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WAR.... what is it good for?

Goshin

Goshin

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Edwin Starr said:
"WAR

what is it GOOD FOR?

Absolutely nothin', say it again...."
Click to expand...

1969 war protest song, for you youngsters.



So, what is War good for? Anything?


Quite a lot, actually.



It kept the Muslim expansion from completely overrunning Europe way back in the 13th or 14th century... all you ladies who don't wanna be covered in a tent to go out of the house can say 'thank you War'. ;)



It won America's independence from England and the tyranny of King George III. Unless you'd like to be ruled by another country 3000 miles across the ocean, that's gotta be good.



It won the state of Texas, briefly the Lone Star Republic, from Mexico. Given the condition of Mexico these days, let all the Texans say "Amen!" :)


It kept Europe from being plunged into the horror of rule by the Third Reich, the "thousand year Reich" as Hitler sometimes said, and probably saved millions from the gas chambers. Yer welcome.


It's the reason we don't call all of Asia "The Japanese Empire... by the Japanese, for the Japanese, and OF the Japanese". Yer welcome.


The threat of war kept the USSR from turning much of the world into a failed communist dictatorship.


War kept Saddam from taking over Kuwait and Saudi and the Strait of Hormuz, and ending up in control of a vast part of the world's oil, and a major oil export choke-point. If you drive a car, say thanks.


The threat of war has kept Taiwan free from Communist China.... yer welcome.


I could go on for some time, but I'll stop there. War may do a lot of damage, and not all wars are good wars... but without war, without the ability to wage war or threaten war, much that is good in the world would have perished under the iron heel of the conquerors and tyrants.



War... what is it good for? Quite a lot it seems....
 
War is politics.

If it's devoid of utility, we should return to prehistoric hunter-gathering and have done with it.
 
Goshin said:
War... what is it good for? Quite a lot it seems....
Click to expand...

The other old cliché you hear is "violence never solves anything." Actually it solves all sorts of problems as your laundry list shows. It turned Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan into peaceful, democratic nations, for example.
 
If we don't end war, war will end us.

H.G Wells.
 
Do we really need to argue politics against music?
 
It is a necessary evil...sometimes.
 
Actually, nevermind.
 
Wiseone said:
Do we really need to argue politics against music?
Click to expand...


Music is often an expression of the thoughts and mind-set of a significant portion of the culture. I've noticed in recent years that a lot of 60's protest songs are being played on pop stations that mainly draw a young audience.

This set me to thinking, and resulted in the answer to Mr Starr's question above.
 
I wouldn't say that war is good for "absolutely nothing," but also keep in mind that a lot of the situations that were described in the OP were the results of violence. So in a sense, the main purpose of armed conflict is to combat armed conflict itself.
 
LowDown said:
The other old cliché you hear is "violence never solves anything." Actually it solves all sorts of problems as your laundry list shows. It turned Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan into peaceful, democratic nations, for example.
Click to expand...


As the Heinlein quote says, "tell it to the city fathers of Carthage... no wait, you can't, they were all killed when the city was destroyed."


There's a reason why we fight wars, instead of having duels between heads of state or contests-of-champions or settling disputes via a chess match.... war is a decisive "verdict" when two nations have irreconcilable conflicts of interest, which no other form of contention can claim.
 
Goshin said:
1969 war protest song, for you youngsters.



So, what is War good for? Anything?


Quite a lot, actually.



It kept the Muslim expansion from completely overrunning Europe way back in the 13th or 14th century... all you ladies who don't wanna be covered in a tent to go out of the house can say 'thank you War'. ;)
Click to expand...

Hold up Goshin.

To be fair, the Ottomans are actually pretty liberal compared to the rest of Islamic states. I'm not sure about the Burqas, but nonetheless.
 
