Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama

US Conservative · May 16, 2014

Amid contrived outrage over Benghazi and the improving fortunes of its healthcare reform, the Obama administration could be facing a genuine scandal about its treatment of military veterans that has the potential to attract broad political condemnation of its competence.

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The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is facing mounting evidence that some of the hospitals it runs have been keeping two sets of books to make it look as if they were reducing waiting times to see a doctor.
More damning, the department is investigating the claims of a whistleblower doctor in Arizona that dozens of patients at one hospital died while they were languishing on a hidden waiting list without ever being given an appointment...

Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama - FT.com

Interestingly enough I recall leftists citing the VA as evidence of great govt run healthcare before the ACA. Seems like another disaster on Obama's watch, I dont think our fighting men and women deserve this treatment-some were essentially left to die. :doh

Philly Boss · May 16, 2014

lol cons suddenly care about veterans

US Conservative · May 16, 2014

Philly Boss said:
lol cons suddenly care about veterans

Conservatives have always cared about vets, and fact most vets are conservative.
Military Veterans of All Ages Tend to Be More Republican

Iraq and Afghan vets are conservative. But, they’re not all Republicans.

And I dont think the "lol" is appropriate, do you think the way veterans are being treated is funny?

Philly Boss · May 16, 2014

nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though

Perotista · May 16, 2014

US Conservative said:
Amid contrived outrage over Benghazi and the improving fortunes of its healthcare reform, the Obama administration could be facing a genuine scandal about its treatment of military veterans that has the potential to attract broad political condemnation of its competence.

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is facing mounting evidence that some of the hospitals it runs have been keeping two sets of books to make it look as if they were reducing waiting times to see a doctor.
More damning, the department is investigating the claims of a whistleblower doctor in Arizona that dozens of patients at one hospital died while they were languishing on a hidden waiting list without ever being given an appointment...

Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama - FT.com

Interestingly enough I recall leftists citing the VA as evidence of great govt run healthcare before the ACA. Seems like another disaster on Obama's watch, I dont think our fighting men and women deserve this treatment-some were essentially left to die. :doh

There is no better example of government run health care than the VA. Now the VA has always been very slow in the handling of disability claims and at time it could take years. On the doctor side of things, they have been pretty good. But long waiting times to see a doctor has always been there. But that doesn't make it right.

US Conservative · May 16, 2014

Perotista said:
There is no better example of government run health care than the VA. Now the VA has always been very slow in the handling of disability claims and at time it could take years. On the doctor side of things, they have been pretty good. But long waiting times to see a doctor has always been there. But that doesn't make it right.

No it doesn't make it right. In fact it appears people may have died because of those waiting times. There are many soon to be veterans out there who dont deserve the delays either.

Respecthelect · May 16, 2014

VA's budget is $164B and they served 4.3M veteran's in 2012. That works out to $38k per veteran per year. $38k is enough to buy gold-plated health insurance plus deductibles and have most of it left over.

Simple fix - pass this new VA law:

114th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 9999

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

Some future date, 2015
Received

Some future date, 2015

AN ACT

To authorize Department of Veterans Affairs to fund individual medical savings accounts.

1. Intent - Summary
Veteran's Administration shall authorize duly qualified veterans to receive benefits through privately administered medical savings accounts.

2. Be it Resolved,

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall qualify Medical Savings accounts through Banks and Brokerage firms under the following guidelines:
. • Accounts shall be created as medical savings accounts (MSA) with the qualified veteran as the beneficiary.
. . - Trustees, acting on behalf of the beneficiary shall be allowed.
. • Credit and-or Debit cards tied to the MSA will be the preferred method for segregating, tracking and record keeping for authorized medical expenses.
. • The VA shall retain the right to audit MSA's and setup administrative procedures to ensure proper use of MSA's

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall offer the option for veteran's to opt-out of standard VA care and opt-into MSA's.
. • Payments shall be placed in qualified MSA's according to disability and per-veteran budget without prejudice (opt-in vs opt-out).
. • Veteran's opting for MSA's shall receive a full measure, defined by calculating gross VA budget, divided by the number of overall qualified beneficiaries.
. • The VA may withhold no more than 5% for administrative cost for veterans opting-into MSA.
. • No lifetime or other cap or max-limit shall be placed on MSA's.
. • MSA's surviving death of the veteran shall pass and convert to private MSA's to the veteran's family members, through normal probate.
. • Death of the veteran shall end benefits as currently proscribed and according to current law (children continuing to receive benefits through majority)

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall define disallowed categories of expenses, with the emphasis on allowing the broadest latitude given to veteran care.
. • Private Medical Insurance shall be allowed.
. • Direct doctor and hospital expenses shall be allowed.
. • Other medical expenses, such as prescriptions, prescription insurance plans, and medical pharmacy expenses shall be allowed.

