Can the GOP Win the Senate and What Will They Accomplish?

jaeger19 said:

Nope.. not on board with it at all. It will not only cost the GOP bigtime in 2016 and push us toward irrelevancy.. but it will damage the country as well.

That being said... I don't think that either side has any clue right now how to solve the problems we have in this country and any legislation that they CAN agree on... probably sucks swamp water because as I stated about all they can agree on is that they want to make money and have a good lobbying job when they leave Congress.

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I enjoy posting to you--before I tell you of my support for Sen. Coburn's back-in-black plan of 2011,
Simpson/Bowles and a lot of Paul Ryan's ideas--
here's a nugget on the possible make-up of the Senate that will rock it to its core in ways we've never seen in the modern era.

Kansas currently has a 4-man race, with GOP Roberts leading DEM Taylor followed by an Independent Orman then a Libertarian ??.
There's even been talk of the DEM dropping out but he denies it.

My point is that if Orman the Indy wins, there'll be 3 independents counting Sanders and King.
King is already supporting the Indy for governor in Maine right now and has made noises of switching sides--danarhea's prediction.
And Sanders currently has a wild hair up his ass, visiting several southern states gauging a run for President as a Dem or Indy.

If neither party has 50 Senators, these three will determine what happens on everything.
Then I believe you'll see the reforming of "gangs", as we saw with Senators like Portman and Collins from the GOP and Manchin and let's say Kaine from VA .

NIMBY said:

I don't call Reagan getting his and O'Neill getting his governing at all.
I do call it the first time we ever had deficits over 400 billion, which we are close to being down to now.

I would be glad to slam O'Neill for his part but then GOPs would move the goalposts,
and still blame Obama for everything from day one, including 2.2 million jobs lost in his first three months .

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And the blame Obama for everything since day one.. doesn't play on a national stage.. only local ones.. in primaries mostly. Unfortunately.. its the fear of the primary that currently rules the roost.

All I've been watching is ads from GOP candidates like Cotton and McConnell, to list two, merging Pryor and Grimes with Obama.
This is why I believe DEMs should run TOWARD Obama since they're gonna get called out anyway.
If I were a GOP ad man, I'd also slam weak-kneed DEMs for running away from their President on top of the rest .

jaeger19 said:

And the blame Obama for everything since day one.. doesn't play on a national stage.. only local ones.. in primaries mostly. Unfortunately.. its the fear of the primary that currently rules the roost.

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jaeger19 said:

The climate was different.. the electoral map when it comes to primaries was different. Now its a lot more about what you are against.. than what you are for. And I sorry to say.. I think racism played a roll. Nobody was claiming Reagan was a communist from Africa. That's not what the country was focused on.

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I think a lot of the animosity occurred because of the way the ACA was pushed through congress. But even so, one must remember December of 2010 in the lame duck congress in which both sides used compromise to get things done. The Republicans let DADT become history and the START treaty was approved along with an extension of the Bush Era Tax cuts. There was probably more but these are what I remember off the top of my head.

Then in January both sides dug in their heels. That is when the climate changed. In 2006 when the Democrats took back congress they defeated a lot of the more moderate Republicans and defeated a few more in 2008. Replacing them were more liberal hard core Democrats. Then in 2010 the blue dog democrats, the more moderate ones were the ones who lost. They were replaced by the Tea Party type Republicans. President Obama really didn't demonize the Republicans in his first two years either. He didn't need to with his huge almost super majorities he had in congress.

Also unlike Reagan who reached out across the aisle to Tip O'Neal, like Eisenhower did to LBJ and JFK and LBJ did with Everitt Dirksen, Obama painted the Republicans like they were the evil in this world. He should of had a heart to heart talk with Bill Clinton to find out how he was able to work with the Republicans. Bill not only lost the house like Obama, but he also lost the senate which during Obama the Democrats still controlled. Obama had it easier than Clinton.

Racism, sure there is some of that around. But I personally think the intransigence of the Republican House has a lot to do with the way the president has scorned and painted them as evil. But that is only my opinion. To be sure the Republicans have returned that scorned and demonetization when ever they could. It is a two way street.

But I do wonder if this situation we now have in Washington would be the same if Dole and Daschle or Mitchell and Dole or even Baker and Byrd were still the leaders in the senate. I think we have truly entered an era where both parties are putting loyalty to party over country and the good of the party over the good of the nation.

