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The Left's Problem With Jews[W:59]

LowDown

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Labour’s national student organisation is launching an inquiry but the “the problem with Jews” on the left is not going away. In January a meeting of the Kings College London Israel Society, gathered to hear from Ami Ayalon, a former head of Shin Bet, the Israeli domestic intelligence service, who now champions a two-state solution, was violently interrupted by a chair-hurling, window-smashing crowd.

Last summer the Guardian columnist Owen Jones made a courageous plea for the left to confront this demon head on. Since then, however, criticism of Israeli government policies has mutated into a rejection of Israel’s right to exist; the Fatah position replaced by Hamas and Hizbollah eliminationism. More darkly, support in the diaspora for Israel’s right to survive is seen by the likes of Labour’s Gerald Kaufman, who accused the government of being influenced in its Middle Eastern policy by “Jewish money”, as some sort of Jewish conspiracy.

There is no light between the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism of the left. It has never been about giving up "occupied" territories. It's about whether Israel should exist at all, whether Jews should have a place to live at all.

Deny a people the right to defend themselves and their homes and you deny them the right to live at all.

The left's problem with Jews has a long and miserable history - FT.com
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

There is no light between the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism of the left. It has never been about giving up "occupied" territories. It's about whether Israel should exist at all, whether Jews should have a place to live at all.

Deny a people the right to defend themselves and their homes and you deny them the right to live at all.

The left's problem with Jews has a long and miserable history - FT.com


There is no "problem with the Jews."

The only issue is whether or not guilt over our political naivete and intentional blindness which allowed the social pogroms and ultimately the Nazi Final Solution pre-1950 is sufficient to keep us offering blind support for the Nation of Israel.

Personally, I think they are perfectly capable of handling their own affairs without the support or interference of the U.S. government. We should stop intervening in the Middle East either for Oil or the sake of Israel. IMO it is time they stood on their own two feet.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

I had a conversation with someone I once worked with who was definitely to the left of me politically. He offered the same lines as we often hear, it's not Jews per se, it's Israel and Israelis he had a problem with. I asked him what, in his mind, it was about Israel that just made them just extra devious and cunning above all the other nations on earth and he started to tell me it was because they really believed themselves to be chosen by God.... Then I reacted to that and he backed off. In retrospect, I wish I had just let him talk.

I, in no way, believe the left as a whole is anti-Semitic. By the same token, I fully acknowledge there is some very ugly anti-Semitism on the right. For better or worse, right-wing anti-Semitism is easy to see and identify. It's not subtle. It's David Duke type crap. Where it exists on the left, it's more camouflaged and explained away as criticism of Israel and yet there's this undercurrent that there's just something extra bad or extra untrustworthy about the population that makes up Israel.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Wait, so criticism of Israel equates to hatred of jews? Is the OP aware of the fact that Bernie Sanders, a favorite of the left, happens to be a jew?
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Wait, so criticism of Israel equates to hatred of jews? Is the OP aware of the fact that Bernie Sanders, a favorite of the left, happens to be a jew?

Why not? Criticism of Obama equates to racism according to some on the left. In fact, I've seen far more innocuous comments regarded and labeled as racism than some comments made about Jews and Israel which are given a complete pass.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

There is no light between the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism of the left. It has never been about giving up "occupied" territories. It's about whether Israel should exist at all, whether Jews should have a place to live at all.

Deny a people the right to defend themselves and their homes and you deny them the right to live at all.

The left's problem with Jews has a long and miserable history - FT.com

Firstly you should make a distinction between anti zionism and anti semitism.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Why not? Criticism of Obama equates to racism according to some on the left. In fact, I've seen far more innocuous comments regarded and labeled as racism than some comments made about Jews and Israel which are given a complete pass.

Which comments?
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Wait, so criticism of Israel equates to hatred of jews? Is the OP aware of the fact that Bernie Sanders, a favorite of the left, happens to be a jew?

Of course they're aware of that fact, it's just that he's the wrong kind of Jew, like Kauffman quoted earlier, and Chomsky, and Finkelstein, and just about any anti-Zionist Jew who pokes his/her head above the parapet.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Why not? Criticism of Obama equates to racism according to some on the left. In fact, I've seen far more innocuous comments regarded and labeled as racism than some comments made about Jews and Israel which are given a complete pass.

In fact the left hardly hates the 'others' but the right has been famous for its racist arguments.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

In fact the left hardly hates the 'others' but the right has been famous for its racist arguments.

