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A Failed Socialist State

Competition is not the natural end product of capitalism however. Capitalism throughout history has shown a tendency to centralize. Furthermore, corporations have always had a tendency to conspire together. Whatever creates a profit will be the end result of a system that promotes only profit. Thus scarcity is good for capitalism.

Sorry but I don't ascribe to that belief system.
 
I'm someone who values the positive that any ideology brings.
There are some real, good things that are naturally imbued in socialism, cooperativeness/mutual aid being one.

I didn't say, socialism is horridly wrong,
No, I don't believe you did.

I even later argued that it could exist, if we can find a way to reduce/end scarcity.
Which for me, would be just dandy.
I think I've said this before, I believe that capitalism, enables the potential for socialism to exist.
Not because capitalism fails, but because it succeeds.
Well, I don't believe that any ideology can provide an entire and undiluted praxis for a state to implement. No socialist state could ever exist that didn't display some aspects of other ideologies, just as no capitalist state can exist without doing so too. Purity is for fanatics and dreamers.

Two points of contention though, with your examples.
Today, I'd argue that most developed nations run on a modified system, that the Nazi's used.
Perhaps, but I'd argue that few if any of those systems were Nazi inventions, nor that any of them emerged from Nazi ideology. You have an example that might convince me otherwise?

In fact, pre Nazi Germany (not the Wiemar republic, but the Prussian Empire) was the originator of many modern government functions.
The CSA never fully operated as an independent government, in my opinion.
I agree. Germany has given the world many ideas and examples.
 
Well, I don't believe that any ideology can provide an entire and undiluted praxis for a state to implement. No socialist state could ever exist that didn't display some aspects of other ideologies, just as no capitalist state can exist without doing so too. Purity is for fanatics and dreamers.

Definitely.
We just may approach things from different prospective.

I think the state should, generally, be the last choice for change, in terms of institutions (health care, some other things).
You may think the latter.

Perhaps, but I'd argue that few if any of those systems were Nazi inventions, nor that any of them emerged from Nazi ideology. You have an example that might convince me otherwise?

The bureaucracy was really formalized in Prussia and Nazi Germany.
AKA, Scientific management of government.


I agree. Germany has given the world many ideas and examples.

Yep, let me say that even though Hitler (and all his minions) were complete dip ****s.
There were some good things that came from Nazi Germany, rocket propulsion being one.
 
We'll have to disagree then.
To me it's a belief system, otherwise all there would be is single companies or cartels, for every industry.
And I don't particularly feel like debating this today.

Without anti-trust laws there would be single companies or cartels for every industry.
 
Definitely.
We just may approach things from different prospective.

I think the state should, generally, be the last choice for change, in terms of institutions (health care, some other things).
You may think the latter.
I suspect I'm as sceptical about the efficiency and desirability of big state government as you are. In fact, I'm pretty much against the concept of the nation state per se.

That's not to suggest that I believe that all the areas of activity that states often engage in are ones that I'd be happy to leave to private enterprise. I think that public ownership, enterprise and endeavour on behalf of and involving the direct participation of the people is essential, especially in relation to things that private enterprise are poor at or which might be severely damaged by the sole operation of the profit motive.

I think education, health, welfare, defence, law and order, environmental protection, to mention just six, require direct democratic oversight. I just happen to believe that modern liberal representative democracy on the nation state level is pretty much inimical to direct democratic oversight.

The bureaucracy was really formalized in Prussia and Nazi Germany.
AKA, Scientific management of government.
I'm not sure I'm knowledgable enough to know what innovations in that field can be credited to the Nazis. I'll take your word for it that some are.

Yep, let me say that even though Hitler (and all his minions) were complete dip ****s.
There were some good things that came from Nazi Germany, rocket propulsion being one.
Excellent costumes for S&M theme parties might be another. :2razz:
 
I suspect I'm as sceptical about the efficiency and desirability of big state government as you are. In fact, I'm pretty much against the concept of the nation state per se.

That's not to suggest that I believe that all the areas of activity that states often engage in are ones that I'd be happy to leave to private enterprise. I think that public ownership, enterprise and endeavour on behalf of and involving the direct participation of the people is essential, especially in relation to things that private enterprise are poor at or which might be severely damaged by the sole operation of the profit motive.

I think education, health, welfare, defence, law and order, environmental protection, to mention just six, require direct democratic oversight. I just happen to believe that modern liberal representative democracy on the nation state level is pretty much inimical to direct democratic oversight.

Then we aren't that far a part.
I'm more leery of democracy though.

To me, as the old adage says, "actions speak louder than words."
Both good and bad.

Democracy to me is words.
I think we should refine it more, how I don't know.
The one thing I think that can make it better is time.
Over time, democracy will improve, it just may be a long time.


I'm not sure I'm knowledgable enough to know what innovations in that field can be credited to the Nazis. I'll take your word for it that some are.

It's cool.
It may not be 100% accurate, but before they became public enemy #1, governments around the world were applauding their success.
Many adopted those customs.

Excellent costumes for S&M theme parties might be another. :2razz:

Awesome! :lol:
 
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