• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Controversy: Treating A Politicized Birth Defect

Ontologuy

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
6,770
Reaction score
1,936
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
There are more than 4,000 abnormal physiological and neuropsychological conditions now known to be birth defects, and as medical science progresses in its ability to accurately determine etiology, more abnormal conditions are being added to this list .. and medical scientists are laudably working hard to prevent as many of these birth defects as possible.

Medical science's attempt to prevent one such birth defect, ambiguous genitalia (Ambiguous genitalia: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia), has however garnered more criticism than praise by gay and lesbian political groups because of the side effect of the hormonal treatment to prevent this birth defect: Medical treatment carries possible side effect of limiting homosexuality - Los Angeles Times
A hormonal treatment to prevent ambiguous genitalia can now be offered to women who may be carrying such infants. It's not without health risks, but to its critics those are of small consequence compared with this notable side effect: The treatment might reduce the likelihood that a female with the condition will be homosexual. Further, it seems to increase the chances that she will have what are considered more feminine behavioral traits.

The condition that is creating the birth defect of ambiguous genitalia in prenatal females is called congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH):
Congenital adrenal hyperplasia, caused by a defect in an enzyme called 21-hydroxylase, affects about 1 in 15,000 infants, and almost all newborns are screened for it. Undetected, the abnormality can make both male and female infants critically ill within a few weeks of birth because of an associated salt loss through the urine. The defective enzyme also causes a deficiency of the hormone cortisol, which can affect heart function, and an increase in androgens produced by the adrenal glands.

The treatment discovered to prevent the birth defect of ambiguous genitalia (but that doesn't actually effectively treat CAH itself) is to administer a hormone prenatally, the steriod dexamethasone, which itself is not without health risks.

But the controversy centers around the side effect of preventing ambiguous genitalia in females: that it also appears to prevent homosexuality:
Dreger and critics — which include the National Center for Lesbian Rights, Advocates for Informed Choice (an organization that works to protect the rights of people with intersex conditions), and some pediatric endocrinologists and parents of children with the condition — say far too little is known about the safety of the hormone, the steroid dexamethasone, when used prenatally. They say it should be used sparingly, in closely monitored clinical trials, or not at all. They're even more concerned that some doctors might tell parents that a reduced chance of homosexuality is one of the therapy's benefits.

A major subtext of the discovery of the side effect of this treatment preventing homosexuality is that homosexuality itself, an abnormally occurring condition, may have a similar cause and categorization. As presented in the OP of this thread -- http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/160480-homosexuality-birth-defect.html -- current scientific thinking on the etiology of homosexuality is that it is epigentically (not "genetically") inculcated in a seldom occurring hormonal malfunction not too dissimilar from that which can result in ambiguous genitalia, which would clearly make homosexuality itself a birth defect.

Now that political groups exist in support of sufferers of birth defects of many kinds, some to encourage prevention, others to encourage acceptance, these groups will have an affect on medical science efforts to prevent these birth defects.

Some political groups will be instrumental in creating funding for creating methods to prevent their associated birth defect and for improving on such treatments.

Other political groups will actually function to hinder progress in preventing their associated birth defect.

In this situation, gay and lesbian political groups are attempting to prevent the use of dex (dexamethasone) to prevent ambiguous genitalia because they're afraid dex will be misused to prevent homosexuality (do a Google search on "lgbt controversy ambiguous genitalia" for more links).

So ..

Do political groups hinder the progress of medical science in preventing birth defects?

Is it a bad thing that they do?

Is it a good thing that they do?

Should political groups get out of the way of medical science progress?

Or do political groups with an ideological interest in perpetuating a medical condition actually do a good service, like in preventing a rush to treat the condition with a perhaps dangerous/misused drug?
 
I don't think a treatment for a condition that is a legitimate risk for a child will be politicized.

A doctor using it for any other purpose is just asking to have his license revoked.

and no, it does not clearly make homosexuality a birth defect. You are making a causative leap which may not be justified. It's not a defect if there's no negative consequences, any more than blue eyes are a defect.
 
I don't think a treatment for a condition that is a legitimate risk for a child will be politicized.
But that is indeed what has happened -- gay and lesbian groups are up in arms about the treatment for ambiguous genitalia in prenatal females, saying that it reduces the incidence of homosexuality in females.

They are less concerned that the birth defect of ambiguous genitalia won't be prevented without treatment, or that the treatment, the steroid dex, has some health risks associated with its use, as they are that the incidence of homosexuality will be reduced.

As a result of their, arguably, misplaced fear, they're afraid that medical professionals will promote dex as a method of reducing the possibility the child will be gay, even though dex's really sole medical purpose in this matter is to prevent the birth defect of ambiguous genitalia.

It's most definitely being politicized.


A doctor using it for any other purpose is just asking to have his license revoked.
A doctor using dex for its primary purpose in this instance, to prevent ambiguous genitalia, can sell the client on dex by indicating that a side effect of dex is reducing the incidence of homosexuality, which might be sufficient to offset the client's concern about some of the health risks associated with the use of dex.