Whatever. :roll:


I really need to bow out now. I can feel the sarcasm just wanting to take over.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Why not? Criticism of Obama equates to racism according to some on the left. In fact, I've seen far more innocuous comments regarded and labeled as racism than some comments made about Jews and Israel which are given a complete pass.

show me where anyone ever said "There is no light between being anti-Obama and anti-Black on the right"
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Why not? Criticism of Obama equates to racism according to some on the left.

hey, Hey X!

latest


You're doing it again.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

In fact the left hardly hates the 'others' but the right has been famous for its racist arguments.

Yeah, that's personal bias screaming there if ever I've seen it.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

show me where anyone ever said "There is no light between being anti-Obama and anti-Black on the right"

Let's be real here. Not a single person on the left here is going to acknowledge that any flaw, much less this one, is even possible.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Let's be real here. Not a single person on the left here is going to acknowledge that any flaw, much less this one, is even possible.

nobody ever flat out said if you criticize obama your a racist like the op did, never once
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Yeah, that's personal bias screaming there if ever I've seen it.

the left's motivation comes from 'anti globalist tendencies ,what about Obama haters or other anti Obama people?
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

the left's motivation comes from 'anti globalist tendencies ,what about Obama haters or other anti Obama people?

They hate his policies, his divisive style of politics, his arrogance, and his strawman style of rhetoric.

(Or I guess for you, they just hate a black man with a funny name having power, yeah, that JUST HAAAS to be the reason... /smh )
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

hey, Hey X!

latest


You're doing it again.

Meh, I'm leaving this alone anyway. The immediate reaction to this from the left will be to get defensive and bash the right instead, who will then turn around and get defensive and bash the left. That is my bold prediction for the course of this thread. I'm unsubscribing so let me know later if my crystal ball is, indeed, working.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

They hate his policies, his divisive style of politics, his arrogance, and his strawman style of rhetoric.

(Or I guess for you, they just hate a black man with a funny name having power, yeah, that JUST HAAAS to be the reason... /smh )

When they have Trump or people like Trump as a candidate for presidency ,it may seem logical
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

I opened up the article and the first thing I saw was "Opinion" so I closed it again.
I prefer to discuss facts.
Of which I have few when it comes to Israel vs. Palestinian or other enemies.

My more leftcentric friends tend to point to Israel engaging in and supporting "ethnic cleansing" as a means to remove the threat of Islam. To them, supporting a country which practices "religious genocide" is the same as supporting something similar to the Nazi regime (their words not mine).
IF this is accurate (and I truly don't know that it is) then I can understand this concern.
I do know at one time Israel had a high support among its people for ethnic cleansing but I don't know that this holds true a decade or so later.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

When they have Trump or people like Trump as a candidate for presidency ,it may seem logical

Trump's pulling a lot of non-conservative support. He'd have those same people if he were running as a Dem.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Wait, so criticism of Israel equates to hatred of jews? Is the OP aware of the fact that Bernie Sanders, a favorite of the left, happens to be a jew?

First, the context of the criticism is important. If the criticism is slanted outrageously toward Israel then by nature it will require holding to some very serious double standards and will therefore be highly suggestive of anti-semitic sentiments. Second, anti-semitism is not a Left thing, but it is definitely a growing trend that is coming from the Left.
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

There is no light between the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism of the left. It has never been about giving up "occupied" territories. It's about whether Israel should exist at all, whether Jews should have a place to live at all.

Deny a people the right to defend themselves and their homes and you deny them the right to live at all.

The left's problem with Jews has a long and miserable history - FT.com
Re Your last sentence

Is that not what Israel is doing to the Palestinians?

Why does the right want to deny the same rights to Palestinians that they claim the left wants to deny Israelis
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

First, the context of the criticism is important. If the criticism is slanted outrageously toward Israel then by nature it will require holding to some very serious double standards and will therefore be highly suggestive of anti-semitic sentiments. Second, anti-semitism is not a Left thing, but it is definitely a growing trend that is coming from the Left.

Anti Semitism, I doubt is growing among the left as American Jews tend to be left leaning towards domestic politics. Criticism of Israel, definitely is higher among the American left then the right. Especially in US post secondary schools, I strongly doubt those student groups are anti Semitic as they are most likely the groups protesting against racism, sexism, and so on. Now I expect some will say why are they not protesting against countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Russia, I am sure many do. But like protests against South Africa, they might be targeting a foreign government that perhaps could be changed from western public opinion
 
Re: The Left's Problem With Jews

Wait, so criticism of Israel equates to hatred of jews? Is the OP aware of the fact that Bernie Sanders, a favorite of the left, happens to be a jew?

Sanders isn't anti-Israel. In fact his refusal to take a hard line against Israel earned him critics on the hard left.
 
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