Perotista said:

I think a lot of the animosity occurred because of the way the ACA was pushed through congress. But even so, one must remember December of 2010 in the lame duck congress in which both sides used compromise to get things done. The Republicans let DADT become history and the START treaty was approved along with an extension of the Bush Era Tax cuts. There was probably more but these are what I remember off the top of my head.

Then in January both sides dug in their heels. That is when the climate changed. In 2006 when the Democrats took back congress they defeated a lot of the more moderate Republicans and defeated a few more in 2008. Replacing them were more liberal hard core Democrats. Then in 2010 the blue dog democrats, the more moderate ones were the ones who lost. They were replaced by the Tea Party type Republicans. President Obama really didn't demonize the Republicans in his first two years either. He didn't need to with his huge almost super majorities he had in congress.

Also unlike Reagan who reached out across the aisle to Tip O'Neal, like Eisenhower did to LBJ and JFK and LBJ did with Everitt Dirksen, Obama painted the Republicans like they were the evil in this world. He should of had a heart to heart talk with Bill Clinton to find out how he was able to work with the Republicans. Bill not only lost the house like Obama, but he also lost the senate which during Obama the Democrats still controlled. Obama had it easier than Clinton.

Racism, sure there is some of that around. But I personally think the intransigence of the Republican House has a lot to do with the way the president has scorned and painted them as evil. But that is only my opinion. To be sure the Republicans have returned that scorned and demonetization when ever they could. It is a two way street.

But I do wonder if this situation we now have in Washington would be the same if Dole and Daschle or Mitchell and Dole or even Baker and Byrd were still the leaders in the senate. I think we have truly entered an era where both parties are putting loyalty to party over country and the good of the party over the good of the nation.

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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Very well said! :thumbs: It looks like the word "compromise" has become a negative one, and that does not bode well for our future. There are some things that should never be compromised, but those aren't what I'm referring to when I think about what is going on in DC. When ideology is the only determinate in what is done, at least half the people aren't going to be happy, which is what we're seeing. No one alive has always been right! Sad....

Perotista said:

I think a lot of the animosity occurred because of the way the ACA was pushed through congress. But even so, one must remember December of 2010 in the lame duck congress in which both sides used compromise to get things done. The Republicans let DADT become history and the START treaty was approved along with an extension of the Bush Era Tax cuts. There was probably more but these are what I remember off the top of my head.

Then in January both sides dug in their heels. That is when the climate changed. In 2006 when the Democrats took back congress they defeated a lot of the more moderate Republicans and defeated a few more in 2008. Replacing them were more liberal hard core Democrats. Then in 2010 the blue dog democrats, the more moderate ones were the ones who lost. They were replaced by the Tea Party type Republicans. President Obama really didn't demonize the Republicans in his first two years either. He didn't need to with his huge almost super majorities he had in congress.

Also unlike Reagan who reached out across the aisle to Tip O'Neal, like Eisenhower did to LBJ and JFK and LBJ did with Everitt Dirksen, Obama painted the Republicans like they were the evil in this world. He should of had a heart to heart talk with Bill Clinton to find out how he was able to work with the Republicans. Bill not only lost the house like Obama, but he also lost the senate which during Obama the Democrats still controlled. Obama had it easier than Clinton.

Racism, sure there is some of that around. But I personally think the intransigence of the Republican House has a lot to do with the way the president has scorned and painted them as evil. But that is only my opinion. To be sure the Republicans have returned that scorned and demonetization when ever they could. It is a two way street.

But I do wonder if this situation we now have in Washington would be the same if Dole and Daschle or Mitchell and Dole or even Baker and Byrd were still the leaders in the senate. I think we have truly entered an era where both parties are putting loyalty to party over country and the good of the party over the good of the nation.

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I guess I respectively disagree a bit here. I don't believe the animosity occurred because of the ACA. I mean come on... hard nosed politics has been the rule of the day since the beginning of the country. Heck, just recently do you remember "THE HAMMER".. and late night calls for votes and all that? I think what it comes right down to it... it boils down to this.

I think we have truly entered an era where both parties are putting loyalty to party over country and the good of the party over the good of the nation.

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honestly.. I think you are right to a degree but the loyalty isn't even really as much to the party as to the ideology. Certainly, you can't argue that shutting down the government was for "the good of the GOP".. it hurt us badly. shutting down the government was good for a few radicals that want to win their primaries and make names for themselves.
No.. the vitriol against Obama comes from a much deeper source... its so deep for some that it borders on lunacy. and its infected the party because even being reasonable about Obama... can title you a liberal and a Obama lover. Heck.. a portion of our party is calling conservatives like Crapo and Coburn rino's and liberals in sheeps clothing.