Veteran's opting for MSA's and their families shall be responsible for obtaining medical care through their MSA stipend.
. • Care at VA facilities will not be guaranteed for those choosing MSA's
. • The intent is to privatize care and the veteran should take steps to prepare for all medical contingencies.
. • If the veteran is not comfortable managing his or her own health care, he (or she) is free to remain within the VA hospital system.
. • Repeated abuse of MSA's may be referred for civil prosecution.
. • Re-entry out of MSA and back into the VA system shall require forfeiture of unexpended MSA funds and may require other formal re-entry procedures.

Respecthelect · May 16, 2014

This law serves the dual purpose of 1) fixing VA health care and 2) being a model for how government should get out of the service providing business.

ttwtt78640 · May 16, 2014

Perotista said:
There is no better example of government run health care than the VA. Now the VA has always been very slow in the handling of disability claims and at time it could take years. On the doctor side of things, they have been pretty good. But long waiting times to see a doctor has always been there. But that doesn't make it right.

Part of the issue is the ever relaxed standards for qualification of VA benefits. Especially in times of war (now a constant with the endless "war on terror") congress critters (of both parties) trip over one another to add VA benefits yet do not actually fund them.

The Department of Veterans Affairs was created due to nearly one third of the population being eligible for veterans benefits.

United States Department of Veterans Affairs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perotista · May 16, 2014

US Conservative said:
No it doesn't make it right. In fact it appears people may have died because of those waiting times. There are many soon to be veterans out there who dont deserve the delays either.

I retired from active duty in 1986, VA has always ran at a snails pace. What is different here is that rules and regulations were put in place to speed up that snails pace, when the system couldn't do that people tried phantom lists and other ways to get around the new regulations that were put in place.

Instead of bonus's these people received, they should be facing criminal charges. A through investigation takes time. I would feel better if that investigation was done by someone outside the VA. Having the VA IG conduct an investigation is still having the same agency accused of wrong doing investigating itself. You can bet if Nixon had his AG investigate Watergate his AG would have exonerated him. This investigating yourself has to cease.

Do I trust the state departments internal review/investigation on Benghazi, no.
Do I rust Christie own review or investigation on Bridgegate, no.

These types of investigations/review are done to exonerate those they are investigating. Not to get at the truth. You want the truth, appoint a special investigator with all the powers needed.

US Conservative · May 16, 2014

Respecthelect said:
VA's budget is $164B and they served 4.3M veteran's in 2012. That works out to $38k per veteran per year. $38k is enough to buy gold-plated health insurance plus deductibles and have most of it left over.

Simple fix - pass this new VA law:

114th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 9999

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

Some future date, 2015
Received

Some future date, 2015

AN ACT

To authorize Department of Veterans Affairs to fund individual medical savings accounts.

1. Intent - Summary
Veteran's Administration shall authorize duly qualified veterans to receive benefits through privately administered medical savings accounts.

2. Be it Resolved,

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall qualify Medical Savings accounts through Banks and Brokerage firms under the following guidelines:
. • Accounts shall be created as medical savings accounts (MSA) with the qualified veteran as the beneficiary.
. . - Trustees, acting on behalf of the beneficiary shall be allowed.
. • Credit and-or Debit cards tied to the MSA will be the preferred method for segregating, tracking and record keeping for authorized medical expenses.
. • The VA shall retain the right to audit MSA's and setup administrative procedures to ensure proper use of MSA's

