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Right Wing Spin Machine Created Trump

Henrin said:
How does he want to address it? From what I can tell all he wants to do is provide people things at other peoples expense and continue public policies that haven't been shown to work. How is free college going to fix anything? Aren't you just going to have more degrees that are worthless? Aren't people going to continue to have trouble finding work after going to college even with his plan? How does moving the cost of the service to everyone solve any underlining problems?
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Liberals don't think that deeply or analyze the impact of their proposals beyond the feel good nature of simply proposing them. If everyone has a college degree, of what value is a college degree? No answer. They don't care. All they care about is that they have done something not that they have done anything of real value. All you will have is truck drivers and pizza delivery boys with college degrees who will feel cheated by the system for having a degree that gets them nowhere
 
Henrin said:
How does he want to address it? From what I can tell all he wants to do is provide people things at other peoples expense and continue public policies that haven't been shown to work. How is free college going to fix anything? Aren't you just going to have more degrees that are worthless? Aren't people going to continue to have trouble finding work after going to college even with his plan? How does moving the cost of the service to everyone solve any underlining problems?
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I'm not going to argue that with someone that thinks government shouldn't exist at all.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I know its an uncomfortable reality for Trump supporters, but there is no doubt.
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Im not a Trump supporter, and there certainly is doubt. Anyone who disagrees with liberal dogma is scratching the dark underbelly of something. That's all you guys ever say. I know, its hate speech. The kind of speech the liberal fascists want to ban. Keep fighting the good fight.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I'm not going to argue that with someone that thinks government shouldn't exist at all.
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It's an economics question. If I give you a one pen, how much do you value that pen? Now, if I give you a warehouse of pens, how much do you value that one pen? I'm going to bet that you probably won't care much about the pen when you have 10,000 other pens. Why do you think everyone going to college for free is going to somehow resolve the problem? When college degrees are the norm do you think they really put you ahead?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I'm not going to argue that with someone that thinks government shouldn't exist at all.
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I suspect you couldn't argue it with anyone since a persons stance on government size is irrelevant to the issue he raised.
 
Fletch said:
I suspect you couldn't argue it with anyone since a persons stance on government size is irrelevant to the issue he raised.
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Arguing with anarchists who think they're libertarians isn't my idea of a good time.
 
Fletch said:
The kind of speech the liberal fascists want to ban. Keep fighting the good fight.
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I love that part of your story where pointing out a wrong is "Fascist".

When did I ever say anything about banning anything?

I'll wait.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I love that part of your story where pointing out a wrong is "Fascist".

When did I ever say anything about banning anything?

I'll wait.
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Im speaking of those brilliant liberals who say they defend free speech but oppose hate speech (of which you are one, no doubt)
 
Fletch said:
Im speaking of those brilliant liberals who say they defend free speech but oppose hate speech (of which you are one, no doubt)
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He can say whatever he wants to say.

Pointing out its been rather racist in nature is an uncomfortable reality, especially given how much support he's garnered... But it doesn't magically make it go away.

You really just argue for the sake of it don't know, you couldn't show I said anything about banning anything, so you desperately spout whatever nonsensical "LIBRUZLS ARE TEH BADDY PEPLE" Even though I'm not one.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Arguing with anarchists who think they're libertarians isn't my idea of a good time.
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My question had nothing to do with my beliefs on government. How does Bernie's plans solve anything? You don't have any answers because they don't. What I went over with college is economics 101, in which his plan fails to pass.
 
I lost all respect for Bernie last night when he couldn't answer basic questions on how he was going to fund his unicorn and puppies for everyone platform. The exchange went somethling like this:

Brett Baier: Public debt is large and growing. Your platform calls for 19T of new spending. How will you avoid a debt crisis.

Sanders: Well, 15T of my spending plan is for Medicare for everyone. We need to be more like european countries

Brett Baier: But my question was about debt. How will you pay for that?

Sanders: Free college for everyone

Brett Baier: ... ... Lets go to audience questions ...
 
TobyOne said:
I lost all respect for Bernie last night when he couldn't answer basic questions on how he was going to fund his unicorn and puppies for everyone platform. The exchange went somethling like this:

Brett Baier: Public debt is large and growing. Your platform calls for 19T of new spending. How will you avoid a debt crisis.

Sanders: Well, 15T of my spending plan is for Medicare for everyone. We need to be more like european countries

Brett Baier: But my question was about debt. How will you pay for that?

Sanders: Free college for everyone

Brett Baier: ... ... Lets go to audience questions ...
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If I was asking questions I wouldn't allow candidates to do that. They would either answer the questions or not get any sleep that night. Lets just say I can spend a very long time asking the same question over and over again.
 
TobyOne said:
I lost all respect for Bernie last night when he couldn't answer basic questions on how he was going to fund his unicorn and puppies for everyone platform. The exchange went somethling like this:

Brett Baier: Public debt is large and growing. Your platform calls for 19T of new spending. How will you avoid a debt crisis.

Sanders: Well, 15T of my spending plan is for Medicare for everyone. We need to be more like european countries

Brett Baier: But my question was about debt. How will you pay for that?

Sanders: Free college for everyone

Brett Baier: ... ... Lets go to audience questions ...
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Pretty much sums up why Bernie is a joke.
 
calamity said:
Pretty much sums up why Bernie is a joke.
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Bernie Sanders IS NOT a joke. I support Hillary, but he is not a joke.

He is a guy saying things that ought to be said loudly and clearly in this country.