See.. I think what happened wasn't that in January both sides dug in their heels. My take was the democrats after the ACA.. the democrats simply had nothing left. They didn't compromise with the republicans.. they caved.. and that's the way the republicans saw it. I remember the Bush tax cut debacle. the democrats wanted to pass the tax cuts for everyone except remove some of the cuts for the wealthiest. The republicans played chicken and threatened filibuster and threatened to let them expire on everyone if they didn;t get the tax cuts also for the very rich. And the dems caved in. and so the whole tax cut was implemented. And unfortunately, I think this is what got the obstructionist policy going. The republicans saw that it worked AND not only that.. but since the party took the dems caving in as weakness... suddenly the very idea of compromise seemed to be a weakness. The democrats, exhausted from the ACA... running from that, losing the majority that they had,,, simply fell back and said.. "no more". and that's what happens as you allude to when the cooler heads get booted out of office.

polgara said:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Very well said! :thumbs: It looks like the word "compromise" has become a negative one, and that does not bode well for our future. There are some things that should never be compromised, but those aren't what I'm referring to when I think about what is going on in DC. When ideology is the only determinate in what is done, at least half the people aren't going to be happy, which is what we're seeing. No one alive has always been right! Sad....

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Quite right. There are a lot of things that do have support from both parties that could be brought up and passed. But neither party wants to give an inch to the other and hence you have what we have. It has become party over country for most of those in D.C.

jaeger19 said:

I guess I respectively disagree a bit here. I don't believe the animosity occurred because of the ACA. I mean come on... hard nosed politics has been the rule of the day since the beginning of the country. Heck, just recently do you remember "THE HAMMER".. and late night calls for votes and all that? I think what it comes right down to it... it boils down to this.



honestly.. I think you are right to a degree but the loyalty isn't even really as much to the party as to the ideology. Certainly, you can't argue that shutting down the government was for "the good of the GOP".. it hurt us badly. shutting down the government was good for a few radicals that want to win their primaries and make names for themselves.
No.. the vitriol against Obama comes from a much deeper source... its so deep for some that it borders on lunacy. and its infected the party because even being reasonable about Obama... can title you a liberal and a Obama lover. Heck.. a portion of our party is calling conservatives like Crapo and Coburn rino's and liberals in sheeps clothing.

See.. I think what happened wasn't that in January both sides dug in their heels. My take was the democrats after the ACA.. the democrats simply had nothing left. They didn't compromise with the republicans.. they caved.. and that's the way the republicans saw it. I remember the Bush tax cut debacle. the democrats wanted to pass the tax cuts for everyone except remove some of the cuts for the wealthiest. The republicans played chicken and threatened filibuster and threatened to let them expire on everyone if they didn;t get the tax cuts also for the very rich. And the dems caved in. and so the whole tax cut was implemented. And unfortunately, I think this is what got the obstructionist policy going. The republicans saw that it worked AND not only that.. but since the party took the dems caving in as weakness... suddenly the very idea of compromise seemed to be a weakness. The democrats, exhausted from the ACA... running from that, losing the majority that they had,,, simply fell back and said.. "no more". and that's what happens as you allude to when the cooler heads get booted out of office.

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I first noticed it during the ACA battle. The Democrats didn't use the hammer on the Republicans, they used it on their own party members. I called it threats, bribes and the whip. There was no doubt where the American people stood on the ACA when it was passed. Here are the poll numbers:

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the Senate passed it in November of 2009
CNN/Opinion Research 12/2-12/3 36% for 61% Against/Oppose +25
Rasmussen Reports 11/29 - 11/29 41% for 53% Against/Oppose +12
Gallup 11/20-11/22 44% for 49% Against/Oppose +5
Ipsos/McClatchy 11/19 - 11/22 34% for 46% Against/Oppose +12
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 38% for 56% Against/Oppose +18
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 35% for 51% Against/Oppose +16
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the House passed it in March of 2010
Bloomberg 3/19 - 3/22 38% for 50% Against/Oppose +12
CNN/Opinion Research 3/19 - 3/21 39% for 59% Against/Oppose +20
CBS News 3/18 - 3/21 37% for 48% Against/Oppose +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/19 - 3/20 41% for 54% Against/Oppose +13
Quinnipiac 3/16 - 3/21 36% for 54% Against/Oppose +18
Democracy Corps (D) 3/15 - 3/18 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12
FOX News 3/16 - 3/17 35% 55% Against/Oppose +20

So getting senators like Landrieu, McClosky, Pryor, Nelson, Begich, Hagan and the rest to go against what was probably 60% of the wishes of the people in their home state which they supposedly represented, was quite an accomplishment. But this was when I first noticed that heels were definitely dug in with the exception of December of 2010.

