kinda quite for a few days.
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Thanks - I'm only 53, so I'm young for such surgeries, but it was a genetic condition, apparently. I'm recovering much faster than most do...but mostly because I'm still young and in otherwise good health. I just feel so doggone sorry for the ones who are in their 60's and 70's - it's got to be a heck of a lot harder for them than it is for me. I really am the luckiest (most blessed) guy I know.

Rather than an expounding of the alleged benefits of large government, I think this is a tribute to the benefits of modern medicine.
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I'd say it's both - because we couldn't have anything like this without "big government" (it would be logistically impossible)...and what we call modern medicine would have been called miraculous when you and I were kids. To think that only two weeks after the surgery, I'm walking around with a titanium knee that hurts less than my other knee...all I feel is wonder...and gratitude.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Whereas medical mistakes are now the third-largest cause of death in America. Does that mean that you're going to stop going to the doctor?

But back to your reply, the issue's a lot more complicated than you seem to think...especially since there's tens of millions of veterans, Your Boy Dubya neglected the VA while sending hundreds of thousands of our kids to Iraq and Afghanistan (thus overloading the system), and many of these veterans were never properly educated concerning what benefits they have and how to apply for them in a timely manner.
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That knee replacment wasn't " free " Glenn.

Please dont tell me your this naive
 
Fenton said:
That knee replacment wasn't " free " Glenn.

Please dont tell me your this naive
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No, it wasn't exactly "free". The taxpayers paid for it (at a much-reduced price than it would have been in a civilian facility with a civilian doctor, btw)...and it was a "benefit" that I got for twenty years of service.

But what you're not getting is my point that because this was done for me, I will be able to pay much more in taxes over the next twenty years - much more than the cost of these TKRs - than I would be if the taxpayers had not paid for them - instead, without the TKRs, I would have been a burden on the taxpayers rather than a productive citizen paying my taxes.

And THAT, sir, is why single-payer health care (which is what military health care essentially is) is so much better for the nation as a whole - because we pay ANYWAY: we either pay up front to get the health care taken care of ahead of time...OR we pay for having millions of people who can't afford the health care they need, and wind up being burdens on society because they can't get the health care they need.

But either way, we pay anyway...and it's just like the old Quaker State commercial (or was it Pennzoil?) where the mechanic said, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later"...meaning, you can pay for an oil change now, or you can pay later for what happens when you don't get regular oil changes. It's the same thing with the human body - we, the taxpayers, can pay for our care now...or we can pay later for what happens because we didn't have the guts to pay for it now.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
No, it wasn't exactly "free". The taxpayers paid for it (at a much-reduced price than it would have been in a civilian facility with a civilian doctor, btw)...and it was a "benefit" that I got for twenty years of service.

But what you're not getting is my point that because this was done for me, I will be able to pay much more in taxes over the next twenty years - much more than the cost of these TKRs - than I would be if the taxpayers had not paid for them - instead, without the TKRs, I would have been a burden on the taxpayers rather than a productive citizen paying my taxes.

And THAT, sir, is why single-payer health care (which is what military health care essentially is) is so much better for the nation as a whole - because we pay ANYWAY: we either pay up front to get the health care taken care of ahead of time...OR we pay for having millions of people who can't afford the health care they need, and wind up being burdens on society because they can't get the health care they need.

But either way, we pay anyway...and it's just like the old Quaker State commercial (or was it Pennzoil?) where the mechanic said, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later"...meaning, you can pay for an oil change now, or you can pay later for what happens when you don't get regular oil changes. It's the same thing with the human body - we, the taxpayers, can pay for our care now...or we can pay later for what happens because we didn't have the guts to pay for it now.
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For some reason Vermont couldn't make Single Payer work. Even though a MIT and Harvard Economist said it would save them over a Billion dollars.

They lied. Vermont couldn't make Single payer work because the tax increases needed to pay for it would have crushed their local economy.

And there's a difference between malpractice and being put on a Govt list where your allowed to die without treatment.

Big difference. No one was held accountable for the VA's corruption.
 
eohrnberger said:
A smart woman wanting to confiscate that much money from the working to support those who refuse to work? Well, socialism works until you run out of other people's money.

I can see that we have some very different ideas as to what constitutes 'smart' and what doesn't.

Let's just hope that these extremist left wing ideas get the traction they deserve, which is none.
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One: She is smart.

Two: We do have different ideas on that, Eo.

Three: The ideas she is espousing will be mainstream during the lifetime of people NOW LIVING. They are necessary...and will probably be implemented while the conservative ilk do their best to keep us in the 18th century.
 
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