"war what is it good for" is a great bumper sticker. In a perfect world there would be no such thing as war, there would also be no such thing as, murder, rape, child molesting, wife beating, robbery, on and on and on. I have some very strong feelings on war, I think about war every time I look in the mirror and it haunts my dreams but it is a fact of life in this f**** up world we live in and as long as their are people and countries bickering over land, resources, politics and religion it is here to stay. The best answer is be the biggest baddest mother f***** in the world so that nobody dares have a war with you.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I wouldn't say that war is good for "absolutely nothing," but also keep in mind that a lot of the situations that were described in the OP were the results of violence. So in a sense, the main purpose of armed conflict is to combat armed conflict itself.
Click to expand...


Yes. The most moral reason for war is to prevent the use of force by another nation on others.

The thing is, there will never be a time when there is no threat of violence. There will always be those who will use violence as a tool, and who will only be stopped by violence. Those who hammer their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who do not.

As Kipling said...

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
Click to expand...
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Hold up Goshin.

To be fair, the Ottomans are actually pretty liberal compared to the rest of Islamic states. I'm not sure about the Burqas, but nonetheless.
Click to expand...


Relatively speaking yes... but the general principle still applies. There was an intention to rule Europe at sword's point and impose Islam.
 
Goshin said:
Music is often an expression of the thoughts and mind-set of a significant portion of the culture. I've noticed in recent years that a lot of 60's protest songs are being played on pop stations that mainly draw a young audience.

This set me to thinking, and resulted in the answer to Mr Starr's question above.
Click to expand...

Its a good song, sometimes I sing along in the car when it comes on the radio, now I now I'm a young adult and not an impressionable teenager but give people some credit just because they hear it in a song doesn't mean they are going to become absolute pacifists. Its not the only anti-war song I enjoy either.
 
all it takes is a little select editing for this:

"War. What is it GOOD FOR?

Absolutely nothin', say it again...."

To become this "War. Is it good" Absolutely. Say it again".
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Oh for ****s sake.

Did you not understand the quote? Do I need to break it down?
Click to expand...
Sorry. Deleted the post, when I saw you redact your statement. You must have responded before it went down.
 
Wiseone said:
Its a good song, sometimes I sing along in the car when it comes on the radio, now I now I'm a young adult and not an impressionable teenager but give people some credit just because they hear it in a song doesn't mean they are going to become absolute pacifists. Its not the only anti-war song I enjoy either.
Click to expand...


I love lots of those old 60s protest songs, including that one. I like to listen to some Rage Against the Machine too. Doesn't mean I agree with their politics, which I find laughable. :)

It was just a starting point for a discussion.
 
Goshin said:
I love lots of those old 60s protest songs, including that one. I like to listen to some Rage Against the Machine too. Doesn't mean I agree with their politics, which I find laughable. :)

It was just a starting point for a discussion.
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It makes me thing you take this music too seriously, and are just looking for something to be mad at. My mistake.
 
Wiseone said:
It makes me thing you take this music too seriously, and are just looking for something to be mad at. My mistake.
Click to expand...


I ain't mad. I be chillin'. :cool:
 
I dunno...

Just the other day, I was listening to some "Lil Wayne," and next thing I knew I had held up a liquor store and shot two thugs. Maybe anti-war songs have the same effect.
 
Goshin said:
So, what is War good for? Anything?
Click to expand...

Well, it's the ultimate arbiter in conflict of all kinds.
Along with pestilence and disease, it is one of nature's little over-population control methods.
It kills you, or makes you stronger.
It helps develop resolve and focus.

How's that, for coming from a semi-pacifist? :lol:
 
Violence is the solution to only one thing, other violence. It is always an evil, but sometimes it is a necessary evil. But it should always be a last resort.

StillBallin75 said:
I wouldn't say that war is good for "absolutely nothing," but also keep in mind that a lot of the situations that were described in the OP were the results of violence. So in a sense, the main purpose of armed conflict is to combat armed conflict itself.
Click to expand...

That. More eloquent than I was putting it.
 
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