That shouldn't get his license revoked .. or should it?

What determines whether it's acceptable use in a parent's mind to take steps to prevent homosexuality?

Why would gay and lesbian groups specifically be up in arms about dex, why should they even care?

This political controversy is very real.
 
Second verse; same as the first. See 0:21:
 
and no, it does not clearly make homosexuality a birth defect. You are making a causative leap which may not be justified. It's not a defect if there's no negative consequences, any more than blue eyes are a defect.
As this thread I linked to in the OP here validates -- http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/160480-homosexuality-birth-defect.html -- the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality makes homosexuality an obvious birth defect.

It is merely your opinion that there are no negative consequences to homosexuality, an obviously erroneous presentation, one that this link -- http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/160480-homosexuality-birth-defect-49.html#post1061847410 -- and this link -- http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/160480-homosexuality-birth-defect-50.html#post1061848009 -- unconjecturably debunks.

The scientists presenting the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality are saying, in analagous effect, that it "has roots, a large trunk, branches upward, with leaves, blossoms, bears fruit, and loses its leaves in the winter".

So, yes, it's obviously a "tree" (analagously, a birth defect).

But if you say, "no, it could be a bush, or a shrub, or a fern, or a plant", I would naturally respond, "you've got to be kidding!", and understandably so.

Regardless, my post here, and yours to which I replied, illustrates the controversy created when new state-of-the art science or medical treatment changes our veiw of reality, such as presented in the OP, and is thus germane to this thread.

Some will accept, others will object .. and discussion ensues, discussion that is best for everyone in its ability to get to the truth, and that discussion, or relevant points of view, should never be censored based on arbitrary ideological preference, mob bullying, or imagined need for "image protection".

Otherwise we regress to the damage-control behavior of the Church 500 years ago, when it harrassed the scientists who factually presented that the Earth is epliptically round, not flat, and that it reovolves around the Sun, not vice versa, contrary to what the Church doctrine could handle and accept.
 
Awww, Ontologuy, are your genitalia ambiguous?
 
I don't think a treatment for a condition that is a legitimate risk for a child will be politicized.

A doctor using it for any other purpose is just asking to have his license revoked.

and no, it does not clearly make homosexuality a birth defect. You are making a causative leap which may not be justified. It's not a defect if there's no negative consequences, any more than blue eyes are a defect.

What if they did find a single mutated gene that caused homosexuality and there was an inexpensive way to 'fix' it? Would it be considered a defect? Would homosexuality then be considered a 'choice'?
 
Wait so liberals are ok with a women choosing wether the baby lives or dies but determining it's sexuality is to far?
 
So - don't treat for this potentially fatal condition because your kid might not turn out gay?

Seems like a falsely constructed concern, honestly - without any true support.
 
I'll bet that there isn't one, single thing you can name that there aren't at least 5 groups that have taken up its "cause". That's what people do. Choose something obscure, created a tax-free "non-profit" to "do something about it", create publicity, get donations, pay themselves salaries, contract their services to friends etc. etc.

Here's a good example:
The Obscure Organization is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation that promotes community and creativity through technology. We provide free resources and training to people and organizations hoping to advance their use of technology in non-commercial creative works and community-building efforts.

Business as usual. Most of us don't give a rat's ass.
 
What if they did find a single mutated gene that caused homosexuality and there was an inexpensive way to 'fix' it? Would it be considered a defect? Would homosexuality then be considered a 'choice'?

Homosexuality is never a defect. It doesn't cause any actual problems. Something which causes no problems is not a defect.

If there were some way to change a person's sexuality, it is only a "choice" if the person who might have their sexuality changed decides it for themselves.
 
*sigh* America's obsession with sex and genitals... it never ends.
 
Homosexuality is never a defect. It doesn't cause any actual problems. Something which causes no problems is not a defect.

If there were some way to change a person's sexuality, it is only a "choice" if the person who might have their sexuality changed decides it for themselves.

Why would you say it is never a defect? Does mutation make it sound better?

Perhaps it is, we don't know if there is an acutal identifiable reason why some people are homosexual and some are not. I was just postulating that IF a specific gene was identified as the thing that made you homosexual and IF it was easily and cheaply treatable, would we consider it a birth defect (that is something that would normally be treated under insurance) or would homosexuality become a 'choice' made by someone who didn't want to be 'treated' for it?
 
Why would you say it is never a defect? Does mutation make it sound better?

Perhaps it is, we don't know if there is an acutal identifiable reason why some people are homosexual and some are not. I was just postulating that IF a specific gene was identified as the thing that made you homosexual and IF it was easily and cheaply treatable, would we consider it a birth defect (that is something that would normally be treated under insurance) or would homosexuality become a 'choice' made by someone who didn't want to be 'treated' for it?

The root of the word, dude. Defects = defective. Defective means something that impairs the individual. Homosexuals are not impaired, therefore it is not a defect.

Whether it could be considered a mutation would depend upon whether it's genetic, which we don't know with certainty right now. Mutations can be good, bad, or neutral.