I think you are correct in much of what you say, in my opinion the Democrats still haven't recovered from the passage of the ACA. They have constantly defend it and delay much of its implementations past the next election and past the one after that. The majority of the American people are still against the ACA even 4 years after it initial passage. To use RCP numbers it is 42% for 52% still against.

From there it has been downhill. I think Reid and McConnell are the two worst leaders the senate could ever have. Reid does everything to include tabling almost all bills just to preserve his majority and McConnell filibusters everything in hopes of gaining the majority with governing the nation takes the 26th priority out of 25. Boehner I think would like to work with the president, but the tea party folks won't let him and he caves. Pelosi is Pelosi and she too fits right in with Reid and McConnell as far as everything they do is for party or as you put it, ideology. That is a very good point.

The Democrats I think regained their spine over the government shutdown last October which I think was one of the stupidest gambits the GOP ever did. The GOP needs to thank the ACA and President Obama for the botched roll out of the ACA or they would be the party losing a ton of seats come this November. I do think we are looking at this from relative the same glasses, but pointing to different events and instances as perhaps the cause. But nevertheless, I will always wonder what an Obama administration would have looked like and accomplished if he had talked to Bill CLinton and used some of his tactics he utilized to work with Republicans or to go around them.

But then again, Obama does not have Bill's gift for gab. Bill could say something and we the people would believe him. When he said, "I feel you pain," I know I believed him and I was a Perot backer. FDR, Reagan and Bill Clinton had that something special when it came to getting things across to the American People.

I think you are correct in much of what you say, in my opinion the Democrats still haven't recovered from the passage of the ACA. They have constantly defend it and delay much of its implementations past the next election and past the one after that. The majority of the American people are still against the ACA even 4 years after it initial passage. To use RCP numbers it is 42% for 52% still against.

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Well the dems were pretty stupid on handling the ACA. First off.. the good things in the ACA.. like no preexisting conditions etc...didn't come about until at least a year or more later. And the dems RAN from it.. which basically gave the republicans years to demagogue it. If the dems had stuck up and been in your face like... so you want insurance companies to be able to boot you off or refuse you for a pre existing condition. So you want to kick college kids off their parents insurance? So you want to see MORE lifetime caps on insurance? The republicans would not have been able to say much.
And actually that leads to another flaw in the Dems plan of retreat. They bargained that people really cared about that 15% of people without insurance. that it was that which made the ACA a big deal. When the reality is that most people do have to think of how government affects THEM. The dems should have hit all the things that helped a person that HAD insurance instead of crowing about expanding Medicaid etc.


But instead of sticking to the guns the dems gave us the opportunity to demagogue it to death. and the reality is that's why you see it recovering. Think about it... if it was so terrible and people really hated it... its popularity should be WORSE now that more is implemented not better but the truth is.. people are finding out the world isn;t ending.

The truth is.. the ACA will NEVER EVER be really popular.. and that's because it only noticeably affects a small number of people. Because most people aren;t sick and don't think about or even know about their healthcare insurance.

I don't think Obama has Bills charisma. I don't know about that because I have not had the opportunity yet to meet Obama... but I have met Bill Clinton (were talking speaking engagement, not like we are best buds) and I will tell you Bill could sell yellow snow to an eskimo. Heck, I dislike the guys policies and I was nodding my head to him.

but one big advantage bill had over Obama is this. Bill is white... so when he says " I feel your pain" .. its easier for the majority of americans.. who are white, to believe it. When Obama speaks.. there is always an elephant in the room which is that he's black and he's not what people identify with. PLUS he doesn't help himself by also speaking like a professor... that doesn't help either.

Liasson, Carlson and Krauthammer of the panel now up on Bret Baier, the best newsman in the business IMHO.
His hourlong newscast is must see for every DEM politico who wants to know what the GOP is thinking.
Krauthammer is currently hammering the President over everything he said today, especially on Ukraine.

The "we don't have a strategy" would seem to be a head-scratcher at first.