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall offer the option for veteran's to opt-out of standard VA care and opt-into MSA's.
. • Payments shall be placed in qualified MSA's according to disability and per-veteran budget without prejudice (opt-in vs opt-out).
. • Veteran's opting for MSA's shall receive a full measure, defined by calculating gross VA budget, divided by the number of overall qualified beneficiaries.
. • The VA may withhold no more than 5% for administrative cost for veterans opting-into MSA.
. • No lifetime or other cap or max-limit shall be placed on MSA's.
. • MSA's surviving death of the veteran shall pass and convert to private MSA's to the veteran's family members, through normal probate.
. • Death of the veteran shall end benefits as currently proscribed and according to current law (children continuing to receive benefits through majority)

The Secretary of Veterans Affairs shall define disallowed categories of expenses, with the emphasis on allowing the broadest latitude given to veteran care.
. • Private Medical Insurance shall be allowed.
. • Direct doctor and hospital expenses shall be allowed.
. • Other medical expenses, such as prescriptions, prescription insurance plans, and medical pharmacy expenses shall be allowed.

Veteran's opting for MSA's and their families shall be responsible for obtaining medical care through their MSA stipend.
. • Care at VA facilities will not be guaranteed for those choosing MSA's
. • The intent is to privatize care and the veteran should take steps to prepare for all medical contingencies.
. • If the veteran is not comfortable managing his or her own health care, he (or she) is free to remain within the VA hospital system.
. • Repeated abuse of MSA's may be referred for civil prosecution.
. • Re-entry out of MSA and back into the VA system shall require forfeiture of unexpended MSA funds and may require other formal re-entry procedures.

Those costs are insane, granted some severe injuries would be quite expensive to treat and manage but 38k per year? For these delays and people dying on waiting lists?

Insane.

Arbo · May 16, 2014

Philly Boss said:
nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though

God forbid anyone question an administration you support. Man up and changed that 'undisclosed'.

Yes, this is horrible, and the government waste as mentioned (38k a vet) is horrible. But until we can get the majority of citizens to give a crap that their government (both sides) is continually screwing us over for THEIR own benefit, nothing will change.

Philly Boss · May 16, 2014

Arbo said:
God forbid anyone question an administration you support. Man up and changed that 'undisclosed'.

Yes, this is horrible, and the government waste as mentioned (38k a vet) is horrible. But until we can get the majority of citizens to give a crap that their government (both sides) is continually screwing us over for THEIR own benefit, nothing will change.

what administration do i support?

CalGun · May 16, 2014

It would seem the VA offices in AZ are an example of future Obamacare death panels.

US Conservative said:
Amid contrived outrage over Benghazi and the improving fortunes of its healthcare reform, the Obama administration could be facing a genuine scandal about its treatment of military veterans that has the potential to attract broad political condemnation of its competence.

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is facing mounting evidence that some of the hospitals it runs have been keeping two sets of books to make it look as if they were reducing waiting times to see a doctor.
More damning, the department is investigating the claims of a whistleblower doctor in Arizona that dozens of patients at one hospital died while they were languishing on a hidden waiting list without ever being given an appointment...

Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama - FT.com

Interestingly enough I recall leftists citing the VA as evidence of great govt run healthcare before the ACA. Seems like another disaster on Obama's watch, I dont think our fighting men and women deserve this treatment-some were essentially left to die. :doh

Perotista · May 16, 2014

ttwtt78640 said:
Part of the issue is the ever relaxed standards for qualification of VA benefits. Especially in times of war (now a constant with the endless "war on terror") congress critters (of both partie)s trip over one another to add VA benefits yet do not actually fund them.

United States Department of Veterans Affairs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Expanded benefits without funding them has been congress's bane for 50 plus years or more. I am not talking just about the VA, but every other program to include social security, medicare etc and on and on. You are right across the board.

Arbo · May 16, 2014

Philly Boss said:
what administration do i support?

Your use of 'cons' give's you away, along with nothing but a drive by posting meant to derail.

Philly Boss · May 16, 2014

Arbo said:
Your use of 'cons' give's you away, along with nothing but a drive by posting meant to derail.

So in other words you have no idea. Run along now.

Arbo · May 16, 2014

Philly Boss said:
So in other words you have no idea. Run along now.

