If Voter ID is racist, what is keeping races from getting Voter ID?[W:243,567]

JasperL said:

Nothing is hypothetical. The rules changes have been passed and are in place, and being fought in the courts.

And I don't have a problem with "IDs" being required. I do oppose rules that narrow the list of acceptable ID to State or Federally Issued Photo IDs with Current Address, but excluding (for example) student photo IDs. The new IDs are a solution in search of a problem.

Further, I do worry quite a bit about election fraud, but the place to focus isn't the place where the least amount of fraud occurs - impersonation fraud at the polls which is trivial - but with absentee ballots that DO introduce the opportunity for mostly undetectable fraudulent votes. And when I vote on an electronic machine that cannot be audited or recounted, I'm aware that high school students can hack those machines and switch the votes in any way that the people in charge of the machines want.

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However, there is no evidence that hackers have ever manipulated votes in a U.S. election, experts say. And many election officials insist security concerns about voting machines are overblown. They say that security on Election Day is much stricter than, say, what a team of computer scientists with unlimited time in a laboratory might face to hack a voting machine.

"It's important to keep in mind that having full and open access to these systems is quite different than how these systems are available to voters on Election Day," said Jessica Myers, a voting systems certification specialist at U.S. Election Assistance Commission, which certifies e-voting machines.

Butler County, Ohio -- in a key swing state with more than 240,000 registered voters -- has been using AccuVote machines since 2005, according to Lynn Kinkaid, director of the county board of elections. One reason they still use the machines is that "elderly people like them because you can enlarge the print," he said.

Kinkaid said the county's e-voting machines are tested before each election, encrypted and not connected to the Internet.

"We are very sure our machines are safe and secure," he said.

Lehigh County, Pa., which has about 236,000 registered voters in another swing state, has been using Accuvote voting machines since 2006, according to Tim Benyo, the county's chief clerk for registration and elections.

Benyo said the county's e-voting machines are certified by the state, and prior to Election Day, they are locked, sealed and never left alone. He said there have been "slight modifications" to the machines' software over the years, "but nothing drastic."

"I am familiar with some reports of them being able to be hacked," Benyo said. "But my concerns are limited because these machines are not left alone with anybody for a long enough period of time."

Electronic Voting Machines Still Widely Used Despite Security Concerns

ObamacareFail said:

So what you are mainly concerned about is "democrat votes"? So much for pure motives.

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I'm not a child, and so I can recognize that the voting rules changes passed by republicans are intended to help republicans in elections. And I can also recognize that democratic efforts to roll back those changes are motivated by an attempt to keep mainly democratic voters eligible to cast legitimate ballots.

There is no hinderance whatsoever in the way of any law abiding US Citizen obtaining a drivers license or state ID.

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Well, sure there are. They've been addressed many times. No point doing so again.

In your own way you are admitting that you are only concerned with early voting because you feel it's an advantage to democrats. At least my motives are non-partisan. I just like the old system of voting on election day or by absentee ballot. I am not looking to give either side an advantage or disadvantage. You clearly are.

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No, I like early voting because there are many, many reasons why a person might not be able to vote between 7am and 7pm (as I recall) in my area on the first Tuesday of November. Kids, work, soccer, sickness, unexpected trip for work, etc. and so I've voted early MANY times and believe it's a good thing to make voting convenient so more people can take part. At a minimum, if we want voting only on Tuesdays during work hours, it should be a national holiday, but nowawdays that's not much progress because even on holidays like Christmas businesses are open and so some large number will be on duty for most of all the hours the polls are open. My brother routinely works 8am to 8pm and his business is open 24/7 365.

But, sure, I'm for early voting on Sundays because that's good for democratic voters. GOPers oppose early voting on Sundays for the same reason. Only people unwilling to admit the obvious can't admit that.

I don't really care how you take the story posted on Breitbart. I have no idea how old you are. If you were an adult during the 2000 election then you likely know the story is true. it was in the news at the time. You can take it or leave it.

Yeah...like the democrats requesting hand recounts only in four democrat controlled precincts....inventing counting methods on the fly and then requesting endless recounts until the US Supremes stopped them.

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I'm not sure what your point is, but you sure avoided the voting roll purges like a hot potato!

And the democrats registered names from cemetaries and their pets. What's your point?

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And how many Fidos voted? How many dead people voted? Those CAN be checked, you know, and for some reason prosecutors make these inflammatory allegations and they're never followed up with actual allegations of documented fraud, much less prosecutions, beyond a handful or so per year per state.