There is no justification for considering homosexuality a defect. Like I said, it doesn't cause any actual problems.

I wouldn't say that someone choosing not to medicate something they're born with means that homosexuality itself is a "choice." Their choice was choosing not to medicate it.
 
So - don't treat for this potentially fatal condition because your kid might not turn out gay?

Seems like a falsely constructed concern, honestly - without any true support.
It's not fatal in the womb. Here's how it works...If a woman knows she and the father are carriers of CAH, then as soon as she knows she's pregnant, she can start with the dexamethasone. As soon as a Chorionic Villius Sampling (CVS) can be done, it is, in order to sex the child. If a boy, then the steroid treatment is stopped. If a girl, it continues while a genetic test is done. If negative, treatment stops, if positive, it continues.

If the mother does not opt for the dexamethasone or it wasn't known the parents were carriers, then the baby will be born with anywhere from a very big clitoris to a full penis.
 
The root of the word, dude. Defects = defective. Defective means something that impairs the individual.

No...something can have a defect/flaw that is inconsequential. Or the defect can be beneficial. Most mammals become lactose intolerent after they are weaned. But for many humans, there is a defect so the switch doesn't work like it's supposed to. And we, mostly Caucasians and West Africans, can still digest milk. But it's still a defect that allows us to eat all the ice cream we want.

Something can have a defect without being defective.
 
No...something can have a defect/flaw that is inconsequential. Or the defect can be beneficial. Most mammals become lactose intolerent after they are weaned. But for many humans, there is a defect so the switch doesn't work like it's supposed to. And we, mostly Caucasians and West Africans, can still digest milk. But it's still a defect that allows us to eat all the ice cream we want.

Something can have a defect without being defective.

Show me that something completely harmless is medically classified as a defect.

Something that deviates from the expected is NOT inherently a defect.
 
Any time someone suggests either preventing or curing homosexuality, the homosexuals go go directly to snit level orange.
 
Show me that something completely harmless is medically classified as a defect.
Besides lactase persistance? Color blindness. Polydactyly. For most cases, Hereditary elliptocytosis.


Something that deviates from the expected is NOT inherently a defect.
Never said it was. But something that does not function as it is supposed to is a defect. An extra finger is not just deviation from the norm, it's the result of a genetic malfunction. My son has a split uvula. Completely harmless, but a defect. Doesn't make him defective. Birth marks are a defect.
 
SVT can be very harmless.

It usually impairs you from normal exercise, and sometimes even normal work. It is the heart doing something wrong that causes impairment. Just because that impairment doesn't necessarily lead all the way to death doesn't make it not an impairment.
 
Besides lactase persistance? Color blindness. Polydactyly. For most cases, Hereditary elliptocytosis.

Out of all of those things, they are either not considered defects, or they are indeed a deficiency. Polydactyly, which is NOT medically considered to be a defect. It's considered a physical anomaly.

Color blindness has survival implications. Colors are often important to recognizing threats and safe foods. Hereditary elliptocytosis causes anemia. Try again.

Never said it was. But something that does not function as it is supposed to is a defect. An extra finger is not just deviation from the norm, it's the result of a genetic malfunction. My son has a split uvula. Completely harmless, but a defect. Doesn't make him defective. Birth marks are a defect.

No, it isn't. The fact that I never grew my last molars is not considered a defect. It's considered a genetic mutation -- and a positive one. Not all mutations are "malfunctions."
 
[qutoe]
Out of all of those things, they are either not considered defects, or they are indeed a deficiency. Polydactyly, which is NOT medically considered to be a defect. It's considered a physical anomaly.
I'm sorry, what Authority for "medically considered" are you citing? I can't find any official list of medical defects. What source are you using for what is considered which?


Color blindness has survival implications. Colors are often important to recognizing threats and safe foods. [/quote]
But itself is harmless. Being color blind in no way harms the individual. It can make somethings more difficult, but it does not impair functions.

Hereditary elliptocytosis causes anemia.
Not in all cases.


Not all mutations are "malfunctions."

Sure they are. By definition. But getting something wrong doesn't mean it's worse. Like lactase persistance.
 
It's not fatal in the womb. Here's how it works...If a woman knows she and the father are carriers of CAH, then as soon as she knows she's pregnant, she can start with the dexamethasone. As soon as a Chorionic Villius Sampling (CVS) can be done, it is, in order to sex the child. If a boy, then the steroid treatment is stopped. If a girl, it continues while a genetic test is done. If negative, treatment stops, if positive, it continues.

If the mother does not opt for the dexamethasone or it wasn't known the parents were carriers, then the baby will be born with anywhere from a very big clitoris to a full penis.

Yes - it's not fatal in the womb but might become so after birth.

Everything else is secondary.
 
It usually impairs you from normal exercise, and sometimes even normal work. It is the heart doing something wrong that causes impairment. Just because that impairment doesn't necessarily lead all the way to death doesn't make it not an impairment.

My wife has had it since birth and it doesn't effect her life much at all. It is considered a defect though, it's not like she caught it like a cold or strained her heart like thigh muscle.
 
Back
Top Bottom