Ah yes, the same failure of a tactic that so many others use. I will come and go as I see fit, not at your desire, as what you desire is meaningless to the majority of the planet. But keep up trying to cover for your silly drive by 'cons' posting that added nothing to the discussion, I find it hysterical. No doubt you believe some will fall for your nonsense.

Philly Boss · May 16, 2014

Arbo said:
Ah yes, the same failure of a tactic that so many others use. I will come and go as I see fit, not at your desire, as what you desire is meaningless to the majority of the planet. But keep up trying to cover for your silly drive by 'cons' posting that added nothing to the discussion, I find it hysterical. No doubt you believe some will fall for your nonsense.

Unlike you, I don't fall for the empty talking points of either party. Do not assume my dismissal of this pathetic, desperate ploy as an endorsement of those it targets.

Arbo · May 17, 2014

Philly Boss said:
Unlike you, I don't fall for the empty talking points of either party. Do not assume my dismissal of this pathetic, desperate ploy as an endorsement of those it targets.

Of course you don't fall for it, that's why you run around using terms like 'cons'. LOL.. man, keep the laughter going! You can't make up stuff this good!

As to your last part, it would make sense you don't care about our vets, it follows the same line of thinking those that use 'cons' generally use…

Philly Boss · May 17, 2014

Arbo said:
Of course you don't fall for it, that's why you run around using terms like 'cons'. LOL.. man, keep the laughter going! You can't make up stuff this good!

As to your last part, it would make sense you don't care about our vets, it follows the same line of thinking those that use 'cons' generally use…

What line of thinking is that? Why are you so afraid to speak in specifics? You still can't even tell me what I support, yet you judge me to be just like the others who support whatever it is I support.

Arbo · May 17, 2014

Philly Boss said:
What line of thinking is that? Why are you so afraid to speak in specifics? You still can't even tell me what I support, yet you judge me to be just like the others who support whatever it is I support.

Your attempt at diversion is failing. I'm sure you are used to that though. Do you actually have anything to say about the story in the op other than 'cons'?

I didn't think so, no data points to support or refute, nothing of substance.

Have a good day, have wasted enough time with your diversions.

Philly Boss · May 17, 2014

Arbo said:
Your attempt at diversion is failing. I'm sure you are used to that though. Do you actually have anything to say about the story in the op other than 'cons'?

I didn't think so, no data points to support or refute, nothing of substance.

Have a good day, have wasted enough time with your diversions.

But it's not my diversion. You're the one refusing to answer a simple question.

Respecthelect · May 17, 2014

US Conservative said:
Those costs are insane, granted some severe injuries would be quite expensive to treat and manage but 38k per year? For these delays and people dying on waiting lists?

Oh, but it's so much worse than one might imagine, because the 4 million served include scraped knees and sniffles. One imagines 4 million wheelchair or hospital-bed cases, but most are walking disabled. Many have private or other insurance as well. What it points out is that vets are not receiving $38k worth of health care. On average, they may be receiving the equivalent of $2k each. The rest goes into the bureaucracy, paying administrators.

We all see McCains' fake outrage. We all know the VA has been like this for decades. In this new world of mobs, torches and pitchforks, somebody decided to attack the VA. But, like all mobs, not in any rational way. We should take the opportunity to privatize the VA. The law above is one page. Pass this simple one-page law and the VA is fixed forever. No "firings." No fake outrage. Fixed - no fuss, no muss.

US Conservative · May 17, 2014

Respecthelect said:
Oh, but it's so much worse than one might imagine, because the 4 million served include scraped knees and sniffles. One imagines 4 million wheelchair or hospital-bed cases, but most are walking disabled. Many have private or other insurance as well. What it points out is that vets are not receiving $38k worth of health care. On average, they may be receiving the equivalent of $2k each. The rest goes into the bureaucracy, paying administrators.

We all see McCains' fake outrage. We all know the VA has been like this for decades. In this new world of mobs, torches and pitchforks, somebody decided to attack the VA. But, like all mobs, not in any rational way. We should take the opportunity to privatize the VA. The law above is one page. Pass this simple one-page law and the VA is fixed forever. No "firings." No fake outrage. Fixed - no fuss, no muss.

Seems rational. Forking money over into another failed govt bureaucracy isn't the answer, I think.

Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama

Sometimes wrong