I support Hillary Clinton...and fully expect she will be our next president. But I respect Bernie Sanders.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Bernie Sanders IS NOT a joke. I support Hillary, but he is not a joke.

He is a guy saying things that ought to be said loudly and clearly in this country.

I support Hillary Clinton...and fully expect she will be our next president. But I respect Bernie Sanders.
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Much like with Trump's rhetoric, Bernie's numbers do not add up. Even if he stripped the military budget, we could never afford his proposals without shooting debt through the roof. I call Bernie our Greek candidate: he says what people want to hear, but bringing his ideas to reality would bankrupt our country in a few short years.

My biggest concern with Bernie is that he will chase away business even faster than it's leaving this country already. Trump, OTOH, may actually be able to deliver on its return...but at too steep a price for consumers and the environment. Hence...Hillary--more of the same.
 
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Fletch said:
Liberals don't think that deeply or analyze the impact of their proposals beyond the feel good nature of simply proposing them. If everyone has a college degree, of what value is a college degree? No answer. They don't care. All they care about is that they have done something not that they have done anything of real value. All you will have is truck drivers and pizza delivery boys with college degrees who will feel cheated by the system for having a degree that gets them nowhere
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you'd have to be bereft of intellect to think that being educated in and of itself isn't valuable.
 
Fletch said:
If everyone has a college degree, of what value is a college degree?
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If everyone has a college degree, then everyone is at least a little bit better, and in many cases a vast degree better, in critical thought and communicating one's thoughts to others.

One would expect that to be an overall positive in something that's supposed to be a representative democracy in which the populace necessarily participates....
 
Mr Person said:
If everyone has a college degree, then everyone is at least a little bit better, and in many cases a vast degree better, in critical thought and communicating one's thoughts to others.

One would expect that to be an overall positive in something that's supposed to be a representative democracy in which the populace necessarily participates....
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With the exception of the STEM programs, college has already been watered down to virtual uselessness. Exactly what practical use is there for a degree in the humanities, sociology, philosophy, etc.?

Granted, those programs require students to read, write and think critically. But what does that buy other than a bunch of literate people who still can't find a good job?
 
calamity said:
With the exception of the STEM programs, college has already been watered down to virtual uselessness. Exactly what practical use is there for a degree in the humanities, sociology, philosophy, etc.?

Granted, those programs require students to read, write and think critically. But what does that buy other than a bunch of literate people who still can't find a good job?
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I actually have a philosophy degree. I credit philosophy with greatly increasing my aptitude in all areas of critical thought, self-expression, and most importantly written or oral argument. If I had not gotten a philosophy degree, I suspect I would not have been nearly as successful in law school and in a career of appellate cases (and other post-conviction litigation).

I think thought and communication are pretty much the most useful and most widely applicable skills a person can have. It's simply on the philosophy major to convince an employer to let them prove themselves.


As for college being watered down: sure, I knew which professors were supposed to be the easy ones and which are the hard ones. I took classes with the hard ones. If someone chooses the easy ones and isn't served by their degree, that's their fault. Not college or humanities in general.
 
Mr Person said:
I actually have a philosophy degree. I credit philosophy with greatly increasing my aptitude in all areas of critical thought, self-expression, and most importantly written or oral argument. If I had not gotten a philosophy degree, I suspect I would not have been nearly as successful in law school and in a career of appellate cases (and other post-conviction litigation).

I think thought and communication are pretty much the most useful and most widely applicable skills a person can have. It's simply on the philosophy major to convince an employer to let them prove themselves.


As for college being watered down: sure, I knew which professors were supposed to be the easy ones and which are the hard ones. I took classes with the hard ones. If someone chooses the easy ones and isn't served by their degree, that's their fault. Not college or humanities in general.
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My major was economics, but the college I went to essentially required a major in both religion and philosophy as well as the undergrad elected major! I am as happy that I had to get the philosophy in college as I was that I took typing in high school. The value of both cannot be adequately expressed.
 
Mr Person said:
I actually have a philosophy degree. I credit philosophy with greatly increasing my aptitude in all areas of critical thought, self-expression, and most importantly written or oral argument. If I had not gotten a philosophy degree, I suspect I would not have been nearly as successful in law school and in a career of appellate cases (and other post-conviction litigation).

I think thought and communication are pretty much the most useful and most widely applicable skills a person can have. It's simply on the philosophy major to convince an employer to let them prove themselves.


As for college being watered down: sure, I knew which professors were supposed to be the easy ones and which are the hard ones. I took classes with the hard ones. If someone chooses the easy ones and isn't served by their degree, that's their fault. Not college or humanities in general.
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Of course, going to Law School changes the equation. As would a PHD in Philosophy, Psych or an other "ology." But, as we both know, that option is usually reserved for those graduating at or near the top of their class.

My point is that for someone to begin a career before age 27, it may be better for a marginal student to attend a trade school or find an apprenticeship. Better students, but those who are not super-academically inclined, may be best suited in one of the science or tech majors which lead to jobs with just a 4-year degree.

Engineering, for example, is a reasonable 4-year program that leads to a good job, even if you are just a marginal student in that particular field of study--of course, you have to be a good student in general to even pull C's in that field, but being at the top of the class is not required to find a good paying job. In fact, I know a lot of C-plus engineering students who ended up with MBA's and or MS degrees. They are currently pulling in solid $200K salaries. $100K is pretty much assured, even with just the BS.

Welders, plumbers, electricians, etc all do fairly well without a degree. All do better than a C-student with a Sociology degree. And, that's the issue. Why should a person who can barely pass a simple curriculum like Soc, go to college at all?
 
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