You are the one looking for advantage anyway you can get it. I just want fair and legitimate elections.

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Give me a break. It's hilarious that you can't admit the obvious - GOP voting rules changes are intended to help republicans. If you can't admit that, there really isn't any point is debating because you refuse to let reality intervene into the discussion.

ObamacareFail said:

I think a valid photo ID should be required at both registration and the voting booth. And with the exception of legitimate absentee ballots, I do not believe in voting by mail or registration by mail.

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Why not?? It increases voter participation (especiually in rural areas, among the elderly and those with jobs that make getting to a voting booth extremely difficult), eliminates exit polling, cuts cost and is no more susceptible to fraud than voting in person. I also believe that registration should be done in person by the simple tactic of doing it when a valid state issued ID is obtained. Tie the person's address on thier ID to the address the ballot gets sent to.

JasperL said:

But it's often not going to be free, so it's a moot point.

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Then contact your congresscritter and demand that free state issued ID be made part of the bill requiring ID to vote/register.

recalcitrant said:

Why can't minorities get Voter ID? What keeps from getting a Voter ID?

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Voter ID is about just showing your drivers license or state ID at the door; the same ID you should already have anyway because it's hard even to get a job without.

All these 'minorities' the Left is crying about are literally people who are to stupid, lazy, or illegal to get a state ID or drivers license.

I don't want that kind of person voting anyway.

recalcitrant said:

Still trying to figure out what that cost is. Is it just transportation?

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The cost is the price your state charges for a standard ID plus a cab ride to DMV. Depending on your state, $20-$50 total.

Of course if you don't have basic documents like your birth certificate or SS card, you will need to pay to get those as well, but you need to get those anyway just to have a job.

Muhammed said:

Exactly, because all they really want is to keep it easy to commit voter fraud.

And since Democrats tend to be less moral than Republicans of course the fraud is going to benefit the Democrats.

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Lunacy.

Grand Mal said:

Lunacy.

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Then how do you explain the fact that they are fighting so hard against protecting the integrity of our electoral system?

And please spare me the "poor and low income black people" excuses, because they are as phony as a $3 bill.... Because if they were really so poor, they would be on some type of government assistance and the only way they could apply for and collect that assistance, is by having a legal state or federal ID card.

Grim17 said:

Then how do you explain the fact that they are fighting so hard against protecting the integrity of our electoral system?

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Who is, Democrats? You explain it as a morality thing, Democrats want to steal elections (coughFloridaBushcough) because they're less moral than Republicans?
Damn, I wish my world were as simple as yours, but then I'd probably suffer from the same two-dimensional thinking that you're struggling with.

Grim17 said:

And please spare me the "poor and low income black people" excuses, because they are as phony as a $3 bill.... Because if they were really so poor, they would be on some type of government assistance and the only way they could apply for and collect that assistance, is by having a legal state or federal ID card.

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Grand Mal said:

Who is, Democrats? You explain it as a morality thing, Democrats want to steal elections (coughFloridaBushcough) because they're less moral than Republicans?
Damn, I wish my world were as simple as yours, but then I'd probably suffer from the same two-dimensional thinking that you're struggling with.

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I just asked you to explain why Democrats and their supporters are fighting so hard against efforts to preserve the integrity of our electoral process, because their excuse about it disenfranchising low income black people just doesn't hold water... Unless of course the left believes black people are lazy or not mentally capable of getting an ID like 100's of millions of other Americans.

Grim17 said:

I just asked you to explain why Democrats and their supporters are fighting so hard against efforts to preserve the integrity of our electoral process, because their excuse about it disenfranchising low income black people just doesn't hold water... Unless of course the left believes black people are lazy or not mentally capable of getting an ID like 100's of millions of other Americans.

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I don't know anything about that, I was replying to " Democrats tend to be less moral than Republicans" from 'Muhammed' and then you beaked off supporting his lunacy.

Grim17 said:

I just asked you to explain why Democrats and their supporters are fighting so hard against efforts to preserve the integrity of our electoral process, because their excuse about it disenfranchising low income black people just doesn't hold water... Unless of course the left believes black people are lazy or not mentally capable of getting an ID like 100's of millions of other Americans.

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Imagine Democrat's outcry if you had to get an ID to carry a gun.

Grand Mal said:

I don't know anything about that, I was replying to " Democrats tend to be less moral than Republicans" from 'Muhammed' and then you beaked off supporting his lunacy.

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Sorry, but I assumed your comment and the comment you quoted was about the topic of this thread...