With such an open and free society,
I wouldn't be telling my plans to the outside world as the NYT recently did with our manned and un-manned flights over Syria.
Nor would I tell the GOP anything in secret since they will just go out and criticize Obama in front of the World .

Baier has a great by-line that is as professional and straightforward as he is.

I enjoyed the daily capsule on Senate races, today on South Dakota, with four candidates.

Both "major" candidates were shown in a positive and professional manner,
though I would have like to have heard from Pressler and the 4th candidate.

I've seen no other network do this and once again Baier gets big-time kudos from me .

Compared to Krauthammer, Tucker Carlson is actually tolerable today.

Earlier, clips were shown of Gov. Branstad of Iowa discussing how the President is damned if he does on immigration and damned if he doesn't.

Interesting to me is the news on Baier that McConnell has now backed off of shutting down the government in September.
He's good at reading the TEA leaves .

Shutdown bait--not bad from Baier over the President's use of exec. action on Immigration.
Nice joke from Krauthammer that he would use Valium spray on the GOP caucus if Obama uses executive action on Immigration.
Especially before the current budget runs out.

The GOP talking heads are clearly worried about losing their momentum over a shutdown or Impeachment .

Bret--fair, balanced and unafraid.
Now on to the chameleon Chris Matthews .

Kentucky Senate candidate Grimes tonight on Lawrence O'Donnell
I expect some tough questions on coal/EPA, the success of Kynect/ACA, whether she will vote for Reid--as Nunn has said she may not--
Lawrence can be very good on the economy .

McConnell's secret tape release may be more damning to him than Romney's was to him.
He pledged at a Koch fundraiser to place policy riders on spending bills, forcing a veto and shutting down the gov't.

Then today he talks out of the reverse side of his face saying he won't shut down the gov't.
While GOP Reps and Senators promise to shut down the gov't and just focus on Impeachment and I$$A's kangaroo courts .

Neil Diamond will be proud of this "Kentucky Woman" .

Here's more on the Kansas Senate race where Independent Orman is being likened to Angus King-I from ME.

The Kansas Senate race presents Democrats with an opening — and an awkward dilemma - The Washington Post

As we now know, it is entirely possible to have two run-offs the day after the election.
Both King and now Orman are open to caucusing with the party with the majority.
If there is no majority, then they are both willing to sit with both parties.
I would imagine that these fragile majorities will remain in flux, to the better of our Nation IMHO.

On RCP, the latest polls have Nunn taking the lead by 2 over Perdue and Carter only down 2 to Deal for governor. Since both races have strong Libertarians, such a Sarvis in VA, looks like both races will have run-offs on Jan. 6th of next year, the day after the Senate reconvenes .

Gardner from Colorado isw now running from his own GOP as well as his well-documented past.
He's now a "new kind of Republican". :lamo

Does this mean he no longer supports a personhood amendment now that he is running statewide,
versus being from a conservative congressional district ? :lol:

My thanks to Anagram for posting earlier that the very weak Dem from Kansas has dropped out.
Former Dem and now Indeopendent Orman, already endorsed by many Dems, will reap this harvest in Kansas.
A weakend GOP roberts from the primary will have more votes siphoned by a decent Libertarian--toss-up or lean Indy .

The latest two polls on RealClearPolitics show Nunn in the lead at +7 and +2, bringing the AVERAGE of all polls to Perdue down to +1.7.
This is certainly in the region that will force a run-off next Jan. 6th, a day after the Senate/House reconvene, due to the 50% rule.
Especially if the Sarvis-type Libertarian continues to poll at high single digits .

Real Clear Politics has now switched North Carolina back to Sen. Hagan from speaker Tillis.
Today's latest polls show Sen. Hagan up +6 and +1, for an overall average of +1.8.
GOPs are now down to gaining 6 seats, the bare minimum needed to take the Senate.
RCP is the premier source for polls on EVERYTHING everyday .

On Real Clear Politics, Michigan has now been moved to lean DEM as has North Carolina--Kentucky has now been moved to lean GOP.
They have it 46-46 with eight toss-ups.
With no toss-ups, RCP has it 51-49 GOP, with AK, AR, LA, GA and KS going to GOPs--a heavy lift right now .

Kansas Supreme Court to hear Senate ballot question next Tuesday.
Local reporters lean toward a quick decision to remove Taylor.

All three GOP incumbents in Kansas in big trouble, especially Gov. Brownback down 40-47.
TEAs are mad, moderate GOPs are mad and Indies and Dems will vote .