Grim17 said:

Sorry, but I assumed your comment and the comment you quoted was about the topic of this thread...

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Nah, I almost never pay attention to the topic of the thread.

PeteEU said:

The problem is not the idea of voter ID, but how it is often implemented by the GOP run states. The rules are designed to be exclusive and target minorities and elderly. Any voter ID system should be inclusive. Any official ID with a picture should be enough but that is not what GOP states often do and they often place a restrictive cost on issuing an official ID to vote.

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I'm not aware of any ID made specifically for voting. An obligatory Google search for such a thing did not yield any results, either.

Most states with voter ID laws will accept all kinds of non-photo identification, to include a utility bill, a bank statement, or social security card.

The states which do require a photo ID will accept any government issued ID such as a drivers license, military ID, VA card, tribal ID, etc.

I have a special ID specifically for carrying a firearm, but to the best of my knowledge there is no special ID to vote; you just have to have one of the many photo-IDs out there. (ironically, I can use my firearm permit to vote, but not to carry a firearm while voting; I used my firearm permit to get a PO box, but I can't carry the firearm the permit is for while checking that PO box)

I guess there's more to this topic than I was ware. If you could link to an ID which a state makes specifically for voting I would appreciate it.

Jerry said:

Voter ID is about just showing your drivers license or state ID at the door; the same ID you should already have anyway because it's hard even to get a job without.

All these 'minorities' the Left is crying about are literally people who are to stupid, lazy, or illegal to get a state ID or drivers license.

I don't want that kind of person voting anyway.

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I think that's the first honest comment by a right winger in this entire thread.

The first part of it is wrong - it's not hard to get a job without a State or Federally Issued Photo ID with Current Address - but it's nice to see someone admit part of the rationale behind Photo ID rules.

JasperL said:

Nothing is hypothetical. The rules changes have been passed and are in place, and being fought in the courts.

And I don't have a problem with "IDs" being required. I do oppose rules that narrow the list of acceptable ID to State or Federally Issued Photo IDs with Current Address, but excluding (for example) student photo IDs. The new IDs are a solution in search of a problem.

Further, I do worry quite a bit about election fraud, but the place to focus isn't the place where the least amount of fraud occurs - impersonation fraud at the polls which is trivial - but with absentee ballots that DO introduce the opportunity for mostly undetectable fraudulent votes. And when I vote on an electronic machine that cannot be audited or recounted, I'm aware that high school students can hack those machines and switch the votes in any way that the people in charge of the machines want.

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None of that is the topic though. It was "Why can't minorities get Voter ID? What keeps from getting a Voter ID?" You seem to agree they can.

JasperL said:

I'm not a child, and so I can recognize that the voting rules changes passed by republicans are intended to help republicans in elections. And I can also recognize that democratic efforts to roll back those changes are motivated by an attempt to keep mainly democratic voters eligible to cast legitimate ballots.

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Once again, it's your way of admitting that you are just looking for democrat party advantages.

Well, sure there are. They've been addressed many times. No point doing so again.

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Simply not true. There are no obstacles whatsoever preventing any law abiding American citizen from obtaining valid photo ID. To suggest that there are is simply an outright bald faced lie.

No, I like early voting because there are many, many reasons why a person might not be able to vote between 7am and 7pm (as I recall) in my area on the first Tuesday of November. Kids, work, soccer, sickness, unexpected trip for work, etc. and so I've voted early MANY times and believe it's a good thing to make voting convenient so more people can take part. At a minimum, if we want voting only on Tuesdays during work hours, it should be a national holiday, but nowawdays that's not much progress because even on holidays like Christmas businesses are open and so some large number will be on duty for most of all the hours the polls are open. My brother routinely works 8am to 8pm and his business is open 24/7 365.

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I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you have heard of absentee balloting. There is no need for extra days for polling places to be open. You are simply in favor of early voting because you think it's an advantage to democrats.

But, sure, I'm for early voting on Sundays because that's good for democratic voters. GOPers oppose early voting on Sundays for the same reason. Only people unwilling to admit the obvious can't admit that.

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I am an independent. You are the partisan. You are looking for advantage. I am looking for traditional fair elections....where everyone who is eligible to vote and does not vote by absentee ballot votes on election day as was the tradition for over 200 years.

I'm not sure what your point is, but you sure avoided the voting roll purges like a hot potato!

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At least those purges were done with the intention of keeping felons from voting. But then I suppose you see felons voting as just another advantage for democrats.

And how many Fidos voted? How many dead people voted? Those CAN be checked, you know, and for some reason prosecutors make these inflammatory allegations and they're never followed up with actual allegations of documented fraud, much less prosecutions, beyond a handful or so per year per state.

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I suppose you are going to play dumb just like you did on the lawyers disqualifying military ballots. I don't doubt that you are aware that it occurs.

Give me a break. It's hilarious that you can't admit the obvious - GOP voting rules changes are intended to help republicans. If you can't admit that, there really isn't any point is debating because you refuse to let reality intervene into the discussion.

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Whatever. We are coming at this issue with different motives. You are just looking for democrat party advantages. I just want free and fair elections without voter fraud. At least my motivations are pure. Have a nice day.

faithful_servant said:

Why not?? It increases voter participation (especiually in rural areas, among the elderly and those with jobs that make getting to a voting booth extremely difficult), eliminates exit polling, cuts cost and is no more susceptible to fraud than voting in person. I also believe that registration should be done in person by the simple tactic of doing it when a valid state issued ID is obtained. Tie the person's address on thier ID to the address the ballot gets sent to.

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Anyone who cannot get to the polls on election day has the option of absentee ballots.

Jerry said:

Voter ID is about just showing your drivers license or state ID at the door; the same ID you should already have anyway because it's hard even to get a job without.

All these 'minorities' the Left is crying about are literally people who are to stupid, lazy, or illegal to get a state ID or drivers license.

I don't want that kind of person voting anyway.

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I think it's just a matter of the liberals not wanting voters to be required to show a photo ID because they see fraudulent voting as just another advantage to democrats.

Grim17 said:

I just asked you to explain why Democrats and their supporters are fighting so hard against efforts to preserve the integrity of our electoral process, because their excuse about it disenfranchising low income black people just doesn't hold water... Unless of course the left believes black people are lazy or not mentally capable of getting an ID like 100's of millions of other Americans.

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They are basically lying. It's not about any difficulty obtaining IDs They are perfectly aware that the minorities and elderly they speak of do have valid photo IDs. They just do not want them to have to show them at the polling places. It gets in the way of fraudulent voting.

JasperL said:

I think that's the first honest comment by a right winger in this entire thread.

The first part of it is wrong - it's not hard to get a job without a State or Federally Issued Photo ID with Current Address - but it's nice to see someone admit part of the rationale behind Photo ID rules.

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Every place I have ever applied for a job has asked for at least a drivers license or photo ID. And I am 60. The businesses that intentionally hire illegals do not count. They are lawbreakers.

NotreDame said:

You need to read the links. You have yet to make a logical, lucid, or rational argument much less any argument citing to specific facts or specific evidence that rationally reasonably support your claim. The only vacuous posts so far have been your own, primarily because you seem to think "read the links" constitutes as evidence for your argument.

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I have read the links. That's how I know you have not. Everything you have said clearly shows an ignorance of what is contained in them.

Read the links.

tres borrachos said:

So then the issue isn't the cost of the IDs, it's getting a ride to buy them. Then how is that a racist problem (hint - it isn't)?

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The problem is the cost of obtaining one. Just because you wish to be obtuse, it doesn't change the fact travel, documents and losing work costs money. As far as the "racist" part of it, I've already answered that. Read the thread.

TurtleDude said:

you appear to be making racist assumptions-

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No, I'm just noting how you used the same rationale which was given to keep black people from voting. I think it speaks volumes.

ObamacareFail said:

Name the provisions you are speaking of.

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I have. I've provided links to them. Read the thread.

If Voter ID is racist, what is keeping races from getting Voter ID?[W:243]

Slyfox696 said:

I have read the links. That's how I know you have not. Everything you have said clearly shows an ignorance of what is contained in them.

Read the links.
.

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Same illogical argument as espoused before. A broken record played repeatedly doesn't fix the error in the record, and likewise repeating the same illogical and irrational argument repeatedly doesn't fix the error in the argument. Your position is completely devoid of logical reasoning. Read a logical reasoning book.

NotreDame said:

Same illogical argument as espoused before.

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I think it's funny you refuse to read the links which contain the evidence you want me to provide and then have the audacity to say I'm presenting the same illogical argument.

In what world is telling someone to find their own answers in the information I'VE PROVIDED illogical? I'm sorry if you're too lazy to simply read, but the evidence you're looking for is there. Read the links.

Your position shows an ignorance of logical reasoning.

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No, it shows I have no desire to hold your hand because you're too damn lazy to find your own answers, when I've already done the research for you. This isn't kindergarten, learn to help yourself. You have the information in front of you, now read the links.